Mega-Thread: Trump Focused Discussion

[Breccia]

\Biden: 'I trust vaccines. I trust scientists. But I don't trust Donald Trump'

Biden's in a tough spot, and it's not his fault.

Trump's FDA gave the Moderna vaccine emergency approval Dec 18, 2020. Biden was vaccinated on live TV three days later.

However, because the FDA waited that long -- not criticizing, it's a process that shouldn't be rushed for political reasons -- Biden should not, reasonably, have gotten the vaccine before the election.

Therefore, Republicans (classic and Party of Trump) can factually say Biden didn't get vaccinated, and factually say Biden attacked Trump for rushing things. It will be intentionally ignoring context and intentionally disingenuous, but they'll do it -- as shown already.

It's the same thing as Trump claiming credit for the vaccine while having little to nothing to do with it.

[some guy]

Keep em dumb so they vote for us. Seems to be working.

[Breccia]

They hypocrisy and gaslighting continue.

It's really not a partisan issue. I don't care what the polling says. At the end of the day, the vaccine is the vaccine. It's a human thing. Either you take it, or you don't. There are people who don't want to be vaccinated and you can't convince them

That's Rubio, trying desperately in public to ignore all polling and other evidence that point out that, yes, it is Republicans who don't trust the vaccine and can't be convinced. He can't say "Republican voters don't trust the vaccine because they're stupid and risking death" and still get elected, but he's also hesitant to say "the vaccine shouldn't be trusted" either. That second part is good news -- Rubio would say that, because his voters want him to say that, if it wouldn't get him in trouble elsewhere.

[Ivanstone]

and the big problem is, Biden can't say "It's fine if you don't trust me about the vaccine, just trust the scientists!"

Because republicans DON'T trust science anymore. Only 45% of repubs trust science these days.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/352397/...-diverges.aspx

In 1975 lots of racist social conservatives were still democrats and hadn't migrated over to the GOP yet.

[PrimiOne]

and the big problem is, Biden can't say "It's fine if you don't trust me about the vaccine, just trust the scientists!"

Because republicans DON'T trust science anymore. Only 45% of repubs trust science these days.

https://news.gallup.com/poll/352397/...-diverges.aspx

I use to think some years ago ( before the antivaccines movement got traction):"These stupid creationists and flat earthers and climate deniers are mostly just intelectual facade. They just pretend to not trust Science because that view aligns with their moral/political agenda and gives them a sense of belonging to a group but if their lives were at risk...they will run like crazy : 'Oh Please Science ...save me'".

Oh Boy how wrong I was. Even when their lives are at risk ( theirs and their neighbors and the economy...) they are genuinely stupid enough to believe there's a global and massive conspiracy of scientists to hurt them.

It's kind of a bitter feeling because I can tell what's worse: the intelectual misery or the moral misery of supporting positions you know aren't true.

So right now I'm just sitting waiting for the numbers to settle so I can throw them in the face of every single retard.
A "trailer" of it:

I'm from Spain. 52% full vaccinated. 622 cases per 100k ( 250 is extreme risk). 83% of the cases are non vaccinated people . 91% of hospitalizations are non vaccinated people .96% of ICU...non vaccinated people.

So yeah, waiting...patiently until we reach, I don't know, 70% or 80% population vaccinated ( we are lucky here, there's no such thing as a discussion about having a shot. Negationism is marginal)...so I can yell: "How can you , you involutionary step in the homo genre, you useless infrabeing , explain that almost every case with severe symptons comes from non vaccinated people??".

Tik...
Tak...
Tik...

[Kaleredar]

In 1975 lots of racist social conservatives were still democrats and hadn't migrated over to the GOP yet.

I’d also argue that, in the 1970s, the face of “science” was represented in a large part by large chemical companies (DuPont, Monsanto, etc) and other corporate entities who were in the throes of having all of their insidious, polluting practices exposed, which may explain why the liberal democrats at the time might have been skeptical of science as an institution.

“Science” these days comes from a much more academic standpoint and not nearly as much from a corporate one, which explains why conservatives distrust it now: they can’t understand a motive that isn’t centered on profit.

[PhaelixWW]

I’d also argue that, in the 1970s, the face of “science” was represented in a large part by large chemical companies (DuPont, Monsanto, etc) and other corporate entities who were in the throes of having all of their insidious, polluting practices exposed, which may explain why the liberal democrats at the time might have been skeptical of science as an institution.

That's doing a great disservice to the likes of NASA and the space race. I can't think of a more epitomizing triumph of science than the moon landing in '69, and that ethos definitely carried over through the 70s. There's a reason why commercials, for example, referred to things as "space-age materials" for the next 20 years.

[Kaleredar]

That's doing a great disservice to the likes of NASA and the space race. I can't think of a more epitomizing triumph of science than the moon landing in '69, and that ethos definitely carried over through the 70s. There's a reason why commercials, for example, referred to things as "space-age materials" for the next 20 years.

Sure, but things like the ban of DDT, lead paint, and restrictions on asbestos all happened in the 70s, which likely means that the tenor of the conversation about science and who we should trust when it comes to it was going through a major shift. Ie, we should trust people at nasa and in colleges and schools, and not the people at Monsanto. But you’re going to have a few distrusting people along the way.

[PhaelixWW]

Sure, but things like the ban of DDT, lead paint, and restrictions on asbestos all happened in the 70s, which likely means that the tenor of the conversation about science and who we should trust when it comes to it was going through a major shift. Ie, we should trust people at nasa and in colleges and schools, and not the people at Monsanto. But you’re going to have a few distrusting people along the way.

Yeah, I'm not trying to suggest that the 70s were some high point for trust in science. I just thought your characterization was not the complete picture. Some contextualization was necessary.

[Benggaul]

Tuesday's report:

44,232 new cases; about 12k more than last Tuesday.

Top 5:

Fuck Florida (again over 8k according to worldometers).
California: 5,269 new cases; 9 deaths
Texas: 4,732 new cases; 25 deaths
Missouri: 1,992 new cases; still lying by omission
Arkansas: 1,875 new cases; no deaths reported

There were 10 states with over 1k cases reported today but I'm in no rush to go back to my old ways just yet. I'm still holding out hope that we can stay under 100k this time around...we'll see. Most of the South is at or approaching "High" risk levels. 9 states have a positivity of 10% or over, ranging from Arkansas and Texas at 10% to Florida at 13% to Nevada at 15%. Despite the high totals, California is still sitting at about 3% and New York is at around 1.6%. Gosh can't imagine what's making up the difference...

256 deaths is about 80 fewer than last Tuesday and brings the total to 625,363. I'm pleasantly surprised that it has gone down the past couple of days, though I'm not confident it will stay that way. Texas topped the list with 25.

Related news:

Trump Supporter Who Protested Against Vaccinations Dies of COVID-19--I'm sure we'll see more and more of these as time goes on. Dying a preventable death to own the libz.

COVID-19 cases in US triple over 2 weeks amid misinformation



Six employees at New Jersey hospital system fired after they didn't get a COVID-19 vaccine--Fucking AWESOME. Keep it up.

Stay safe, folks.

[Shadowferal]

Wheelie and the Chopper Bunch...damn that takes me back!

[Kaleredar]

Science is the reason for those changes and the massive health benefits they provided.

I understand that. I’m not saying distrust science.

I’m saying that the “face” of science in the 70s (and many decades prior) was one presented by large corporations and that, around the 70s, people began to figure out were focusing far more on profits than on things like human well-being.

Which would explain why otherwise liberal people in the 1970s may have been distrusting of science, because it was perceived as being represented by large corporations. Monsanto sponsored rides and attractions at Disneyland for God’s sake; Those corporations had made an effort to appear to be the authorities on science.

[Benggaul]

Oh! Oh! I nearly forgot:

DeathSantis downplays increase in COVID-19 cases

"It's a seasonal virus and this is the seasonal pattern it follows in the Sun Belt states," DeSantis told reporters at a press conference. He also said that he expects COVID-19 cases to decline next month.

DeSantis's remarks came as new cases of COVID-19 are on the rise, driven by the spread of the more infectious delta variant. Florida has emerged as the epicenter of the recent surge, with about one in five new cases nationwide coming from the Sunshine State.

It should be noted that he got the vaccine. And that he's somehow trying to say there's a "pattern" based off of two data points. Also, it should be noted that if you support this piece of shit--whether as Governor or as a future Presidential candidate--you are yourself a piece of shit. You know who you are.

[Edge-]

Oh! Oh! I nearly forgot:

DeathSantis downplays increase in COVID-19 cases



It should be noted that he got the vaccine. And that he's somehow trying to say there's a "pattern" based off of two data points. Also, it should be noted that if you support this piece of shit--whether as Governor or as a future Presidential candidate--you are yourself a piece of shit. You know who you are.

Aren't cases supposed to go down during the seasonal heat?

[Benggaul]

Aren't cases supposed to go down during the seasonal heat?

Also, there's been a wave...every season, I think?

[beanman12345]

I don't think it's an inability to accept or acknowledge the past, they just don't think there was anything wrong with it. They are not kidding when they talk about being "originalists." That's the order they are desperately trying to "conserve" and democracy is an obstacle to doing so.

- - - Updated - - -



Apologies if this already got posted, but: "Reports on DOJ’s declination created a great deal of outrage that Merrick Garland had declined to prosecute the case. Only, as an AP correction revealed, Garland’s DOJ hadn’t declined prosecution. Barr’s DOJ did."

And: "That is, the underlying record has been known for some time. The only thing new in the record, as far as we know, is that — after a bunch of Senators asked for an investigation into this — the Commerce IG agreed with John Roberts and referred Ross for prosecution, only to have Barr’s hyper-politicized DOJ — a DOJ that was itself caught making untrue statements to the District Judge in the NY case — decline prosecution.

Which makes it all the more curious that Commerce didn’t publicly release the report along with the letter. The report is done. Why not release it publicly, as past derogatory reports about Ross were released?

One more detail that may explain DOJ’s silence in response to this news. The original letter from a bunch of Senators requesting the investigation wasn’t addressed just to Commerce. It was also addressed to Michael Horowitz, DOJ’s Inspector General. There’s no sign of such an investigation on their site (and I have thus far gotten no response to a question about this from them) — but they don’t include all their investigations.

But these stories are only about what the result of the Commerce Inspector General investigation was, and how Bill Barr’s DOJ responded. They’re not about whether there was an investigation at DOJ, and what happened if that investigation ended under Merrick Garland. They’re not about what a DOJ that has put great emphasis on voting rights has done with all this."

https://www.emptywheel.net/2021/07/2...bur-ross-lies/

Yes, Barr didn't bring charges, however the statute of limitation on perjury is 5 years, this happened 3 years ago. So if no charges are brought, can't simply blame Barr, it's definitely on Garland too.

- - - Updated - - -

Tuesday's report:
Six employees at New Jersey hospital system fired after they didn't get a COVID-19 vaccine--Fucking AWESOME. Keep it up.

Stay safe, folks.

snipping the sad news but keeping the good news.

But more to the topic when's that second jab coming for ya? I know it's either coming up or i missed it.

[Poopymonster]

Oh! Oh! I nearly forgot:

DeathSantis downplays increase in COVID-19 cases



It should be noted that he got the vaccine. And that he's somehow trying to say there's a "pattern" based off of two data points. Also, it should be noted that if you support this piece of shit--whether as Governor or as a future Presidential candidate--you are yourself a piece of shit. You know who you are.

Yeah in a few months they'll die down in Florida.

[Benggaul]

But more to the topic when's that second jab coming for ya? I know it's either coming up or i missed it.

This Friday. I've been avoiding public transport like the plague (*ahem*) the past couple weeks because I didn't want to catch it right at the end, so I've been cycling to work even though my leg isn't really ready for it. I've been exceedingly lucky in that my accident happened when it did--I got to avoid most of the worst of it even though I'm an essential worker.

[Omega10]

Oh! Oh! I nearly forgot:

DeathSantis downplays increase in COVID-19 cases

It should be noted that he got the vaccine. And that he's somehow trying to say there's a "pattern" based off of two data points. Also, it should be noted that if you support this piece of shit--whether as Governor or as a future Presidential candidate--you are yourself a piece of shit. You know who you are.

I can't even figure out his motivation. He is hoping that all the deaths happen AFTER the summer tourism season is over so that when the deaths start piling up, the tourism industry will already have booked their profits?

[Benggaul]

I can't even figure out his motivation. He is hoping that all the deaths happen AFTER the summer tourism season is over so that when the deaths start piling up, the tourism industry will already have booked their profits?

I mean that's pretty much what he did last Summer--while covering up how many cases/deaths there were. I don't have any exact numbers but I'm sure tourism is the top earner for the state, so no doubt he'll do whatever he can to lure folks to their doom so long as they dump their wallets there beforehand.