Wide partisan divide on whether voting is a right or a privilege

[Veggie50]

I’m Dutch, and never heard anyone say our voting is obstructed or non-democratic. I believe its a very important right within our society.

But in this poll, I would probably fall on the “there should be some requirements to voting” side. Mainly because the question asked is extremely broad in its interpretation.

I don’t consider the republican wish for voter ID requirements to be so strange. It helps the system security a lot. The problem however, is that unlike the EU, the USA does not have a centralized ID card system.

In the EU, every 18+ citizen gets an ID card from the government. If you cant afford the costs (about 30 euro if Memory serves) the government will provide it for you.

So voter identification isn’t bad perse, but voter identification combined with no centralized identification system definitely is.

Aside from the voter ID thing, excluding people from voting is a slippery slope. Disenfranchisement of convicted fellons is a difficult proposition on its own, but combine that with the USA’s incredibly high rate of incarcerations, and it becomes entirely problematic.

[Gestopft]

I don’t consider the republican wish for voter ID requirements to be so strange. It helps the system security a lot. The problem however, is that unlike the EU, the USA does not have a centralized ID card system.

In the EU, every 18+ citizen gets an ID card from the government. If you cant afford the costs (about 30 euro if Memory serves) the government will provide it for you.

So voter identification isn’t bad perse, but voter identification combined with no centralized identification system definitely is.

In general, lots of Democrats don't have a problem with voter ID -in theory, and as long as IDs are freely provided. The issues that come with the GOP voter ID pushes is what else comes with it- a particularly egregious example was in Alabama, where multiple licensing centers were being closed at the same time as new ID requirements coming. out. Or there is Texas, where your handgun license can be used to vote, but not a student ID card.

[Fugus]

I’m Dutch, and never heard anyone say our voting is obstructed or non-democratic. I believe its a very important right within our society.

But in this poll, I would probably fall on the “there should be some requirements to voting” side. Mainly because the question asked is extremely broad in its interpretation.

I don’t consider the republican wish for voter ID requirements to be so strange. It helps the system security a lot. The problem however, is that unlike the EU, the USA does not have a centralized ID card system.

In the EU, every 18+ citizen gets an ID card from the government. If you cant afford the costs (about 30 euro if Memory serves) the government will provide it for you.

So voter identification isn’t bad perse, but voter identification combined with no centralized identification system definitely is.

Aside from the voter ID thing, excluding people from voting is a slippery slope. Disenfranchisement of convicted fellons is a difficult proposition on its own, but combine that with the USA’s incredibly high rate of incarcerations, and it becomes entirely problematic.

You have to look at what they do even more than just what they say.

When it comes to voting requirements, the GOP weaponizes it when/if they get them passed by selectively closing ID locations making it harder to get them and be selectively including valid forms of ID that minorities will most likely lack.

In Texas, they tried to make it where your college ID isn't a valid form of ID for voting yet your gun permit is. You can also be forced to drive up to 3 counties away to get your ID with offices that have reduced opening hours making it even harder to get your ID to vote. Trying to make it where minorities and educated people are harder to vote but the countries boys can more easily.

Then in Georgia you have only to look at the new stuff they did making the news also reminding you that in 2018 they tried to reduce polling locations from 60 down to 6 in minorities areas and even in 2020, if you were in a minority area, you could wait upwards of 11 hours in line just to vote which they now made it illegal for others to provide you food or water in that 11 hour wait time.

Then in North Carolina, our supreme court actually threw out their voter ID requirements when they first passed them years ago because the GOP were so brazen as to conduct studies to figure out which forms of ID minorities were least likely to have to they could require them with surgical precision to attack voters.

They even have an episode of Last Week Tonight about it where they even have politicians bragging about how they cut Obama's voter turnout in their states.

Then you look at how prisons are abused where the prisoner's can't vote but still count towards the districts voting population where we have a few districts are 80% prison inmates just so the conservatives in that area have more power. Or in Florida were something like 15% (Can't remember the exact number but was up there) of the adult black males there couldn't vote due to having a criminal record.They had a referendum on their ballots to allow them the right to vote which passed only for the GOP to try and go around it and require that they must pay all criminal fees before they get that right and Florida is not only a huge welfare queen outright but also one that has huge costs when it comes to their courts.

I could agree with a Voter ID law in the future, after the address these abuses of them, but as it stands, it would be abused to cut tens of millions of legal voters off the rolls because they don't vote Republican.

[Veggie50]

You have to look at what they do even more than just what they say.

When it comes to voting requirements, the GOP weaponizes it when/if they get them passed by selectively closing ID locations making it harder to get them and be selectively including valid forms of ID that minorities will most likely lack.

In Texas, they tried to make it where your college ID isn't a valid form of ID for voting yet your gun permit is. You can also be forced to drive up to 3 counties away to get your ID with offices that have reduced opening hours making it even harder to get your ID to vote. Trying to make it where minorities and educated people are harder to vote but the countries boys can more easily.

Then in Georgia you have only to look at the new stuff they did making the news also reminding you that in 2018 they tried to reduce polling locations from 60 down to 6 in minorities areas and even in 2020, if you were in a minority area, you could wait upwards of 11 hours in line just to vote which they now made it illegal for others to provide you food or water in that 11 hour wait time.

Then in North Carolina, our supreme court actually threw out their voter ID requirements when they first passed them years ago because the GOP were so brazen as to conduct studies to figure out which forms of ID minorities were least likely to have to they could require them with surgical precision to attack voters.

They even have an episode of Last Week Tonight about it where they even have politicians bragging about how they cut Obama's voter turnout in their states.

Then you look at how prisons are abused where the prisoner's can't vote but still count towards the districts voting population where we have a few districts are 80% prison inmates just so the conservatives in that area have more power. Or in Florida were something like 15% (Can't remember the exact number but was up there) of the adult black males there couldn't vote due to having a criminal record.They had a referendum on their ballots to allow them the right to vote which passed only for the GOP to try and go around it and require that they must pay all criminal fees before they get that right and Florida is not only a huge welfare queen outright but also one that has huge costs when it comes to their courts.

I could agree with a Voter ID law in the future, after the address these abuses of them, but as it stands, it would be abused to cut tens of millions of legal voters off the rolls because they don't vote Republican.

I agree, that’s why I said voter ID only works with a centralized uniform government mandated ID, like in the civilized world.

I also agree that the republican party intent with such restrictions differs from what the question entails. But if I were to answer the question, not the possible intent behind it, I would vote for the “some restrictions” option.

Which is good news, actually. It means that most likely less than 42% of Americans want to burn down democracy.

[D3thray]

https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...ponsibilities/



So, the anti-democracy shift for Republicans continues - 1/3 think it's a right (vs. roughly 80% of Democrats) and 2/3 think it is a "privilege which can be limited".

And it's primarily older Republicans that hold that view.

This poll by its own admission omits large swaths of the population. They only used self reported mono racial whites, blacks, and Asians. Biracial people make up a not insignificant proportion of the population, especially multi-racial black/white.

Kinda curious as to why.

[Specialka]

One point is horrible. The other point acknowledges that rehabilitation is important, particular classes of people get locked up unjustly and it alters demographics by removing urban residents to rural areas.

And there goes the dialog, you can't have a discussion with zealots.

[Doctor Amadeus]

I'm sure he would have no issues with allowing toddlers to drive, drink alcohol, and/or operate firearms.

Hahahahaha I am sure too, Hell if there is a state in the Union that will do that very thing My bet is on Florida.

[Shadowferal]

Hahahahaha I am sure too, Hell if there is a state in the Union that will do that very thing My bet is on Florida.

Well, if you disregard age...some toddlers already do.

[Edge-]

This poll by its own admission omits large swaths of the population. They only used self reported mono racial whites, blacks, and Asians.

Where do you see this? I just looked through their methodology and it makes no mention of that - https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-conte...ethodology.pdf

[Ivanstone]

And there goes the dialog, you can't have a discussion with zealots.

Sorry if the facts hurt your feelings. I put up three separate points and you couldn’t even be bothered to make even a single counter argument.

[Specialka]

Sorry if the facts hurt your feelings. I put up three separate points and you couldn’t even be bothered to make even a single counter argument.

That is the point, as I said, your points and mine were valids. But since no discussion is possible with you, good evening, we are done.

[Logwyn]

yet even more proof that right wingers are either ignorant or willfully ignorant.

I bet that if you took their "privilege away" they would start scream they were losing their rights.

[unfilteredJW]

That is the point, as I said, your points and mine were valids. But since no discussion is possible with you, good evening, we are done.

Bring something of merit to discuss and you’ll be treated better. It must be exhausting to have everything you say get blown out of the water by people posting actual facts.

[Specialka]

Bring something of merit to discuss and you’ll be treated better. It must be exhausting to have everything you say get blown out of the water by people posting actual facts.

What are you doing here then ? Every single of your post does not bring anything, but slander or insults. Must be exhausting to hate everyone that does not think like you.

[cubby]

It's because republicans don't want people voting if they disagree with them. Fraud isn't a problem even though they claim that's the reason. They just want to make it easier for republicans to win.

It's similar to their thinking on many issues. Take the current CRT nonsense. It's not even taught in grade school and the vast majority of people had never even heard of it until recently. This is because what they really want to do is pretend blacks liked being slaves, native genocides either didn't take place or were their own fault, etc... They want to teach children an alternate version of history that is completely false.

At this point you can be certain when a republican gives you a reason for something it's a lie. They real reason is something much shittier.

This is the fundamental issue. There is good data going back over several major elections showing that, generally speaking, the more people who turn out, the less the GOP wins. And we've seen this in blatant statements from key GOP leaders, even as recently as the 2020 election. Trump and a few others "said the quiet part" by admitting increased voter turnout means the GOP will lose (he actually went so far as to say that if voter turnout increases Republicans would never win an election again). The TX AG admitted that if he had allowed mail-in-ballot registration to be done by mail (read that again just so you get the point clearly) TX would have swung blue.

The GQP has always been against people voting, unless you happen to be white and either rich and/or uneducated.

[Ivanstone]

That is the point, as I said, your points and mine were valids. But since no discussion is possible with you, good evening, we are done.

Your point isn’t valid. If it was valid I wouldn’t have bothered posting three counter points.

How about we talk about the racist history of felony disenfranchisement?

[Endus]

Your point isn’t valid. If it was valid I wouldn’t have bothered posting three counter points.

How about we talk about the racist history of felony disenfranchisement?

Which, of course, gets tied into the racism of drug laws, particularly, to provide a means by which to heavily disenfranchise black Americans. Something that's still ongoing.

[Specialka]

Your point isn’t valid. If it was valid I wouldn’t have bothered posting three counter points.

How about we talk about the racist history of felony disenfranchisement?

I am not interested in discussing about anything while looking at it through races. I seriously hope that this way of thinking and reasoning stays in the US and do not plague the EU.

[Endus]

I am not interested in discussing about anything while looking at it through races. I seriously hope that this way of thinking and reasoning stays in the US and do not plague the EU.

It's always convenient when you can disregard the complaints of wide swaths of people by dismissing the validity of their complaints wholesale because you don't want to honestly consider what they have to say.

It's not just or equitable, but it's convenient.

[Elegiac]

I am not interested in discussing about anything while looking at it through races.

I.e.: "I'm only interested in the curated version of history that I've been taught by a biased system".