Another "I can't breath" death: Police Reform & Protests in the USA

[Edge-]

I do not know

If you don't know, and the cop doesn't know, then yes, that's violence.

do you resist being arrested after you committed a crime or a misdemeanor ?

You haven't stated what the individual in your hypothetical is being arrested for yet. I don't have further comment until you answer that.

[PhaelixWW]

I do not know, do you resist being arrested after you committed a crime or a misdemeanor ?

Wow, you're really bad at this.

[wunksta]

I do not know, do you resist being arrested after you committed a crime or a misdemeanor ?

So far, you've only shown that insulting the police is a misdemeanor under French law and even then I don't think it's an arrestable offence, only a fine.

[Endus]

Do you consider violence arresting someone ?

Arrest is, pretty much by definition, violence, in nearly every instance but a case where the perp walks into the police station and asks to be arrested.

Do I want those cuffs on me? No. The only reason I might not actively resist is because of the threat of additional, more severe violence if I do so.

The entire point of a police force is to effect violence in the process of ensuring the law is obeyed. That's what the "force" in "enforcement" means. That's why people talk of the State's "monopoly on violence".

This is basic frickin' civics, dude. And not civics unique to the USA, either, just basic political science stuff.

[wunksta]

Additionally, resisting unlawful arrest can be legally justified, although it's generally not wise and can be fatal.

[draynay]

Wow, you're really bad at this.

You don't have to be good to generate three pages of nonsense on this forum.

[Edge-]

https://www.chicagotribune.com/polit...bau-story.html

Police will be forbidden from using deceptive tactics while interrogating minors under a measure Gov. J.B. Pritzker signed into law Thursday, making Illinois the first state in the nation to ban the practice.

Yo, this was legal to begin with? How the fuck is it legal for cops to lie to minors like this?

[Howel]

https://www.chicagotribune.com/polit...bau-story.html

Yo, this was legal to begin with? How the fuck is it legal for cops to lie to minors like this?

That's actually really weird, seeing as usually we tend to protect minors, because they are minors, and hence we usually refer to their guardians for any major issues. But I guess that's why? If you don't have to get some kind of consent from a guardian, which I guess you don't have to in an arrest and interrogation, said person is no longer protected to the same extend?

It is weird as heck.

[Deus Mortis]

https://www.chicagotribune.com/polit...bau-story.html



Yo, this was legal to begin with? How the fuck is it legal for cops to lie to minors like this?

I found it interesting and so I looked it up real quick. Since if I am not mistaken you're also from California so some interesting stuff here.
https://cohendefense.com/can-a-juven...in-california/

Can police question a minor without parents in California?

The short answer is “yes.” Police officers can question your child without notifying you. Your child does not have a constitutional right to have a parent present when being questioned by police.

Can a minor be questioned by the police without a lawyer present?

I am also frequently asked whether juveniles can be questioned without a lawyer present. The answer depends on the child’s custody status.

If your child is not in custody

If your child is not in custody, the police can question them freely without advising them of their constitutional rights under Miranda and without having a lawyer present.

If your child is in police custody

As of January 1, 2021, California Senate Bill 203 broadens the scope of Welfare and Institutions Code section 625.6. Prior to January 1st, 2021, children aged 15 years or younger being held in police custody could not be questioned by police until after they consulted with legal counsel. The amended statute now applies that rule to all children aged 17 or younger.

If your child is in custody and under 18, they cannot be questioned by police until they consult with a lawyer in person, by telephone, or by video conference. This consultation cannot be waived by the minor. There is an exception that allows police to ask questions that they reasonably believe are necessary to protect life or property from an imminent threat, but the officer’s questions must be limited to those reasonably necessary to obtain that information. Failure to comply with this law will be considered by the court when deciding whether to admit the minor’s statement as evidence at trial, and the court must consider a willful violation of this law when evaluating whether the officer is a credible witness at trial.

It looks like this might be a common thing everywhere. I know detectives are allowed to lie out their asses in interrogations, so the law there probably does not say anything about the age and apparently it seems if the person is not in custody they seem to have free reign.

[jonnysensible]

anyone know where the vaccination rate of cops is posted. I saw NYPD only has a 43% rate, its a good way to spot what a far right cesspool the police departments are.

[Specialka]

anyone know where the vaccination rate of cops is posted. I saw NYPD only has a 43% rate, its a good way to spot what a far right cesspool the police departments are.

I would not be so sure to link vaccination rate with political affiliation. Any source to back your claim up ?

[s_bushido]

I would not be so sure to link vaccination rate with political affiliation. Any source to back your claim up ?

I don't know...evident reality?

This article mentions that peer pressure may be as much a contributing factor as political affiliation, but it also points out the obvious: your friends/family are pretty likely to share your political leanings.

In the time it took you to type "vaccination rate with political affiliation" you could have found the same information in google. Since I just copy-pasted that part of your post to do it...

[Muzjhath]

I would not be so sure to link vaccination rate with political affiliation. Any source to back your claim up ?

Because most studies and investigations done seem to link the two? The rightwing, espcially the further right, having eaten all the lies about it up whole-cloth. You pushing-water for the far right is probably not the look you want.

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...al-party-lines
https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pan...can-vaccinated
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...nations-491947
https://www.vox.com/2021/3/21/223421...esitancy-polls



There are other aspects as well, but with the NYPD I'd bet money on it's them being rightwing twats.

[Specialka]

Because most studies and investigations done seem to link the two? The rightwing, espcially the further right, having eaten all the lies about it up whole-cloth. You pushing-water for the far right is probably not the look you want.

https://www.ny1.com/nyc/all-boroughs...al-party-lines
https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pan...can-vaccinated
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/0...nations-491947
https://www.vox.com/2021/3/21/223421...esitancy-polls



There are other aspects as well, but with the NYPD I'd bet money on it's them being rightwing twats.

Asking questions is now pushing water. Sorry to not gobble everything you say at face value.

[s_bushido]

Asking questions is now pushing water. Sorry to not gobble everything you say at face value.

That moment when you unironically do the thing.

[Muzjhath]

Asking questions is now pushing water. Sorry to not gobble everything you say at face value.

You get these accusations thrown at you because you "what-about" practically everything that points to the frankly massive issue that US Police has with right-wing ideological violence and racism systematic issues.

Does correlation equal causation? No, but if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck maybe there is something too it. Yet you see the ducklike police and say "no-no. It's a swan!"

[Specialka]

You get these accusations thrown at you because you "what-about" practically everything that points to the frankly massive issue that US Police has with right-wing ideological violence and racism systematic issues.

Does correlation equal causation? No, but if it walks like a duck and sounds like a duck maybe there is something too it. Yet you see the ducklike police and say "no-no. It's a swan!"

Because I happen to know the word "nuance" which is clearly not in your vocabulary.

[Muzjhath]

Because I happen to know the word "nuance" which is clearly not in your vocabulary.

Nuance is good, however US PDs ought to have lost all your faith over just how bad they are. The whole thin-blue-line should be antithetical to all police working. As it is the same shit that they dislike among organized crime.
Yet they do it themselves.
They tamper with evidence.

They are also infiltrated to the highest levels by seriously bad actors.
And you go "but nuance!" And there is nuance. 40% of the NYPD are vaccinated. Most of the less corrupt cops are probably in that bunch.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

I would not be so sure to link vaccination rate with political affiliation. Any source to back your claim up ?

It is actually something thing you can do in the USA thanks to disinformation about the vaccines and COVID-19 spread by Republicans, I don't know if that is the case in other countries.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...covid-19-shots
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ng-real-world/
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the...es-is-growing/
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...accinated-poll

The short of it: Yes, you can fairly reliably predict someone's political affiliation by whether or not they're vaccinated. We have sufficient vaccine supply to reach herd immunity in the USA, we just aren't going to because the fucking idiots in the GOP decided to politicize the vaccine. The irony of it literally killing their voting base, and the fact that it literally is killing their voting base, seems to be something they've deliberately ignored.

[tehdang]

It is actually something thing you can do in the USA thanks to disinformation about the vaccines and COVID-19 spread by Republicans, I don't know if that is the case in other countries.

https://www.pbs.org/newshour/health/...covid-19-shots
https://www.washingtonpost.com/polit...ng-real-world/
https://www.kff.org/policy-watch/the...es-is-growing/
https://thehill.com/policy/healthcar...accinated-poll

The short of it: Yes, you can fairly reliably predict someone's political affiliation by whether or not they're vaccinated. We have sufficient vaccine supply to reach herd immunity in the USA, we just aren't going to because the fucking idiots in the GOP decided to politicize the vaccine. The irony of it literally killing their voting base, and the fact that it literally is killing their voting base, seems to be something they've deliberately ignored.

The effect size of the correlation is on the small side, so don’t go too heavy on “reliably predict someone’s political affiliation based on whether they’ve been vaccinated.”

Remember, blacks and Hispanics are vaccinating at a smaller rate than whites. If you grab a cluster of people with equal racial divisions, but without the ability to see or ask, you can “reliably” tell a persons race based on whether or not they’ve been vaccinated. Same KFF source. Which is to say, an 11% gap in averages is not enough to reliably predict jack shit

You’d be wrong ~46% of the time guessing political affiliation from equally sampled average R’s and D’s population, which is a far cry from reliable prediction. It’s just you’d be right more often than you’re wrong, just as with racial divisions.