Sanctum of Domination Race to World First

[Woobels]

This probably stings a bit for Limit too, or vice versa if Limit had won and Echo lost (before reset.) Bosses that are tuned like this feel kinda weird to me with how much power loot rng can give you nowadays (IE if Echo/Limit gets more of whatever variant of shards/corruption the next tier has will it decide the race?)

[BrioWoW]

Well, see you guys in 11 months for the next tier.

[Biomega]

The difference Shards make should be a warning to everyone who thought tier set bonuses were a good thing for the game.

Once they come back, you'll see what gear reliance is REALLY like.

[Toybox]

Watching Limit claim world 2nd with so much ease is just such a disappointment... What an absolutely terrible boss in every way. I'm curious as to who will round out the top 3/5, though!

[Bakis]

The difference Shards make should be a warning to everyone who thought tier set bonuses were a good thing for the game.

Once they come back, you'll see what gear reliance is REALLY like.

It was predictable, easier to balance and was less of a RNG due to being one source compared to legendaries, covenant, RNG sockets, shards.

It was way better back at the simple set bonuses. Might be less fun for the immediate reaction but lets not be fooled that Shadowlands offer any more or less min/max choices. However its pure shit to balance around. Its worse in every single metric.

My first thought that comes to mind is pyramid scheme.

[Bombercloner]

Watching Limit claim world 2nd with so much ease is just such a disappointment... What an absolutely terrible boss in every way. I'm curious as to who will round out the top 3/5, though!

I think that what you are describing is a sign of a good boss. If Limit played better they would have had WF before their reset. They had some bad luck, but they could have done it.

[Porimlys]

Watching Limit claim world 2nd with so much ease is just such a disappointment... What an absolutely terrible boss in every way. I'm curious as to who will round out the top 3/5, though!

all the players in echo and limit that ive seen seem to be pretty happy with the boss idk

[klogaroth]

The difference Shards make should be a warning to everyone who thought tier set bonuses were a good thing for the game.

Once they come back, you'll see what gear reliance is REALLY like.

Set bonuses were fine. There was counterplay to offset RNG in the form of master loot. You might not have got set bonuses on everyone, though at world first level the number of splits was usually enough to sort that out. Now the counterplay for the actual items is to get loads of people who can trade to help out, but that's not going to work for the entirely personal shards themselves.

Shards also sort themselves out relatively quickly, there's just this window at the very start of progression where getting a good 3 set is a huge deal. This has a larger impact the faster you want to clear the raid. For all but a handful of guilds, shard luck will be almost a complete non-factor in how long it takes them to beat Sylvanas.

You can see with the shard system though that it's designed around personal loot. There's a couple of options that let you unlock the unholy set bonus for example, you only need to put shards in 3 pieces to get it, and you can buy 1 slot on a vendor. I think the reason set bonuses went in the first place, and the reason there's a reluctance to bring them back in the same form, is that the old set bonuses do not mesh well with personal loot. They were a system designed for a game where people could choose their own loot distribution.

[kiramon]

Nope. You can say and feel however you want. Millions of people spectate esports and esports events every year. Most of them are adults. Nothing else needs to be said.

Of the 7.9 Billion people in the world, your millions are a drop in the bucket.

[kiramon]

I think that what you are describing is a sign of a good boss. If Limit played better they would have had WF before their reset. They had some bad luck, but they could have done it.

This is a good way to look at it -- they lost purely because they couldn't (see: Moonkins and Riku) pull it together. In fact, it probably is entirely on Sang for dying the 45.4% run that they wiped, which is perfectly legit and fair - and shows that they just couldn't do it in time. I don't even think Max would argue they deserved to win - they didn't prepare the same, and they were not on their A game the last few days before the reset. Especially the moonkins and Riku. I think Max's chat was ready to push riku off the edge of the platform by 130 AM EST last night lol Notably he had like 2 hours sleep - but not sure that means they deserved to win :P

[lockybalboa]

Why did the Limit guys call it a day before Echo's kill? They could've gotten the kill had they persisted. It's a world first race and surely they could do without a night's sleep ffs

[SinR]

Limit spent something like 280M gold on World Second. That shit’s cray.

Makes you wonder what Echo spent to get World First?

- - - Updated - - -

Why did the Limit guys call it a day before Echo's kill? They could've gotten the kill had they persisted. It's a world first race and surely they could do without a night's sleep ffs

Fatigue?

just... kinda throwing that out there...

[Toybox]

all the players in echo and limit that ive seen seem to be pretty happy with the boss idk

Fair enough, & tbf they'd know more than me since I'm just watching them play it, but it just seems so underwhelming compared to some of the goliath end bosses we've had in the past. The pullcount was very low for a final boss, which is undoubtedly good thing from a player POV given the length of the fight, but as a viewer it's all just kinda... Meh. I'd rather see a 400 pull shorter fight than a 200 pull slog, but YMMV.

Painsmith looked ridiculously fun though! The real MVP of the raid.

I think that what you are describing is a sign of a good boss. If Limit played better they would have had WF before their reset. They had some bad luck, but they could have done it.

I felt for them, but I'm glad at least one of the two guilds managed to drop it before the reset. Having it come down to that would've been horrible.

[EliWallach]

Why did the Limit guys call it a day before Echo's kill? They could've gotten the kill had they persisted. It's a world first race and surely they could do without a night's sleep ffs

They had a couple of good runs at it during the evening, especially towards the end, but they started to falter at the end with early deaths and such. They were riding an adrenaline high after some terrific pulls but the dc on what looked like the kill really took the wind out of their sails. You could see they were done. Even Max was clearly shot. Plus they had to come back in just a five or six hours for reset. Max made the call betting on the chance that Echo would fall short like they had.

[muto]

I'm pretty sure the skill has dropped considerably since the peak of WoW raiding (the world-first defeat of Algalon the Observer). Back then I was seeing guilds that were out of this world; they had such coordination that you couldn't believe that that was possible.
I remember we had tank in a hard core guild that was the best player I've ever seen personally in the game: I couldn't believe how good he was: but even him was a reject of Ensidia.

No. Players are a lot better now than they were back then because of better computers/mice/keyboards/headsets/internet, and addons are better than they were back then. Same with communication. Discord vs Vent. Also have better simming sites as well. Just way more resources to be successful. It’s like comparing a musket to a m-16.

[kiramon]

No. Players are a lot better now than they were back then because of better computers/mice/keyboards/headsets/internet, and addons are better than they were back then. Same with communication. Discord vs Vent. Also have better simming sites as well. Just way more resources to be successful. It’s like comparing a musket to a m-16.

Anyone who watched these world first races would've seen the constant updating of new Weak Auras along the way, literally breaking down the entirety of the fight as they went. And when they corrected/fixed timers, the entire fight became a different ballgame.

People that think players just got better, or the game got easier/was harder, just take for granted some of the advantages we have today that weren't rampant back then-- like giant text saying KEEP RUNNING lol

[Voidwielder]

Can you post the clip please?

[Smash Adams]

This is a good way to look at it -- they lost purely because they couldn't (see: Moonkins and Riku) pull it together. In fact, it probably is entirely on Sang for dying the 45.4% run that they wiped, which is perfectly legit and fair - and shows that they just couldn't do it in time. I don't even think Max would argue they deserved to win - they didn't prepare the same, and they were not on their A game the last few days before the reset. Especially the moonkins and Riku. I think Max's chat was ready to push riku off the edge of the platform by 130 AM EST last night lol Notably he had like 2 hours sleep - but not sure that means they deserved to win :P

Speaking of the Moonkins, Max had a comment when they interviewed him after and if I understood him correctly(I wasn’t totally paying attention), he was essentially saying the Moonkins were all playing a class they had minimal experience with and he chalked the mistakes up to them being thrown directly into the fire while still working the kinks out.

[Porimlys]

this just makes me really hype for next race, its so great having two guilds trade the title, hopefully someday three or four

[kiramon]

Speaking of the Moonkins, Max had a comment when they interviewed him after and if I understood him correctly(I wasn’t totally paying attention), he was essentially saying the Moonkins were all playing a class they had minimal experience with and he chalked the mistakes up to them being thrown directly into the fire while still working the kinks out.

Maybe - they mostly dual hunters, who you know... they didn't want to stack. ;P

Also, I think a lot of it is VENTHYR since he was screaming at the fact that Venthyr made them suck -- changed their mindset in playing so it was causing them issues compared to just hitting convoke.