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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post

    You can't say to people who play Blood Elf Demon Hunters that they don't get content because they're not a Night Elf. The class is shared between just two races. The fact that the Silvermoon Elves shunned the Demon Hunters as "freaks" is enough of an interesting reason to also push for Illidari/Silvermoon Blood Elf racial content.
    You may have a point and can push for Illidari/Silvermoon content, I'm not against it, but I am also not saying they shouldn't get content because they're not Night elves, I'm saying night elves should get more content related to demon hunters. The examples of the frequency or dominance of night elves in the story of the class is just to drive this point home, not to deny blood elf stories. What makes you think I'm opposed?

    You reaction makes me think you're either not reading what I say or very poor at listening to what others say.

  2. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    So can the entire lore. But, we wouldn't want that, would we?
    Frankly, that depends. As I said, some combinations are pretty obvious and don't need much elaboration. Always a nice detail, not always a necessary one.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    "Long at the forefront of cutting-edge technology in Azeroth, the inventive gnomes are finally ready to break out the big guns. Their propensity for things that go "bang" and knack for high-tech weapons like rocket launchers, high-powered rifles, and death rays make them perfect candidates for hunting down prey."

    "Some blood elves become warriors — especially those seeking to be spell breakers. In the aftermath of the Third War, Kael'thas took a group of the strongest blood elf warriors and spellcasters and joined the Alliance against the Scourge (most of these later joined him in Outland). Although non-playable blood elf warriors do exist, most are in service of Illidan (or at least Kael'thas). There is also a group of blood elf and draenei warriors who form part of the Shattered Sun Offensive, the Shattered Sun Warriors."

    The rest is for players to speculate.

    Dwarven Druids would be Wildhammers, due to their relations to Gryphons and the wilds.

    A Kul Tiran Warlock would probably be of the Heartsbane coven, as they are the closest thing to a Warlock they have (Warlock is the male counterpart of a Witch).

    A Zandalari Warlock would be a Demoniac, a spellcaster who absorbs the soul of a demon.

    Goblin Shamans make deals with the Elements. a totally different approach from other Shamans.

    Orc Druids would come from their animalistic natures. In the RPG, they have the primalist class, a savage archetype who slowly turns into an animal.

    The chances for Mechagnome Druids are slim.

    Draenei Warlocks would probably come from the demonic Eredar.

    Tauren Rogues would be of the Grimtoten tribe.
    Yeah, Wildhammer druids, that's what I was getting at. Orcs introduced to druidism by taurens/trolls or even Goldrinn if we want to get wild.

    There's not much prerequisites to become a warlock. You just need to be a power hungry opportunistic little shit and find books of occult powers.

    Tauren Rogues could also simply be pirates.

    Mechagnomes are known to emulate life with machines, even mechanizing animals. As long as there's a mecha echosystem, you can nudge in mechadruids, lol. And who the heck wouldn't want to play an actual Transformer ?

    Draenei warlock... Well you would need the same kind of twist you got to introduce NE mages.

    And yeah. Goblin Shamans have a very singular approach to shamanism. Convoluted and wonky at best. Meaning you can have other weird approaches.

    But you know... You could also just chose the easy path. Take the Class Orders from Legion. Talk about how they opened ranks to everyone in order to favor cooperation. Melting pot of practices and cultures, and now everyone can be whatever.


    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    They can.
    Wouldn't consider it good, though.
    Well, it's not like we're not used to bread crumbs of lore anyway. And as I said, not every race-class combination needs a big ass explanation.

  3. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Indeed. This!

    Isnt boizzard aware that a lot of us feel this way and want to see better world and race development?

    Character development was exciting when classic was only about the world. But they switched to the other extreme without updating story arcs.

    Not every race needs a grand arc. Some can be light. But the heavyweights are Humans, Thalassian elves (blood/high/void) , Night elf kind (night elves and Nightborne) and undead. Judging by player population closely followed by Orcs and trolls before a gap to Draenei, Tauren and dwarves.

    But without a doubt if they made some of the lesser races nicer and more interesting they’d be more. Popular.

    If they improved Nightborne and night elf models and showed more of that race’s other aspects instead just focusing on one hero. I’m sure they’d be as popular as blood elves

    Can you imagine if half orca came and we had a partially lore relatable group of orcsninternixed with handsome half human features like Warcraft movie Garona - orc popularity would swell.

    Sigh. But then when they ignore some of the best fantasy aspects of even their popular races, can the less popular ones have hope?
    I think it works if they did the BFA route - do a full story of the newest races so that when the expansion concludes we're just adding more flavor down the line instead of abandoning entire broken kingdoms. BC tried to do this for BEs, but they only solved the addiction. Literally, nothing else about their situation was salvaged. Even the Nightborne have a reclaimed beautiful city and safe home.

    The Tauren needs something more than others, because I can't help but feel like the High Mountain are just the superior version of what our cows shoud've been.
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  4. #124
    Reforged Gone Wrong The Stormbringer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Yeah, the least they could do is use the actual sword to stab N'Zoth. Seemed such an obvious Chekhov's gun.
    Imagine this, if you will: Most everything that the fight leads up to us the same, however instead of the glowy beams shooting out into us and the Heart of Azeroth, the Heart of Azeroth shoots all its remaining energy into the area MOTHER and Brann are at. It then overcharges and shoots power down into the core of the planet.

    Pan to Silithus. The earth shakes and rumbles, and a massive, glowing ethereal arm rises out of the planet's crust, grabs the sword, and thrusts it forward into a portal opening into Nyalotha. Azeroth herself stabs N'Zoth with Sargeras' sword, and then the entire dimension explodes, launching all the players out and destroying the sword and N'Zoth all at once.

    Boom. The player still plays a big part, but it's not some dumb kamehameha beam attack, and Azeroth herself gets to make a cameo as her spirit lashes out against something trying to corrupt her, using a weapon of the enemy and destroying it too.

  5. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    You may have a point and can push for Illidari/Silvermoon content, I'm not against it, but I am also not saying they shouldn't get content because they're not Night elves, I'm saying night elves should get more content related to demon hunters. The examples of the frequency or dominance of night elves in the story of the class is just to drive this point home, not to deny blood elf stories. What makes you think I'm opposed?

    You reaction makes me think you're either not reading what I say or very poor at listening to what others say.
    Your not understanding what we're saying.

    We're talking about racial focus. Racial lore and bringing classes from those races so players can feel good about what they are playing.

    So if your a Blood Elf Demon Hunter, you are reminded, through quests with your Sin'dorei kin, why you chose the path you did. The events of the Third War, your craving for magic, fel magic, Karabor, the Scourge, Demons. Perhaps this then leads onto a quest in the Netherstorm for the Blood Elves and for Night Elves, you go to Shadowmoon Valley. You then meet with your Kaldorei/Sin'dorei kin when your at level cap, where you are tasked to help your people (since the focus is racial pride), in their endeavors.

    Your not made to feel less than a night elf and vise-versa and nobody gets "less" content to play as, just because you didn't pick x race. That's like saying Orc Shaman players get the most in-depth and more content because Orc Shamans are more famous in the lore, yet this is not the case because all we have to do is look at the Trolls, Tauren and Wildhammer Dwarves.

    This is all about racial pride and no matter what you are, this is about "Yes, I chose to play something cool" regardless of what it is.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-07-21 at 03:54 PM.

  6. #126
    Elemental Lord sam86's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arandomuser View Post
    yes i remember when during a sylvanas fight she gave us a critical theory lesson and answerring a pop quiz on feminism was a mechanic...her politics clearly has no influence on her work, i got news for you every dev on the team is left leaning, i guess its time for you to quit and play your japanese ethnostate developer game weebfantasy 14, and ive got news for you. go play something else..good advice in this situation
    1- they actually are, in fact i just discovered that now and will make a topic about it
    2- i'll never play another mmo, warcraft isn't a 'game' for me, it is a huge chunk of my life itself, i play it since i was 6 years old, i made a LOT of custom maps in wc2, played wc3 and sneaked to play at nights, for me i prefer that part of my life dies happy than be replaced by anything else, yeah died with a wimp sadly but better than just replace it, because i can't replace 30 years old memories

    unrelated not i didn't report ur post and didn't find it that offensive tbh, well it's up to forums manager i guess
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  7. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Your not understanding what we're saying.

    We're talking about racial focus. Racial lore and bringing classes from those races so players can feel good about what they are playing.

    So if your a Blood Elf Demon Hunter, you are reminded, through quests with your Sin'dorei kin, why you chose the path you did. The events of the Third War, your craving for magic, fel magic, Karabor, the Scourge, Demons. Perhaps this then leads onto a quest in the Netherstorm for the Blood Elves and for Night Elves, you go to Shadowmoon Valley. You then meet with your Kaldorei/Sin'dorei kin when your at level cap, where you are tasked to help your people (since the focus is racial pride), in their endeavors.

    Your not made to feel less than a night elf and vse-versa and nobody gets "less" content to play as, just because you didn't pick x race.
    I get what you're saying, but I'm still not denying blood elf demon hunters get something, I'm merely writing about what night elf ones should be seeing and getting. Even if I say more should be available of this class to the night elves, I'm not saying BElves shouldn't get something. the Blood elf demon hunter would be part of the Illidari adventure, which woudl most likely be in night elf related areas and themes..but not necessarily or limited.

    now they could split them, showing some activity in night elves and some with blood elves, I'm not opposed to that either. I'm also pointing out it is unlikely you'd get equal or more representation of demon hunters with blood elf lore than you would with night elf, just like it is unlikely you'd get more druid related content with Tauren than you would night elf - because of where the class lore is generally centred.

    Butt blizzard can choose to equally explore all the classes in each race setting. They could pick on the dominant ones instead too. If they were to go by the dominant ones, demon hunter will make it for the night elves but it won't for the blood elves, because they cut demon hunter involvement off from blood elves in TBC, whereas demon hunters continue to be involved with Night elven affairs throughout cataclysm and Legion.

    For dominant classes Night elves will definitely see:

    Moon priests
    Mages
    Druids
    Demon Hunters
    Hunters
    Rogues

    Blood elves will see:
    Mages
    Paladins
    Hunters

    Face it, rogues, demon hunters, death knights, warriors, priests and warlocks while present are not dominant focuses in the blood elf races portrayals.. nearly all the time you see blood elves and blood elf lore is referred to, it's with respect to Mages or Paladins and hunters. While they can be many more classes and even have some famous individuals in each (Valeera, Kayn, Kolithra, Shinfel Blightsworn) - they really have very little to no screen time as an institution amongst blood elves or relating to current blood elf matters.. but they are there

  8. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    SNIP
    Well, what you need to do is to bring all sectors in and the available classes and put them where they fit best.

    For Blood Elves, we've got the Magisters, Blood Knights and Farstriders.

    So within the Magister based questlines, you've got Blood Elf Mages and Blood Elf Warlocks
    Within the Blood Knight based questlines, you've got Blood Elf Paladins and Blood Elf Priests
    Within the Farstrider based questlines, you've got Blood Elf Hunters, Blood Elf Warriors and Blood Elf Rogues.

    Then you've got the external ones like Death Knight, Monk and Demon Hunter and the only one which would get any lore of it's own would be the Demon Hunters.
    Monks and Death Knights would likely have one huge shared questline, which would basically be Pandaren and Ebon Blade controlled, respectively.

    Now you mention that Demon Hunters aren't big in blood elf society - well, they're not big in night elf society either. Kor'vas and Jace are still around, but they have no interaction with any of the night elves of the alliance.

    Within the Night Elves, you've got:
    Sentinels - so you'll have Night Elf Warriors, Night Elf Rogues and Night Elf Hunters; this would be one set of quests
    Druids - so you'll have Night Elf Druids for their set of quests
    Priesthood - so you'll have Night Elf Priests for their set of quests
    Mages - so you'll have Night Elf Mages for their set of quests

    Again, like the Blood Elves, the Monks, Death Knights and Demon Hunters aren't big parts of the alliance night elf society (that's the focus here - no every single group of neutral night elves around the globe. That is what your playing as.)

    Demon Hunters will get their own thing, since they are the biggest separate class from the Alliance Night Elves, but night elf monks and death knights will follow the Pandaren and Ebon Blade Quests. They won't be driven by night elves or blood elves.

    Again - your not really understanding what we're getting at. Just because somebody plays a Blood Elf Warrior or Night Elf Death Knight, doesn't mean they shouldn't receive these racial-pride stories throughout the expansion. They will go into the sections that fit them the best. Yes, their will be crossovers, but that's fine.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-07-21 at 04:16 PM.

  9. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Well, the most recent information relating to that whole place is that the fel-green lights have gone out, but nothing more.

    So Demons aren't spawning from it, Nightborne aren't using it. At the current time, it's a dormant location.
    Again one of the many areas not updated. And evidence of poor world development.

    They write this as if the only thing that actually ever happens is what we are shown. If we are not shown somethign they basically fix it such that nothing has actually happened at all, the world has forzen. this is poor world development. I can understand the challenges of updating everything with all the chagnes.

    But to expect people to consider this a proper evolving sotry means that you have to admit that lots of things are happening that aren't necessarily shown or written about.

    If you can't show something, it would be nice to update it.

    I would recommend basically they release a series on each continent updated every expansion to tell stories and developments of how things have progressed


    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Actually, we do:
    Unlike the night elves, the shal'dorei do not appear to worship Elune. They, instead, revere the stars themselves, without naming a specific divinity. Nightborne priests seem to call to the stars to channel their magic.[8] For healing, the nightborne use chronomancy to rewind time, reversing the wounds rather than healing them in the traditional manner.[9]

    https://wowpedia.fandom.com/wiki/Pri...tborne_priests

    It's a different angle to take for Priests, as a whole, but if it makes the Nightborne stand out from the rest, I'm all for it.
    Please read what you quote and where the information comes from. That assumption is based on an Astral Farseer's operation, not all Nightborne priests. Augur's aren't mages, Farseers aren't priests they are compostie unique classes.

    Basically the writer of that article has jumped the gun to assume that this is what Nightborne priests do.

    No where does blizzard say Nightborne priests are Astral Farseers.

    Astral Farseers, like Star Augurs will not be unique to Nightborne either, they'd be a kladorei civilziaiton based thing too, with the chronomancy addition added.

    As I have stated many times, the Nightborne show use of Star and moon magic, like all kaldorei, so do the Moonguard - it's a racial tihng of the group that is related to kaldorei culture, it is not evidence of a priesthood order.

    That is a poorly linked evidence.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Not all Priests require "faith" or are "faith-driven." Case-in-point, Ren'dorei and Forsaken and now, Shal'dorei.
    Ren-dorei aren't priests, though they may have priests, priests haven't really been addressed for the ren'dorei. And elves do have faith. BLood elves, high elves, and I can assume void elves too, there's tend to be more philsophy based rather than worshipful of an entity being , but it is still faith based.

    And where is the evidence that forsaken priests don't have faith? They constantly talk about the shadow gudiing you - that seems very faith based to me.


    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    But we don't know, because even after the Fourth War, the Temple is dormant.

    Night Elves and Worgen have gone back to Kalimdor and live around Nordrassil and northern Kalimdor.
    Nightborne are still in Suramar.
    Dormant? It is still the Cathedral of Eternal Night, whether dormant or not, corrupted or not, anyway now the corruption is gone, it is still Elune's most holy /sacred temple. This is what it is referred to. Humans may call it the tomb because they relate to Aegwyn's actions, but the night elves know what it is, and the significance it has to them, this is why they call it the Cathedral of Eternal Night, not the Tomb of Sargeras.

    Humans call it the broken isles, night elves call it Suramar, because all those lands and more undersea are part of Suramar most of them come from. It's not hard to see different groups refer to the same thing differently.

    Was is told from the perspective of the human race, but occasionally we see insights from other races like elves, trolls, orcs etc.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    Well, what you need to do is to bring all sectors in and the available classes and put them where they fit best.

    For Blood Elves, we've got the Magisters, Blood Knights and Farstriders.

    So within the Magister based questlines, you've got Blood Elf Mages and Blood Elf Warlocks
    Within the Blood Knight based questlines, you've got Blood Elf Paladins and Blood Elf Priests
    Within the Farstrider based questlines, you've got Blood Elf Hunters, Blood Elf Warriors and Blood Elf Rogues.

    Then you've got the external ones like Death Knight, Monk and Demon Hunter and the only one which would get any lore of it's own would be the Demon Hunters.
    Monks and Death Knights would likely have one huge shared questline, which would basically be Pandaren and Ebon Blade controlled, respectively.

    Now you mention that Demon Hunters aren't big in blood elf society - well, they're not big in night elf society either. Kor'vas and Jace are still around, but they have no interaction with any of the night elves of the alliance.

    Within the Night Elves, you've got:
    Sentinels - so you'll have Night Elf Warriors, Night Elf Rogues and Night Elf Hunters; this would be one set of quests
    Druids - so you'll have Night Elf Druids for their set of quests
    Priesthood - so you'll have Night Elf Priests for their set of quests
    Mages - so you'll have Night Elf Mages for their set of quests

    Again, like the Blood Elves, the Monks, Death Knights and Demon Hunters aren't big parts of the alliance night elf society (that's the focus here - no every single group of neutral night elves around the globe. That is what your playing as.)

    Demon Hunters will get their own thing, since they are the biggest separate class from the Alliance Night Elves, but night elf monks and death knights will follow the Pandaren and Ebon Blade Quests. They won't be driven by night elves or blood elves.

    Again - your not really understanding what we're getting at. Just because somebody plays a Blood Elf Warrior or Night Elf Death Knight, doesn't mean they shouldn't receive these racial-pride stories throughout the expansion. They will go into the sections that fit them the best. Yes, their will be crossovers, but that's fine.
    They don't necessarily have to big in the society, it's how often they show up in the story of the race and related to the race.

    Demon hunters always show up in the story of night elves, they are there all through War of the Ancients when we follow Illidan's exploits, they are there with Azshara, Tyrande, Malfurion, they are there in WC3 through Illidan alongside the druids through Malfriuon, and the priests through Tyrande - night elf story.

    While like Highborne they aren't shown in classic as part of the Darnassians, they do show up as night elven groups of their own. In Cata when we see them they are mostly night elves helping in night elf areas as well as a few others. It's the same with the mage orders too, they are shown and written extensively about, but aren't part of the playable group for Wc3 and the first instalment of classic, some of them joining in Cata

    The point is they are mainly part of that story so you can't really say they have no involvement.

    And I'm not saying the illidari belong to the night elves, it's just part of that group strongly, so likely night elf stories and femon hunter developments are going to show up a lot more amongst the night elves, just like druid involvement tends to, and anything pre-sundering or Highborne related - including Nightborne is all tied to kaldorei stuff because it's part of it, just like void lves are part of the Thalassian story and the development of the high elves though they are their own group.

    Death knight are part of the undead story, a different faction from the forsaken, but related to that part of the story, when you deal with DKs you are going to be dealing with undeath stuff, the Lich king, necromancy etc, just like Demon hunters is going to involve demons and night elves, fel , the legion and the kaldorei.

  10. #130
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    SNIP
    I think your jumping guns a little too much here as well and trying to force us to see story that isn't actually there. That only sets you up for disappointment.

    I can't agree with something that isn't there. As far as I can see, Nightborne heal wounds through chronomancy - not through faith to Elune, who they couldn't connect with for 10,000 years.

    If the Nightborne were given their own racial pride class based stories, I'd personally go with:
    Nightborne Spellweavers - Nightborne Mages, Priests and Warlocks.
    Nightborne Duskwatch - Nightborne Hunters, Warriors and Rogues.

    Nightborne Monks and Nightborne Death Knights are the external race/class combos, so those quests take place with the Houljin Pandaren and the Ebon Blade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    They don't necessarily have to big in the society, it's how often they show up in the story of the race and related to the race.

    Demon hunters always show up in the story of night elves, they are there all through War of the Ancients when we follow Illidan's exploits, they are there with Azshara, Tyrande, Malfurion, they are there in WC3 through Illidan alongside the druids through Malfriuon, and the priests through Tyrande - night elf story.

    While like Highborne they aren't shown in classic as part of the Darnassians, they do show up as night elven groups of their own. In Cata when we see them they are mostly night elves helping in night elf areas as well as a few others. It's the same with the mage orders too, they are shown and written extensively about, but aren't part of the playable group for Wc3 and the first instalment of classic, some of them joining in Cata

    The point is they are mainly part of that story so you can't really say they have no involvement.

    And I'm not saying the illidari belong to the night elves, it's just part of that group strongly, so likely night elf stories and femon hunter developments are going to show up a lot more amongst the night elves, just like druid involvement tends to, and anything pre-sundering or Highborne related - including Nightborne is all tied to kaldorei stuff because it's part of it, just like void lves are part of the Thalassian story and the development of the high elves though they are their own group.

    Death knight are part of the undead story, a different faction from the forsaken, but related to that part of the story, when you deal with DKs you are going to be dealing with undeath stuff, the Lich king, necromancy etc, just like Demon hunters is going to involve demons and night elves, fel , the legion and the kaldorei.
    Look, again - your not understanding this.

    The big thing with this is having racial pride. I'm proud to play this race. This race/class combo is really cool and Blizzard make it sound really cool, regardless of whether your a Human, Blood Elf, Forsaken, Troll, Draenei - whatever.

    So when I talk about Demon Hunters, I'm not talking about who's better and what should be better showcased. That doesn't matter - the importance is for players to grow an attachment to the race and class they are playing. So, nelf demon hunters being the big "I am" is irrelevant to Mary Jones who plays a Blood Elf Demon Hunter. She wants to feel proud of being a Blood Elf Demon Hunter and the woes and strengths that her character has gone through. It's not racial pride if your telling her, "Well Mary - you should have rolled a Night Elf Demon Hunter instead, so there!"

    This isn't playing one faction or one race off against the other. This is about racial pride.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    Even that is off the pace. The Duskwatch are the Moonguard equivalent that went into the city to guard it, they are a mage army and this is what the game shows, they are magical, spellblades and other types. Battle mages, not hunters and warriors - we see Nightborne hunters, they have an entire piece. We even help one of them in 7.2 on the broken shore, and deal with them in Suramar zone.

    That's not to say they can't adapt versions for warriors and rogues, anything is possible.

    You'd actually have to show me what I'm trying to force. I'm largely stating what they've shown us, and then saying what i'd like to see. Whether it happens or not, trust me, I'm not that into it anymore to be disappointed, I've been disappointed enough a plenty.
    Listen to what I'm saying.

    Nightborne have these classes available to them.
    Warrior, Priest, Hunter, Rogue, Mage, Monk, Warlock, Death Knight

    Each of these (barring Monk and Death Knight, which are more class based), are given racial/class based quests so that somebody can feel proud of being a Nightborne Warrior or Nightborne Rogue or Nightborne Mage.

    What and who used to do what, is irrelevant. So, with Nightborne Spellweavers, you go through a journey with Thalyssra, Valtrois and Occuleth. As a Duskwatch fighter, you go through questlines with Silgryn and Victorie.

    This isn't about who's above who or who's better at what. This is about having pride in what you play as.
    Last edited by Tanaria; 2021-07-21 at 04:44 PM.

  11. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I think it works if they did the BFA route - do a full story of the newest races so that when the expansion concludes we're just adding more flavor down the line instead of abandoning entire broken kingdoms. BC tried to do this for BEs, but they only solved the addiction. Literally, nothing else about their situation was salvaged. Even the Nightborne have a reclaimed beautiful city and safe home.

    The Tauren needs something more than others, because I can't help but feel like the High Mountain are just the superior version of what our cows shoud've been.
    To be honest the way Sunwell ended really hurt the Blood Elves narratively and thematically, in the long run. Their main conflict and driving forces were resolved leaving them kinda derping around for the most part, unless Jaina needed a few punching bags. By far the most mainstream reminder of their homogenisation are the Blood Knights, whom at this rate are barely distinguishable from Silver Hand(They even ahve the Silver Hand flag in Orgrimmar).

  12. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Tanaria View Post
    I think your jumping guns a little too much here as well and trying to force us to see story that isn't actually there. That only sets you up for disappointment.

    I can't agree with something that isn't there. As far as I can see, Nightborne heal wounds through chronomancy - not through faith to Elune, who they couldn't connect with for 10,000 years.

    If the Nightborne were given their own racial pride class based stories, I'd personally go with:
    Nightborne Spellweavers - Nightborne Mages, Priests and Warlocks.
    Nightborne Duskwatch - Nightborne Hunters, Warriors and Rogues.

    Nightborne Monks and Nightborne Death Knights are the external race/class combos, so those quests take place with the Houljin Pandaren and the Ebon Blade.
    Even that is off the pace. The Duskwatch are the Moonguard equivalent that went into the city to guard it, they are a mage army and this is what the game shows, they are magical, spellblades and other types. Battle mages, not hunters and warriors - we see Nightborne hunters, they have an entire piece. We even help one of them in 7.2 on the broken shore, and deal with them in Suramar zone.

    That's not to say they can't adapt versions for warriors and rogues, anything is possible.

    You'd actually have to show me what I'm trying to force. I'm largely stating what they've shown us, and then saying what i'd like to see. Whether it happens or not, trust me, I'm not that into it anymore to be disappointed, I've been disappointed enough a plenty.

  13. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Mace View Post
    I've been disappointed enough a plenty.
    I mean lad, who isn't at this point.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by sighy View Post
    To be honest the way Sunwell ended really hurt the Blood Elves narratively and thematically, in the long run. Their main conflict and driving forces were resolved leaving them kinda derping around for the most part, unless Jaina needed a few punching bags. By far the most mainstream reminder of their homogenisation are the Blood Knights, whom at this rate are barely distinguishable from Silver Hand(They even ahve the Silver Hand flag in Orgrimmar).
    I agree the race was unnecessarily neutered but a light-arcane narrative could be interesting if they actually went anywhere with it. After MOP, they were at least able to pick up blood magic (as seen in BFA) so that's the closest we can get to the original grit. I think venthyr Kael'Thas is a good example of how they should be thematically. A little arrogant, a tad violent, and brimming with well-intended selfishness/fury. It's like how Gallywix is the perfect goblin.
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  15. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by DatToffer View Post
    There's not much prerequisites to become a warlock. You just need to be a power hungry opportunistic little shit and find books of occult powers.
    Which, not all races have.

    Tauren Rogues could also simply be pirates.
    There's nothing piraty about Grimtotems:
    "In The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm, there were Grimtotem assassins attacking Thunder Bluff, as well as technicians that set out bombs. There are also a number of Grimtotem mobs that use [Stealth] and other rogue-like abilities, indicating that the infamous tauren rogues can be found amongs their ranks."

    Mechagnomes are known to emulate life with machines, even mechanizing animals. As long as there's a mecha echosystem, you can nudge in mechadruids, lol. And who the heck wouldn't want to play an actual Transformer ?
    Prince Erazmin's comment about Druids:
    "I’m surprised to hear that you are open to such ideas. I’ve always said that nature often needs to be pushed along, but I would have wagered that you’d disagree.

    That said, I’m unsure how permanent modifications would interface reliably with your malleable biological components. Unless you’re willing to take large risks, I would recommend starting with ingestible modifiers.

    If those succeed, move onto small, superficial attachments that can be removed without risk if your body reacts poorly.

    <Prince Erazmin appears lost in thought>

    This is a truly puzzling postulate."

    But you know... You could also just chose the easy path. Take the Class Orders from Legion. Talk about how they opened ranks to everyone in order to favor cooperation. Melting pot of practices and cultures, and now everyone can be whatever.
    Which homogenized the different class factions into a singular one. Yeah... that's not uniqueness.

    Well, it's not like we're not used to bread crumbs of lore anyway. And as I said, not every race-class combination needs a big ass explanation.
    Accepting less and less is what eventually downgrades the lore in the first place.

  16. #136
    I want a massive time skip since a straight story reboot is out of the question. Have us come back from Shadowlands and a few hundred years have passed. It's time to retire the old cast. They've been horribly butchered and the status quo needs a major shakeup.

    With the introduction of Threads of Fate in the game and giving people alternate ways to level alts, I'd really want them to change up the leveling experience. I've never played FFXIV, but from what I've seen and heard, it focuses much more on storytelling in their game and makes the leveling experience feel more like a story campaign. Then Threads of Fate can be used for those who don't want to repeat it for every alt they have.
    Quote Originally Posted by choom View Post
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  17. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Rozz View Post
    I agree the race was unnecessarily neutered but a light-arcane narrative could be interesting if they actually went anywhere with it. After MOP, they were at least able to pick up blood magic (as seen in BFA) so that's the closest we can get to the original grit. I think venthyr Kael'Thas is a good example of how they should be thematically. A little arrogant, a tad violent, and brimming with well-intended selfishness/fury. It's like how Gallywix is the perfect goblin.
    They had Blood Magic even in WoD sort of, altho to me it was kind of superficial and never dove into the implications. Just gave them the Mogu Blood Golems, which they got in the Isle of Thunder campaign.

    YEah, i agree on the KAel'thas example. Blelves were at their best, when they were the prideful, vainglorious and somewhat hedonistic edgy bastards. It's not really a nishe anyone else filled since. Nightborne did check quite the few of the boxes tho... From the Elisande faction...

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Which, not all races have.
    No, but Azeroth does. And those races are on Azeroth so...

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    There's nothing piraty about Grimtotems:
    "In The Shattering: Prelude to Cataclysm, there were Grimtotem assassins attacking Thunder Bluff, as well as technicians that set out bombs. There are also a number of Grimtotem mobs that use [Stealth] and other rogue-like abilities, indicating that the infamous tauren rogues can be found amongs their ranks."
    Why are you fixated on Grimtotem ? Tauren pirates also exist here and there. Rogues have a pirate spec.
    I'm saying you don't have to solely rely on the Grimtotem tribe to have your Tauren Rogues.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Prince Erazmin's comment about Druids:
    "I’m surprised to hear that you are open to such ideas. I’ve always said that nature often needs to be pushed along, but I would have wagered that you’d disagree.

    That said, I’m unsure how permanent modifications would interface reliably with your malleable biological components. Unless you’re willing to take large risks, I would recommend starting with ingestible modifiers.

    If those succeed, move onto small, superficial attachments that can be removed without risk if your body reacts poorly.

    <Prince Erazmin appears lost in thought>

    This is a truly puzzling postulate."
    Not sure what is your point, but thanks for dumping lore I already know.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Which homogenized the different class factions into a singular one. Yeah... that's not uniqueness.
    You can preserve a unique feeling if you do it right. Paladin and Priest Class Orders were not really done right, so you kinda lost the uniqueness of the different racial interpretations, yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Accepting less and less is what eventually downgrades the lore in the first place.
    Not too sure about that. The constant retcons of a lore that was not flexible enough to allow smooth integration of new content is what downgrades it, imo.

  19. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    It's like Marvel stuff. The beginning was really good, then they started doing space stuff, which was alright, then they started doing multiverse and time travel and so on, and it's dogshit.
    Just quoting this for accuracy
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  20. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Beloren View Post
    Exactly. @Candy Cough

    This system of wait you’re turn is just not satisfactory enough.

    Players want full race development in addition to whatever expansion story

    @userbame993720 and @ravenmoon are spot on. We need racial campaigns that ran like Legion order halls but more advanced.

    Or something akin to the depth of the covenant system but for races.

    But racial campaigns need to advance the race’s story. Not just related to the current expansion but deal with stuff on Azeroth that concerns them

    Replying to a much earlier post but... that.. could have some legs. Tie up all the old content, some "ok, this guy was lvl 23 last time" type "bosses" but... I'm sure they could add a little more flare somewhere.
    Tidy all that kinda stuff up so they have a spring cleaned world to build on.
    As it happens, they've tried tbc again, wrath again... cata again (world cleanse wise)

    This... might be "nice". Some nostalgia with older stories revisited and seen "on" if not "through".
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