Sanctum of Domination Ending cinematic

[Accendor]

I don't think anyone is talking "free pass" - unless that is code for "anything that isn't outright execution", which makes very little sense.

Just as little sense as the whole "genocide" accusation. She destroyed one island, with one big city on it, and during wartime no less. How does that rise to the level of "genocide" all of a sudden?

But in any event, redemption arcs are a dime a dozen in fiction. There's nothing special about Sylvanas in that respect.

Don't start the genocide discussion again. Blizzard themselves called it that, there is no need for you to try to relevate any of this.

[Eggroll]

The difference is in your examples most of the atrocities happened off screen to areas/peoples we had no connection with or were later reversed.

What they did in WoW was decimate the Alliance's second most popular race and raze a starting zone many of us had emotional attachments to, in fact, our first introduction to the world of Warcraft itself. I'm struggling to think of a villain who permanently destroyed something dear to me that I eventually came around to forgiving, especially as night elf fans have been given no catharsis with Sylvanas. She has, up to this point, gotten away with everything with no consequences, a clear conscience, and no "greater good" purpose to justify anything she's done.

You forgot to mention that the writers even involved the Horde as a faction and made Horde players cheer for genocide.

That's some moral lesson you want to teach your kids. GENOCIDE IS FUN - and whoever it happens to probably deserves it.

[alt-ithist]

Garrosh destroyed one island, with one big city on it and during wartime no less.
Sylvanas destroyed one island, with one big city on it and during wartime no less.

The difference is that the former gave the civilians time to clear the area before doing so.
There's a clear distinction between killing hundreds of armed forces and killing hundreds of armed forces, but then celebrating it by burning thousands of civilians alive.

Not defending the person you quoted or anything but didn’t Garrosh also capture those civilians to have them tortured in ogrimmar and used as target dummies?

[Ardenaso]

I don't think anyone is talking "free pass" - unless that is code for "anything that isn't outright execution", which makes very little sense.

Just as little sense as the whole "genocide" accusation. She destroyed one island, with one big city on it, and during wartime no less. How does that rise to the level of "genocide" all of a sudden?

But in any event, redemption arcs are a dime a dozen in fiction. There's nothing special about Sylvanas in that respect.

friendly reminder before Teldrassil: Astranaar, Silverwing Refuge, Auberdine, and Lor'danel were all down to the last civilian; and the Horde didn't stop at Teldrassil either as they went to hunt down the fleeing civilians in Azuremyst Island too

- - - Updated - - -

Not defending the person you quoted or anything but didn’t Garrosh also capture those civilians to have them tortured in ogrimmar and used as target dummies?

not just Theramore citizens, but Darkspears too - his own people as the warchief of the Horde

just imagine Garithos not only having Kael'thas and his men executed but also capturing the Blood Elven women to be brought down to some secret Dalaran Dungeon to be done with by the Lordaeronian troops before getting tortured to death

[sighy]

The difference is in your examples most of the atrocities happened off screen to areas/peoples we had no connection with or were later reversed.

What they did in WoW was decimate the Alliance's second most popular race and raze a starting zone many of us had emotional attachments to, in fact, our first introduction to the world of Warcraft itself. I'm struggling to think of a villain who permanently destroyed something dear to me that I eventually came around to forgiving, especially as night elf fans have been given no catharsis with Sylvanas. She has, up to this point, gotten away with everything with no consequences, a clear conscience, and no "greater good" purpose to justify anything she's done.

I don't have confidence in the current writing team turning this around either, especially as they've already set the stage to waive everything she's done with the (weak) excuse that her soul was split.

At least Night Elves didn't lose any notable characters and get some wierd light undead idiot thing to replace them, which shouldn't even exist since it is established light burns undead and causes them a great deal of pain. (Ofc talking about Calia Menethil) On top of losing the starting zone and seeing their race's most central character be heavily retconned multiple times to suit a narrative that has her randomly abruptly break character all the time.

Imagine if say Malfurion betrayed the Night Elves and the Aliance to work with Xavius to become the NightMalfurion or something dumb like that, because of reasons never revealed until the story is basically over, if that. You don't know his objective, motive, stakes or any such thing over the course of like 2 expansions, where the first one focussed on demonising him as much as possible.



At this point i just kind of hope they sweep it under the rug, as he working on the inside to make it a war we can win, instead of slow hidden suffocating scheme. Tying it as a sort of spy thriller game of shadows sort of deal. Wouldn't be great or anything, but it wouldn't be completely asinine and allow her to claim ownership of the actions, whilst displaying agency and all that.

[Vladier]

Alright, she said: “You cannot let him reach the”. As she pronounced “the” there should be a Vowel next word. Sepulcher has a consonant at the beginning. So either it is Azeroth or Ulduar.

Neither Azeroth nor Ulduar are pronounced with an article, since they are proper nouns. Also, even if a non-zero article were appropriate, "the" has only one pronunciation, disregarding accents.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Neither Azeroth nor Ulduar are pronounced with an article, since they are proper nouns. Also, even if a non-zero article were appropriate, "the" has only one pronunciation, disregarding accents.

I don't know, I have read somewhere that when the comes before a vowel sound, we pronounce it as a long "thee". When we wish to place emphasis on a particular word, we can use "emphatic the" [thee], whether or not the word begins with a consonant or vowel sound. I might be wrong. I really hope I am because it's clear I don't want the Jailer to attack Ulduar. That would really suck having planet without Moon and Stars.

[Lane]

You forgot to mention that the writers even involved the Horde as a faction and made Horde players cheer for genocide.

As per usual, they were going for cheap shock value and then act surprised players haven't been on board with the story or interested in Sylvanas since they took it too far back in the BfA pre-patch.

At least Night Elves didn't lose any notable characters

I would've happily made the trade of Malfurion for Teldrassil. No, we've just had to deal with Tyrande and her impotent Night Warrior arc which, aside from a brief scuffle with Sylvanas, amounted to a lot of nothing. Now she'll follow suit with the rest of the Alliance in forgiveness. Not to mention the aforementioned Malfurion being utterly useless and the lunacy of newly risen night elves, like Delaryn and Sira, siding with the Horde, that was also fantastic. -_-

I'm biased towards Alliance, obviously, as a long time NE player/fan but, yeah, the story since War of Thorns has been abysmal for everyone.

[Eggroll]

As per usual, they were going for cheap shock value and then act surprised players haven't been on board with the story or interested in Sylvanas since they took it too far back in the BfA pre-patch.



I would've happily made the trade of Malfurion for Teldrassil. No, we've just had to deal with Tyrande and her impotent Night Warrior arc which, aside from a brief scuffle with Sylvanas, amounted to a lot of nothing. Now she'll follow suit with the rest of the Alliance in forgiveness. Not to mention the aforementioned Malfurion being utterly useless and the lunacy of newly risen night elves, like Delaryn and Sira, siding with the Horde, that was also fantastic. -_-

I'm biased towards Alliance, obviously, as a long time NE player/fan but, yeah, the story since War of Thorns has been abysmal for everyone.

"At least Night Elves didn't lose any notable characters" Yeah, no.

We lost Sira Moonwarden to the Horde... just saying...I think getting the population of an entire racial capital genocided is quite enough. No "notable" characters needed to make it any worse.

Btw, have you seen Malfurion lately? He kinda vanished from the face of the earth. He isn't in any shape or form involved in rescuing Tyrande from the grim Night Warrior fate, nor is he anywhere in the current game, standing around somewhere in SW, just as ruler of the remaining night elves. Just some usual nelf neglect by WoW devs. I wouldn't even ask for him to get any story, although it is highly unrealistic that he would leave Tyrande to a fate like that without trying to do something about it.

But that he's not even in the game at this point really rubs me the wrong way, you know, just like Mekkatorque stands around in Gnomeregan or the Dwarven Council in Ironforge. But no. They didn't even bother to put a nelf leader in the game.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

The Sepulcher of the First Ones, or the Sepulcher for short, is a mysterious location containing the secrets of the First Ones. Its location is hidden and a closely guarded secret. The attendants of Korthia are forbidden from discussing it, even with allies.

The Primus believed that once the Jailer collects the five sigils of the Eternal Ones, he will be able to reach the Sepulcher, something the Primus thinks would be catastrophic. He hid his own sigil in the Vault of Secrets on Korthia and bound it with magic in order to prevent this.

The Primus was eventually proven right, when the Jailer eventually managed to collect all five sigils and opened a portal to the Sepulcher from Oribos. Sylvanas Windrunner was then captured by the Ebon Blade for further interrogation on the Jailer's plans.

The brokers of Cartel Ba and Cartel Al have also been looking for the Sepulcher. The broker Al'firim draws a distinction between this sepulcher and the Sepulcher of Knowledge in Maldraxxus.

Hm, I see. Well hopefully Forbidden Knowdledge isn't there, because that would be kinda silly to keep such knowledge in their Tomb.
I have even checked the propper pronounciation in Google translate and it was "[The] Sepulcher of the First Ones, [Thee] Ulduar, [Thee] Azeroth."

[username993720]

Hm, I see. Well hopefully Forbidden Knowdledge isn't there, because that would be kinda silly to keep such knowledge in their Tomb.
I have even checked the propper pronounciation in Google translate and it was "[The] Sepulcher of the First Ones, [Thee] Ulduar, [Thee] Azeroth."

Of course it would be forbidden knowledge.
Why do you think he's going there? free icecream?

[Myradin]

Ulduar and Azeroth don't normally have the word "the" infront of them when referencing them directly.

If Sylvannus would be saying he was going to Azeroth she'd say "You cannot let him reach Azeroth" not "You cannot let him reach the Azeroth"

[Progenitor Aquarius]

Ulduar and Azeroth don't normally have the word "the" infront of them when referencing them directly.

If Sylvannus would be saying he was going to Azeroth she'd say "You cannot let him reach Azeroth" not "You cannot let him reach the Azeroth"

Ok, that's a relieving info. My national language isn't English. I was thinking it over and she might say [Thee] Artifact. When we were fighting the Guardian of The First Ones there was a star shaped mysterious artifact in the back. It disappeared after the fight. Also Forbidden Knowledge is Void.

[sighy]

I would've happily made the trade of Malfurion for Teldrassil. No, we've just had to deal with Tyrande and her impotent Night Warrior arc which, aside from a brief scuffle with Sylvanas, amounted to a lot of nothing. Now she'll follow suit with the rest of the Alliance in forgiveness. Not to mention the aforementioned Malfurion being utterly useless and the lunacy of newly risen night elves, like Delaryn and Sira, siding with the Horde, that was also fantastic. -_-

I'm biased towards Alliance, obviously, as a long time NE player/fan but, yeah, the story since War of Thorns has been abysmal for everyone.

I was simply saying that empirically speaking Forsaken have lost a great deal more than Night Elves over the course of BfA comparatively speaking, because they lost their capital, leadership, notable characters, dark rangers, valkyr and majority of their Lordaeon territory. And by notable characters i mean recognisable names. Nobody cares about Delaryn, who basically got introduced to get axed, instead of Shandrys, because she basically spent the war of thorns doing Shandrys's job. Not saying Shandrys should have died, but that it was painfully obvious.

Delaryn and Sira is one of those underbaked ideas, which really should have either been cut or explored much more in depth, with greater nuance. God knows the money and time would be better spent than on the 4 cinematic quality CGI cinematics of Sadfang moping, whining and getting axed unceremoniously.