Dragonflight Alpha/Beta General Discussion

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I'm not even close to rank 5, and I played daily. I must be doing something horribly wrong.

I guess the relic farm is a thing. I'm not even do that and I'm like you, playing daily.

[Raetary]

I'm not even close to rank 5, and I played daily. I must be doing something horribly wrong.

Even if you grind out all of Korthia each day, the research items are rng dependant.
Those who are already rank 5/6 just are lucky.

Some days i end up with barely 300/400 rep, other days i earn up to 1k and more.

[Revamp Man]

Even if you grind out all of Korthia each day, the research items are rng dependant.
Those who are already rank 5/6 just are lucky.

Some days i end up with barely 300/400 rep, other days i earn up to 1k and more.

you do get to choose research items from the vault...i would be further but ive actually gotten big upgrades this time around

[Dracullus]

I dunno, I feel more people were invested in the BfA story simply because it had more to work with.
I was adamant that Blizzard would not shoot themselves in the foot by having 8.3 be N'zoth focused, and I debated that at length both before and after.

With Shadowlands meanwhile noone is interested in discussing it because there really isn't anything substantial to discuss. And once the expansion loses inertia it's difficult to get it going again, especially when 9.1 is only a slight continuation of 9.0, there isn't really anything intriguing to discuss going forwards either. There isn't well known areas like Nyalotha or a potential Thunder Bluff or Teldrassil raid like BfA could have ended up with.

People are less interested, because connection to old story is too loose, and most of it is Sylvanas. They builded hatred for her for years and during climax didn't have guts to chop her head, which was potential cathartic moment expected by many. Also sadly Kel'Thuzad was barely a character (it's theme for whole WoW), but there is still hope for some Arthas.

BfA had potential to be best WoW story, even after Legion. All they needed to do:
- make war more dirty - Alliance doing bad stuff as well, maybe even manipulated to attack first
- full focus on war, no Old God stuff, whole "Azeroth is dying" would be just rambling of Magni without any proof until next expansion or 10.0
- Sylvanas would still be behind it, reveal would come at the end, let's say last raid would be massive battleground between Ally and Horde, after maaaany casualties
Sylvanas would draw souls or even start more mayhem and REEEE her way out.

[Edward Wu]

You gotta wonder from everything that's happened post-SL launch, if 10.0 will actually be massively different in design?

They might really go back to basics and put the cosmic story on the backburner for an expansion or two. People are always going to be split to some extent on what should happen, but I think there's visible community outcry and passion in several fairly well defined areas at this point:

- People want to go back to Azeroth
- People want a revamp of some kind
- People want the story to be toned down and slowed so it can make sense again
- People aren't enjoying the core game design of Shadowlands and want to go back to something more simple with less systems and less major borrowed power
- People want the community improved somehow, from fixing the boosting situation to fixing the general toxicity evident in WoW's playerbase.
- People want WoW to cater more to casuals in the endgame and not simply have the design nudge them toward either raiding, M+ or both

[Alanar]

BFA's story was absolute dogshit and the only people that were hyped for it either simply knew it was an Old God expac (Like me), or they wanted the old WoW feel back, which was obviously never going to be the case.

Doesnt matter, people were just way more active, way more popular characters in the backround and cooler places to visit that were very well known in lore. It was only later when more and more people realised the story was all over the place. I waited years for Rastakahn and Azshara for example. The old god feel was super backround stuff and not realy I cared about so no.

Shadowlands however was bad from the start and the future doesnt look interesting at all.

[Dracullus]

Doesnt matter, people were just way more active.

Who, players? During 8.1-8.1.5? It was definitely dead period, 8.1 was extension of 8.0 like 9.1 is on 9.0, so mostly raiders were active back then.

[Alanar]

Who, players? During 8.1-8.1.5? It was definitely dead period, 8.1 was extension of 8.0 like 9.1 is on 9.0, so mostly raiders were active back then.

Compared to now... its realy different. Forums, fansites and also in game activity. I mean new threads were still created daily. Its all less on those areas and you can feel and see it. Its not realy a question.

[Sondrelk]

Compared to now... its realy different. Forums, fansites and also in game activity. I mean new threads were still created daily. Its all less on those areas and you can feel and see it. Its not realy a question.

That was mostly on lore though, not to mention the discussion that wasn't lore was on how much they hated Azerite.

Discounting lore the engagement on forums is probably about the same.

[Lady Atia]

People are less interested, because connection to old story is too loose, and most of it is Sylvanas. They builded hatred for her for years and during climax didn't have guts to chop her head, which was potential cathartic moment expected by many. Also sadly Kel'Thuzad was barely a character (it's theme for whole WoW), but there is still hope for some Arthas.

BfA had potential to be best WoW story, even after Legion. All they needed to do:
- make war more dirty - Alliance doing bad stuff as well, maybe even manipulated to attack first
- full focus on war, no Old God stuff, whole "Azeroth is dying" would be just rambling of Magni without any proof until next expansion or 10.0
- Sylvanas would still be behind it, reveal would come at the end, let's say last raid would be massive battleground between Ally and Horde, after maaaany casualties
Sylvanas would draw souls or even start more mayhem and REEEE her way out.

That would have been horrible. The Old Gods/Aszhara part was the best of BfA lol.

[Dracullus]

Its not realy a question.

Of course it is, you would have to got numbers from SAME trusted source comparing these two periods. I don't see big difference in game, server I play is High during periods like these and Full during launches, servers I recognize as Full are still Full. But this is just anecdotal evidence as yours.

Only hard data we know are sales numbers for pre-orders+first day for each expansion, which is stable and in BfA/SL even growing (SL probably inflated by lockdown and Christmas release). If SL did some serious damage to game, that numbers will be significantly lower than usual 3.3M. But I hear "this time servers are dead, current expac is killing WoW" every expansion last 10 years. Every time people are as sure as you now.

Of course I'm aware Blizzard show numbers that make them look the best, but we simply don't have trusted sources. SE and Bethesda do the same, they show number of accounts created. Current FF spike is noticable, but this is hyped mostly by FF rabid fanboys and WoW haters, devs are much more tone down. If "FF has more players right now" was so obvious, they would release official current number of subs, even as one time thing. Big companies simply don't miss occasions like this.

And forum and game activity are complete separate. First, every year I see more activity on discords and wowhead than forums. Second, forums always get spike in activity where some controversy happens. So far SL was very boring in this field, cause it's not revolutionary expac, it mostly repair mistakes from Legion and BfA (and often turns out medicine is worse than sickness). Just look how activity rised when todays news hit internet.

That would have been horrible. The Old Gods/Aszhara part was the best of BfA lol.

It's like, your opinion, man. Imo variety is better, right now people ask for more grounded expansion for a reason.

[Kiivar86]

At least Alliance-side, BfA started pretty grounded.

We faced pirates, bandits, farmers defending their homesteads from quilboar, witches.

There was some old god stuff that popped up in Stormsong but there was plenty of variety.

[Nyel]

Compared to now... its realy different. Forums, fansites and also in game activity. I mean new threads were still created daily. Its all less on those areas and you can feel and see it. Its not realy a question.

I mean everybody can see that activity and interest in retail WoW right now is way less than it was during BfA. It's obvious everywhere, in forums, in social media and on streaming platforms. WoW during BfA never was as dead as it is right now and we just got a huge content patch. The problem is, you need the willingness to see it - and some are just lacking exactly that, they're not able to see the wood for the trees. Shadowlands after 8 months is as dead as BfA was after two years.

We had dozens of people posting in this very thread during BfA all the time. In the last weeks there passed several days were basically nobody was posting here. People just quietly left.

[Jamais]

I mean everybody can see that activity and interest in retail WoW right now is way less than it was during BfA. It's obvious everywhere, in forums, in social media and on streaming platforms. WoW during BfA never was as dead as it is right now and we just got a huge content patch. The problem is, you need the willingness to see it - and some are just lacking exactly that, they're not able to see the wood for the trees. Shadowlands after 8 months is as dead as BfA was after two years.

Every morning when doing Korthia dailies, there is at least 40 people jumping on every rare. LFG is full for m+, arenas and raids. Only RBGs pugging has fell dramatically since there is no incentive for PvE people to push it for gear now. My list of friends has 15ish people constantly playing WoW. When i check both US and EU wow forums, many threads are being opened daily across all parts of the game.

There is also this thing called summer and many countries have relaxed covid measures by now.

What I wrote is anecdotal, but so is your post. I would love to see concrete proofs.

[therumblings]

There is no purpose in fighting over anecdotal evidence, anyone's biased opinion can be pushed forward with it.

[Sondrelk]

At least Alliance-side, BfA started pretty grounded.

We faced pirates, bandits, farmers defending their homesteads from quilboar, witches.

There was some old god stuff that popped up in Stormsong but there was plenty of variety.

Alliance side BfA is pretty good in lowering stakes, especially now compared to how the Magni HoA started back in BfA.

You start as mostly just tagging along on Jainas ship, a bit of a stretch for a nobody, but assuming the baseline level of notoriety being what the player gets from Exiles reach it makes sense.
Then once there the most threatening thing that happens is the fleet of Kul Tiras being captured by Azshara.

Lowering the stakes way back is perfectly possible, as BfA proves. The trick seems to be to hold the stakes that low and still be able to fight important enemies at the end.

[Nagawithlegs]

The troubles with negativity and lack of action on community sites both have to do with the patch not being very big and the internet as a whole being incredibly negative for the past few years for a variety of reasons (tribalism, identity politics, bad socio-economic standards, quarantine, depression, etc)

The only thing that will solve it is a meaty new patch and expansion. As for the “nobody cares about the story more” this is wrong seeing as how many people are actively watching the story... otherwise they would have just dipped from the community completely.

And yes, “hate watching” is still being engaged in the story.

Elune cinematic happens next week and then we get the mystery final campaign quest two weeks after that. Those are the really only big points of interest and then it’s a matter of how soon they reveal 9.2 and/or the next expansion.

[Lady Atia]

Of course it is, you would have to got numbers from SAME trusted source comparing these two periods. I don't see big difference in game, server I play is High during periods like these and Full during launches, servers I recognize as Full are still Full. But this is just anecdotal evidence as yours.

Only hard data we know are sales numbers for pre-orders+first day for each expansion, which is stable and in BfA/SL even growing (SL probably inflated by lockdown and Christmas release). If SL did some serious damage to game, that numbers will be significantly lower than usual 3.3M. But I hear "this time servers are dead, current expac is killing WoW" every expansion last 10 years. Every time people are as sure as you now.

Of course I'm aware Blizzard show numbers that make them look the best, but we simply don't have trusted sources. SE and Bethesda do the same, they show number of accounts created. Current FF spike is noticable, but this is hyped mostly by FF rabid fanboys and WoW haters, devs are much more tone down. If "FF has more players right now" was so obvious, they would release official current number of subs, even as one time thing. Big companies simply don't miss occasions like this.

And forum and game activity are complete separate. First, every year I see more activity on discords and wowhead than forums. Second, forums always get spike in activity where some controversy happens. So far SL was very boring in this field, cause it's not revolutionary expac, it mostly repair mistakes from Legion and BfA (and often turns out medicine is worse than sickness). Just look how activity rised when todays news hit internet.



It's like, your opinion, man. Imo variety is better, right now people ask for more grounded expansion for a reason.

No, *some* people on the internet would like to be farmers in WoW, but that doesn't mean everyone would like to have a "grounded expansion snorefeast". Legion was the most beloved expansion in hindsight (maybe together with WotlK but that one has a huge nostalgia factor), and that one was far from "grounded" lol.

[Nyel]

There is also this thing called summer and many countries have relaxed covid measures by now.

What I wrote is anecdotal, but so is your post. I would love to see concrete proofs.

Wasn't the massive drop in MAUs not proof enough that retention rate is lower than ever before? Or do you think all the other Blizzard games are waning and only WoW is keeping the MAUs afloat?

Again, the summer argument is really silly. How is Final Fantasy XIV able to absolutely thrive and drown in new players right now during summer when summer actually causes a loss of interest and players moving away from their game?

[Nagawithlegs]

Wasn't the massive drop in MAUs not proof enough that retention rate is lower than ever before? Or do you think all the other Blizzard games are waning and only WoW is keeping the MAUs afloat?

Again, the summer argument is really silly. How is Final Fantasy XIV able to absolutely thrive and drown in new players right now during summer when summer actually causes a loss of interest and players moving away from their game?

Because of the anti-Blizzard and anti-WoW culture going on right now? XIV is the second biggest MMO and has marketable traits of things not found in WoW.

The second that WoW introduces a patch or expansion worth the attention of those taking a break from the game, they will more than likely be back. Just like WoD - Legion.