How would you write the Jailer to be interesting?

[Tyrannica]

Many people complain that the Jailer is a completely dull and boring villain. And it is true. So how would you fix that? How would you make it even a little interesting?

Personally, I would just make the Jailer right. If all the Covenants (we will not touch on the other endless realms of the Shadowlands) had some kind of huge flaw that makes mortals suffer (we clearly see this in Bastion, mortals are forced to give up their memories and some of them become Forsworn) and which the Jailer would like fix, for which the Eternal Ones (who could not see the righteousness in his words and the imperfection of their own ways) drove him out. After the ages of imprisonment in the Maw, he could become much angrier, but the only thing he would like is to take revenge on the Eternal Ones for unfair exile and correct their Covenants. No desire for absolute power.

It would be a start to explain who he is, in flashbacks perhaps, what his realm looked like before his banishment how his followers looked like before everything changed, but there is still nothing explaining that, he just got a mawsworn armor and thats it.

He has less lore than the Thunderking...

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the bare minimum is putting in some explanation of why he is doing what he is doing or some backstory, instead of us having no clue and then getting some explanation after the fact maybe.

like honestly, some quest or cutscene of him actually being in chains was too much?

Blizzards pull a J.J. Abrahms direction, same story in latest star wars intallments, putting stuff that makes no sense into the lore without explanation is the new cool. Yet, it does not create that sweet feeling of mystery, but only confusion and offense.

[LilSaihah]

I don't know what the jailer's doing, what his plans are, or why he's doing anything.
For all I know he could be trying to go see his kids because he's been in space prison for not paying child support.

[Smallfruitbat]

Firstly, I would stop all of the 'morally grey' and 'its not who you think' or 'you'll be surprised to see what happens when...' teasing. It's not clever, plot twists only work if they aren't massively telegraphed and if they have a decent impact. The red wedding was so impactful because it came right out of nowhere and changed the direction of the story. Sylvanas burning down Teldrassil had people bitching about it because they tried to put some sense of mystery into what was completely obvious, it didn't work. A simple slip from Sylvanas about 'delivering souls to him' instead of 'killing hope' would have had the tin foil hat brigade speculating for years.

Second, bearing in mind how far ahead Blizzard work, I would have alluded to him A LOT. With prominent characters like Calia and Derek coming back as undead, there were opportunities for them to comment on the afterlife they were denied. Bwonsamdi could have been used, even Zappy boi with his near death experience.

Third, he was too visible too quickly. If they want this guy to be enigmatic, then don't show him. Let us find out about him from other sources, archeology would have been an ideal way to unearth details. I'd have had a Voldermort level of fear when NPCs spoke about him -to the point that they didn't even want to use his name. Jaina, Thrall and Baine could have spoken about the horrors of their captivity at his hands and almost pissed themselves when they thought about him. -The Mighty Green Jesus afraid of someone; they must be a serious deal.

[Newname1234567890]

Not making him like comically evil or making him totally comically evil but didn't convince Sylvannas to join him. Mixing the two is what's wrong.

Also we should have gotten a better idea of why his doing what his doing at launch or how it will effect us. It's hard to feel invested when a person we'd never seen before is doing stuff to lands we've never been for reasons we don't know yet. To feel invested we really need to know one of those three who, where or why.

[Smallfruitbat]

Following on from my last post.

Another option would be to have us interact with the Jailer from the beginning. I'm a pretty powerful entity, not two years ago, I was swinging the Ashbringer around. Have him tempt us to join the cause -offer us a deal. It's easy to interrupt the making of the choice but that at least tells us what Sylvanas thought she was getting out of the deal.

Character playing 5D chess just doesn't come across well in game because they take too much of the story away and hide it in books. The audio series for Legion was great. It was posted on the front page when you opened the battlenet app, you could listen as you were playing if you so desired. The Warbringers cinematics were quirky and fun, something that were easily accessible, again not a book that was entirely separate.

[qwerty123456]

I would have made the runecarver the Jailer.

[Oneirophobia]

The Jailer? Is that code for SyLvAnAs?

No, but seriously. The Jailer is just a plot device for Sylvanas, that much is clear. I would make him more interesting by giving him some actual f-ing personality, first and foremost. Also, his appearance. I would not make him a dudebro.

Lol, maybe he could be more like Hades from Hercules? That'd be a nice change of pace!

He was an old man in some of his concept work, I don't know why they went with "Mister Clean but evil" instead.

[Caerule]

I would have given him a cinematic at the start of the expansion, where we saw how he tempted Sylvanas. Along the lines of the Warbringer cinematic with Azshara and N'Zoth. Or Rastakhan and Bwonsamdi. Something where he is actually shown to have charisma and persuasive power. To explain the plan, and show just how he managed to convince Sylvanas with his lies; a character supposed to be cunning herself.

Keeping "The Plan" a secret, is something the story has greatly suffered from. As well as us having no interactions with the Jailer that show him to be this cunning deceiver. Or, you know, having any charisma whatsoever. We should have been shown how he was a persuasive liar. Right now, his betrayal of his promises to Sylvanas goes overlooked. And her refusal to see he was the bad guy until he literally spells it out to her, makes her look like an idiot. That could have been prevented.

In the end, I believe all the pieces were there to make this story good and satisfying. But as others have said, the Jailer is like Thanos, except Thanos got a whole movie where his story was explored, while the Jailer's character wasn't explored at all. I believe this could have easily been fixed. Every Covenant had a cinematic. And they were great. The Jailer should have had one too.

[masterjc]

1. tease him earlier
2. give him more appearance in-game
3. show his past
4. make him right (or at least partially right)
5. make him win and we have to continue after our failure. it would give lots of different look to remaining game. possible world rewamps. or reasons for faction changes and so on
6. make whatever he is after, really worthy and noble goal. so we can at least feel sympathetic towards him
so its so important that every shit he did was worth it.

kind of illidan

[Syegfryed]

He was an old man in some of his concept work, I don't know why they went with "Mister Clean but evil" instead.

To make him look like Thanos, wow is well know for getting things that make success and incorporating

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For all I know he could be trying to go see his kids because he's been in space prison for not paying child support.

Its funny because is true, they can totally put that out and would fit perfectly because we know shit

[Aucald]

I don't really understand the Jailer/Thanos comparison thing going on. A villain seeking various McGuffins is a tale as old as time, far older than Thanos - so the Infinity Stone and Covenant Sigil comparison thing isn't really a strong connection. Beyond that, Thanos and the Jailer have almost nothing in common as villains. Thanos seems himself as an antihero, a protagonist who is going to save the universe by doing something drastic but necessary insofar as he sees it. The Jailer has no such altruistic pursuits in mind, his goal is pure vengeance and toppling the current order to set himself on top. Thanos' entire plan was to do what he felt needed to be done and then retire into seclusion, sitting on his laurels as a hero if only in his own mind. The Jailer wants to conquer, and for all things to serve him - your standard and two-dimensional evil overlord portfolio.

TL;DR version: they're two extremely different characters whose only real connection is an overused "key to power" trope for basic antagonist roles.

[Feanoro]

@Aucald Daloser isn't going to make it as obvious as the Jailer having the Forever Glove and exact motivations. Blizz doesn't need Marvel/Disney suing them.

[Aucald]

Daloser isn't going to make it as obvious as the Jailer having the Forever Glove and exact motivations. Blizz doesn't need Marvel/Disney suing them.

Not really a matter of having the same McGuffins or "exact motivations," they don't even have similar motivations, personalities, or backstories. I'd say you could more easily argue that the Jailer is more a carbon copy of Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars as opposed to Thanos from the Marvel movies. At least Palpatine and the Jailer share a basic character outline: both are motivated by power and/or control, seek to conquer everything, and set themselves up as gods of their respective realities. Neither character has any of the anti-villain cred that Thanos has, both are just complete monsters in their respective franchises.

[Soon-TM]

Since current Blizzard writers love to borrow from Metzen's work (because they are either too incompetent or too lazy to create compelling, brand new characters), they could have taken a page or two from the first Starcraft and have written the Blue Man as a cosmic, more badass version of Arcturus Mengsk. I really liked him as a secondary antagonist, and an overall dickhead.

[Martymark]

Jailer should have talked to the player more and tried to get the player to join "team jailer". But I guess that would have required good writers to sell it...

[Super Dickmann]

Since current Blizzard writers love to borrow from Metzen's work (because they are either too incompetent or too lazy to create compelling, brand new characters), they could have taken a page or two from the first Starcraft and have written the Blue Man as a cosmic, more badass version of Arcturus Mengsk. I really liked him as a secondary antagonist, and an overall dickhead.

They did borrow from Metzen's work, just not the right parts. Nearly piece for piece in fact. The Blue Man and Amon operate on the same level of 'actually secretly planned this all along', having a poorly explained motive based around being forcibly imprisoned/turned into a Xel'naga and speaking entirely in dull one liners despite ostensibly being gods. He also had a character from before retconned into his minion, then turning good in a hackneyed story in Kerrigan/Sylvanas and an underling substantially more interesting than he is in Duran/Denathrius. Even the playable groups follow the same narrative arc from being political entities at odds with each other with implied interests and rivalries with each other to a squad of good guys tied together by superheroes.

@Aucald

Palpatine is also pure evil, but past that they don't really have much in common. Palpatine's hamminess, gleeful villain and scene-stealing is something the Blue Man can never manage and you're never in doubt about what he's after, which is more power, how he means to do it - with his galaxy spanning empire/brain and why, namely because he's an asshole and enjoys every moment of it. Palpatine is walking proof that a 100% evil villain doing his thing can be a blast. The Blue Man is a cautionary tale on how easily you can fuck it up.

[GR8GODZILLAGOD]

Actually giving him a personality to start. Honestly, if given a personality and dialogue that makes him interesting, entertaining, and or engaging when he's on screen, it doesn't matter much to me what his motivation is or if he's sympathetic. There are plenty of one-note villains in media that are great due to their personalities and dialogue.

[Aucald]

Palpatine is also pure evil, but past that they don't really have much in common. Palpatine's hamminess, gleeful villain and scene-stealing is something the Blue Man can never manage and you're never in doubt about what he's after, which is more power, how he means to do it - with his galaxy spanning empire/brain and why, namely because he's an asshole and enjoys every moment of it. Palpatine is walking proof that a 100% evil villain doing his thing can be a blast. The Blue Man is a cautionary tale on how easily you can fuck it up.

It wasn't an argument about which was the better character - the Jailer is simply not a good character and has none of the personability and perverse charm that Palpatine has. It's simply that the Jailer, as a character, shares more motivation with and general plot relevance of Palpatine than he does Thanos. Mechanistically speaking, Palpatine and the Jailer are cut from the same basic cloth, whereas Thanos is certainly not.

[Super Dickmann]

It wasn't an argument about which was the better character - the Jailer is simply not a good character and has none of the personability and perverse charm that Palpatine has. It's simply that the Jailer, as a character, shares more motivation with and general plot relevance of Palpatine than he does Thanos. Mechanistically speaking, Palpatine and the Jailer are cut from the same basic cloth, whereas Thanos is certainly not.

While the bald blue man thing he's got going is borrowed from Thanos visually, as is him seeking specifically 5 plot tools (ones not mentioned in 9.0 to add), hell even down to the hand motion he makes as he talks about how the maker's design, it is pretty much skindeep. If I had to liken him to any recent blockbuster villain it'd be neither Palpatine or Thanos but that guy from Thor 2. He also is pale, lives in a dreary black metal area, has his backstory hastily explained to tie him in with the backstory, wants to seize a plot device to kill everyone and what he wants and why is poorly explained.

Or really none of them, since what he really is as I laid out above is Amon from Starcraft 2 and he and the narrative he's a part of suck for all the same reasons.

[fakaroonie]

No dialogue from him whatsoever. Make him just pure evil, but no. " I must kill all, mwhaha ".

Imagine his presence without so many appearences and no dialogue. Terrifying.