Sanctum of Domination Race to World First

[Firefox72]

You realize <Pieces> got the world first for the hardest boss in the game right? There is definitely competition outside Echo and Limit. They're just much more efficient at maximizing splits, and gearing out. Without splits I think it would make for a much more interesting race.

To be fair ex Method/Echo threw that race. Credit to Pieces for being there and make full use of it but Echo got Uu'nat to like 2%, 2 days before the Pieces kill and just couldn't finish him off due to sloppy play. I know they didn't really take that race as seriously and i think some players joined late because of the MDI but it was still quite funny how they colapsed under the preasure at the end in that tier.

[Biomega]

You realize <Pieces> got the world first for the hardest boss in the game right? There is definitely competition outside Echo and Limit. They're just much more efficient at maximizing splits, and gearing out. Without splits I think it would make for a much more interesting race.

Uu'nat is a bit of an outlier, because nobody expected the boss to be that hard and the top guilds didn't seriously prepare for it - people had booked holidays or taken time off for other stuff, and so on. Plus it was such a short instance it wasn't really regarded as a "full" race like it would be on a new tier, and consequently they expected much less viewership etc.

That's not to downplay Pieces and their achievement, of course - they rocked it, no question. But it's still an outlier for various reasons, and shouldn't be held up as a representative example of pretty much anything.

A two-horse race has advantages and disadvantages. A simple 1v1 split can make things more exciting for viewers, because it's easier to keep track of a head-to-head as opposed to a bunch of contenders; and the viewership is more concentrated, so there's more engagement. The disadvantage is that it's less diverse, and that there's a risk of stale content as the "market" is divvied up amongst the big players. More competition keeps things fresh and interesting, and can serve as additional motivation.

Personally, I don't think more than two real competitor teams is realistic right now. There'll be a lot of second-tier competitors that make for an interesting #3-10 race, but to challenge either Echo or Limit for #1 would require unrealistic amounts of investment, recruitment, and talent. China looked promising at first in that respect, but doesn't seem to be delivering (yet?); release delay doesn't help this. On EU and NA, there probably aren't enough players anymore to fill the rosters of more than two world-first guilds - not because there isn't enough talent, but because people talented and motivated enough to perform at that level probably make a lot more money doing something else.

[muto]

To be fair ex Method/Echo threw that race. Credit to Pieces for being there and make full use of it but Echo got Uu'nat to like 2%, 2 days before the Pieces kill and just couldn't finish him off due to sloppy play. I know they didn't really take that race as seriously and i think some players joined late because of the MDI but it was still quite funny how they colapsed under the preasure at the end in that tier.

Method didn't really get affected by the MDI too hard. I just watched the replay, and they had all the usual players except Sco, which was probably better off anyways, only because Meeres, and Justwait are better. Oh Gingi wasn't there either I guess, that I can tell.

I know Limit got affected big time though, they got like world 20th or so.

[killver]

You realize <Pieces> got the world first for the hardest boss in the game right? There is definitely competition outside Echo and Limit. They're just much more efficient at maximizing splits, and gearing out. Without splits I think it would make for a much more interesting race.

That was a one time thing where a lot of things didnt go well for Method or Limit. Pieces is far from a world first contestant currently, of course this can change.

[sam86]

You appear to be very salty about something. Limit did win the past two tiers with more than the hour difference, not sure why you're discounting them. They played good, arguably Painsmith was bad for them but other bosses they did OK.

Anyhow, you're in the wrong forums if you think Blizzard is listening to you, go complain on the official forums instead.

you mean the same forums that everyone posted how bad AP grind is, and blizzard ignore it during Legion beta? Yeah at least this forum isn't supervised by a company run by CEO who think i'm idiot and just walking bag of money who needs to be scammed from

[Crushima]

Very happy the best build and region won the race

[epigramx]

best build

what do you mean?

[Kuruption]

Cool race, had high expectations after how difficult Painsmith was, and then it just dropped off after that, but I'm sure the guilds are happy they were done after one week.

Will be interesting to see if Limit makes any changes personnel wise or if it was just a preparation thing.

[gobarj]

That was a one time thing where a lot of things didnt go well for Method or Limit. Pieces is far from a world first contestant currently, of course this can change.

There was so much more to that tier as well, both guilds had people participating in the MDI. It was a 2-tier raid and probably not taken "as seriously". Pieces is an awesome guild in their own right, but I just don't think they are the S+ tier like Echo/Limit are today. They do sometimes do crazy stuff and kill bosses faster with interesting tactics.

I can't really speak for the current Method, they just raid a lot and copy tactics so it's not hard to see why they're doing decent in my eyes.

[CoconutPistache]

Cool race, had high expectations after how difficult Painsmith was, and then it just dropped off after that, but I'm sure the guilds are happy they were done after one week.

Will be interesting to see if Limit makes any changes personnel wise or if it was just a preparation thing.

Sylvanas requires perfect play to kill her the first week, the fight is hard and last 15 min. I don't know what people wants more, the fight was perfectly tuned, you just need perfect execution and that's what echo did. Having to wait reset to kill a boss is just boring. It is probably the cleanest and the most perfect play in wow history, true gaming right there.

Max said they didn't do as many splits as Echo because they expect the boss to die after the reset .... Great way to say US have big advantages after reset.

[Yunyuns]

So guys, who do you think will take the last stand on the podium ?

[Cren]

A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?

[Woobels]

A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?

There's a couple seconds of delay in some cases I think?

[Yunyuns]

A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?

They obviously don't use Twitch, it's not meant for this, there's too much delay (even 3 secs would not be bearable).

They maybe have a dedicated server they send their data flow to and Scripe/Max use VLC or whatever to view it.

[bloodwulf]

A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?

They are using some sort of third party application. After Limit got the kill yesterday, when they are handling the mount drop, you can see max right click on his screen to pull up a drop down menu that had all of the group listed and he switched to player who got the mounts view. The name of the exact application is unknown to me, but as an IT professional, we have a lot of applications we use in industry that allows viewing a screen in real time with no latency. The delay with a twitch stream or even a discord stream is too much to be useful in this situation.

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They obviously don't use Twitch, it's not meant for this, there's too much delay (even 3 secs would not be bearable).

They maybe have a dedicated server they send their data flow to and Scripe/Max use VLC or whatever to view it.

VLC is my guess. They have active stream capture to a back end device, and then use VLC to watch the stream.

[Gorsameth]

A bit curious about something. Does anyone know how people like Scripe and Max watch the others play when they lead them? Do they just watch the others live stream on Twitch? I mean there must be a tiny delay of watching that and then calling things out so they have time to react.
Or do they use some other thing to watch the team play or isn't it an issue like i would think it is?

basic screen sharing. The thing IT can use to watch your screen and help fix a problem.

Watching on Twitch is useless because your dealing with a build in delay of ~a couple dozen seconds.

[Cren]

They obviously don't use Twitch, it's not meant for this, there's too much delay (even 3 secs would not be bearable).

They maybe have a dedicated server they send their data flow to and Scripe/Max use VLC or whatever to view it.

They are using some sort of third party application. After Limit got the kill yesterday, when they are handling the mount drop, you can see max right click on his screen to pull up a drop down menu that had all of the group listed and he switched to player who got the mounts view. The name of the exact application is unknown to me, but as an IT professional, we have a lot of applications we use in industry that allows viewing a screen in real time with no latency. The delay with a twitch stream or even a discord stream is too much to be useful in this situation.

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VLC is my guess. They have active stream capture to a back end device, and then use VLC to watch the stream.

basic screen sharing. The thing IT can use to watch your screen and help fix a problem.

Watching on Twitch is useless because your dealing with a build in delay of ~a couple dozen seconds.

Ye thanks figured it was something like that. Active stream capture software makes a lot more sense!

[SirReal]

Will be interesting to see if Limit makes any changes personnel wise or if it was just a preparation thing.

Max had a subtle mention of personnel by saying that some of their best players were benched because of comp. So certain people that probably would have performed better maybe mechanically (i.e. personnel change) weren't in for the fight because of their class.

He also addressed preparation in that Limit did a half day of splits (~7 hrs) while Echo did a full day of splits (~15 hrs), and said he believes that also negatively affected them.

[facefist]

Blizzard nailed it with the tuning this time. Only one guild managed to kill in the first week. It needs to be either this way or then it should take 10+ days, the worst tuning would be if the boss dies instantly after re-clear (like Sylvanas did for Limit, but gladly Echo had the skill to take it down without extra gear).

[zortport]

There is an interesting 3rd place race going on right now. Method, BDG, Pieces are all around 50ish percent. It'd be very impressive if method or BDG got 3rd. I can't count how many times method survived a reorg at this point. Sco just makes it work every time