The Asmongold Effect

[Kathranis]

The whole FFXIV vs WoW crap is stupid

FFXIV would not exist in its current state without wow, Yoshi P said so himself. He and his development team looked at the disaster 1.0 was and started playing WoW at the tail end of Cataclysm, and Mists of Pandaria and took inspiration from it. They Took inspiration from Cataclysm and ended the world and remade it, Nidhogg was basically Deathwing done right, but Yoshi himself said if wow did not exist, we would not have FFXIV in its current form.

We should hope and pray WoW bounces back cause we don't want FFXIV to be the only thing and top dog cause thats when the higher ups step in, start to micromanage the shit out of things, implement predatory monetary systems and the quality starts to dwindle because the higher ups think the game is now "Too big to Fail" which is what happened to WoW.

One thing I will say, and I don't get why people always ignore it when discussing the two games, is that FFXIV's monetization is just as predatory as WoW's, if not more predatory.

For one, in WoW you can get any shop item through gold via WoW Tokens, including your subscription. WoW's shop is also pretty quaint compared to the Mog Station, in terms of what's on offer.

Both have cosmetic mounts and pets, but the mounts and pets in WoW are consistently $25 and $10, while in FFXIV they have a bunch of different mounts that cost up to $40. FFXIV also has a variety of cosmetic transmog items, old event items, furniture, emotes, etc. And FFXIV also has pets that can only be obtained by buying the $50 OSTs.

I just don't get why people let FFXIV slide on its microtransactions but double down on attacking WoW's, often in the same breath.

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The "Asmongold Effect" is pretty much a capstone moment on the movement of people from WoW to XIV over the course of the past few months. I had started noticing more and more "Former multi-year WoW vet tries XIV" vids on Youtube starting around March-April and they continued to increase as more and more of the bigger names amongst WoW content creators started trying their hand at the game.

It's important to note that FFXIV is doing an ongoing Twitch promotion through most of August where FFXIV players can get an exclusive mount for gifting subs to participating channels. That in all likelihood has a lot to do with the recent attention streamers have been giving it, since they get free subs from viewers.

Obviously some will stick with it or genuinely wanted to try it, but the promotion is giving them incentive to play and stream it right now.

[Absintheminded]

Becaus it basically is. Every corner u turn there’s a naked catboy. It’s an infestation and it’s repulsive and degenerate

Do you feel the same way with skimpy transmogs in WoW?

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One thing I will say, and I don't get why people always ignore it when discussing the two games, is that FFXIV's monetization is just as predatory as WoW's, if not more predatory.

For one, in WoW you can get any shop item through gold via WoW Tokens, including your subscription. WoW's shop is also pretty quaint compared to the Mog Station, in terms of what's on offer.

Both have cosmetic mounts and pets, but the mounts and pets in WoW are consistently $25 and $10, while in FFXIV they have a bunch of different mounts that cost up to $40. FFXIV also has a variety of cosmetic transmog items, old event items, furniture, emotes, etc. And FFXIV also has pets that can only be obtained by buying the $50 OSTs.

I just don't get why people let FFXIV slide on its microtransactions but double down on attacking WoW's, often in the same breath.

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It's important to note that FFXIV is doing an ongoing Twitch promotion through most of August where FFXIV players can get an exclusive mount for gifting subs to participating channels. That in all likelihood has a lot to do with the recent attention streamers have been giving it, since they get free subs from viewers.

Obviously some will stick with it or genuinely wanted to try it, but the promotion is giving them incentive to play and stream it right now.

There's literally no discussion to be had. The stores are practically identical except you can pay for in-game currency in WoWs shop.

[Kolvarg]

I just don't get why people let FFXIV slide on its microtransactions but double down on attacking WoW's, often in the same breath.

To be fair, for a lot of people it might come from pure ignorance - not knowing exactly how FF's microtransactions are. I know I don't, so I have no way to criticize it, depsite criticizing WoW's.

Another possible factor might be changes to the microtransactions. Have FF's microtransactions always been the way they are? If so, it might be somewhat normal for people to react more negatively to the increased microtransactions that were added to WoW little by little, versus a similar/worse system that has always been that way from the start.

The "Asmongold Effect" is pretty much a capstone moment on the movement of people from WoW to XIV over the course of the past few months. I had started noticing more and more "Former multi-year WoW vet tries XIV" vids on Youtube starting around March-April and they continued to increase as more and more of the bigger names amongst WoW content creators started trying their hand at the game.

Agree, it's more of a culmination of multiple youtubers and streamers seriously checking out and talking about FF in a time where a lot of the WoW population is disgruntled, not just Asmongold. He might be the most popular/prominent one, but ultimately it's bigger than him.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I just don't get why people let FFXIV slide on its microtransactions but double down on attacking WoW's, often in the same breath.

WoW's fandom is older and remembers a time when games weren't microtransaction heavy. Horse armor DLC for Oblivion and the horse mount being added in Wrath caused an uproar but the newer generation doesn't remember that. They grew up with microtransactions being acceptable and don't think anymore of it.

[Merie]

Boy we sure had a big hearty laugh at "horse armor" back in the day.

Little did we know...

[Osmeric]

XIV's cash shop just hasn't had the silly amount of attention paid to it that WoW's cash shop has. It's the same reason people want Blizzard HQ lasered from orbit because of Overwatch "loot boxes" but no one talks about it in Little Billy's Indy Steam Game.

WoW is a competitive PvE game; XIV, not so much. That's makes a difference in how acceptable a cash shop can be.

[GreenJesus]

That's really not it at all. That's some "kids these days..." stuff right there. (I also might remind everyone that XIV is far from a "new" game.)

XIV's cash shop just hasn't had the silly amount of attention paid to it that WoW's cash shop has. It's the same reason people want Blizzard HQ lasered from orbit because of Overwatch "loot boxes" but no one talks about it in Little Billy's Indy Steam Game.

Probably because the Lodestone website is just so garbage that people don't even know how to find the cash shop. If they can't find it, it doesn't exist. Square Enix seriously needs to update their website.

[The Oblivion]

WoW is a competitive PvE game; XIV, not so much. That's makes a difference in how acceptable a cash shop can be.

wows competitive pve is almost identical to ffxivs, wow just has a lot more bosses, with ffxiv having the hardest difficulty in ultimate between both games.

[GreenJesus]

wows competitive pve is almost identical to ffxivs, wow just has a lot more bosses, with ffxiv having the hardest difficulty in ultimate between both games.

Problem with mythic in WoW is that there's quite a few bosses that are just jokes. First 3-4 bosses in mythic usually just fall over. That leaves you with 4-7 actual bosses per raid which is still more than FF14 though.

[The Oblivion]

Oh bollocks. They're similar in kind, but not in degree. Not even close.

they are similar in every way outside of number of bosses per expac. lol

they are extremely close in difficulty, ffxiv edging out with ultimates for hardest, but savage is on average easier then end tier mythic bosses.

[Sorrowseer]

I can deny that FF14 is a great game all day long, I gave it a good go and I hated it, if people like it thats fine, if millions like it thats fine, just means they like it, I don't, its not a great game.

Poor Asmon, he is tainted by reputation, I didn't like him kinda do not still, but when he talks on a topic you agree with, instead of just nodding along he does raise every single actual point relevant to the topic, his talk on bots and the recent disgusting stuff has been spot on.

[The Oblivion]

Problem with mythic in WoW is that there's quite a few bosses that are just jokes. First 3-4 bosses in mythic usually just fall over. That leaves you with 4-7 actual bosses per raid which is still more than FF14 though.

yeah very true. i rate ffxiv tiers kinda like this:
boss 1 = mythic 1-3 bosses on avergae
boss 2/3 = usually around mid tier mythic
boss 4 = last 2/3 boss mythic difficulty, but USUALLY not as hard as the actual last boss in mythic
ultimate = harder than end tier mythic boss

[GreenJesus]

yeah very true. i rate ffxiv tiers kinda like this:
boss 1 = mythic 1-3 bosses on avergae
boss 2/3 = usually around mid tier mythic
boss 4 = last 2/3 boss mythic difficulty, but USUALLY not as hard as the actual last boss in mythic
ultimate = harder than end tier mythic boss

Also, most bosses in WoW are basically just DPS'ing/healing health bars with the occasional mechanic that hunters just take care of. FF14 usually involves everyone much more of the time.

[The Oblivion]

Also, most bosses in WoW are basically just DPS'ing/healing health bars with the occasional mechanic that hunters just take care of. FF14 usually involves everyone much more of the time.

yeah ffxiv has MUCH, and i mean MUCH MUCH MUCH more personal responsibility on each raider. However with a small raid size, its easier to control and plan. wow is a lot more chaotic when compared to the dance of ffxiv savages. when you add in that healing in ffxiv is a joke its so easy, it makes those wow dps/hps checks a lot harder in comparison.

another thing to note with ffxiv raiding is efficiency, because there is no trash, and every pull is identical, you can mass chain pull A LOT faster then wow, this makes progging go a lot faster. (some people like to point at ffxiv raids dies

[Ausr]

Also, most bosses in WoW are basically just DPS'ing/healing health bars with the occasional mechanic that hunters just take care of. FF14 usually involves everyone much more of the time.

Can absolutely tell you and Oblivion do not raid mythics.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Design wise, WoW boss fights and FFXIV boss fights are quite different.

WoW boss fights are usually dependent on a handful of players (usually 2-4) to carry the raid, as they are assigned to do something that MUST be done or else the raid wipes. Ie, someone needs to grab these mobs and pull them over here and keep them away from the boss, these players needs to break off from the raid and go fight a miniboss (Sha of Fear fight in TotES or the conveyor belt in Siegecrafter), or this player needs to hop into Socrethar's mech, etc. If those players screw up, it's a wipe. Otherwise, the rest of the raid doesn't have that much responsibility. They can screw up but it won't wipe the raid. However, there are 20 players, so even if player competency remains the same, because there are more players there will simply be more mistakes that happen. A wipe in WoW is usually a death by a thousand cuts: so many little mistakes add up over time that the raid eventually wipes. The raid leader is managing a deteriorating situation and the raid team keeps going on their attempt until the bitter end. It is possible for the raid to clear even if people are messing up non-critical mechanics.

FFXIV boss fights are designed so that everyone has to carry the raid. If any single person botches a mechanic, it usually means at least one or two other players die (perhaps the entire raid!), and the raid just aborts their attempt on the spot by jumping off the arena. On E6S, if any of the 8 players doesn't drop their AoE out of the middle, it is a wipe. On Seat of Sacrifice Extreme, if any player overlaps too much with another player during the earthquake section, the other player will die too. If two people aren't standing in one of the towers/falling meteor locks, everyone dies. On Emerald Weapon Extreme, if a single orb is touched wrong, everyone dies. Etc. In order to clear a FFXIV boss fight, no player can make a single mistake; if someone makes a mistake you wipe it and do it over again. So clearing means you're just doing it over and over again until you get the run where every player nailed every mechanic. This leads to a higher pressure environment, IMO, because if someone keeps making a mistake, all eyes are on him.

Whereas in a WoW fight, people can keep making mistakes but since it's a non-critical mechanic, it's okay it doesn't really matter that much in the grand scheme of things. From what I can recall, the only fight in WoW where EVERYONE had to succeed or else the raid fight was Shadowlord Iskar, where you had to pass the eye around (and people wound up just installing an addon that told them what to do). Blizzard learned their lesson from that fight and never did that again, as expecting 100% competence from all 20 players in a 8+ minute long fight is unreasonable.

Well, that's for FFXIV fights on anything harder than normal. Normal is usually a cake walk and you can constantly screw up and you won't wipe the raid... except for Seat of Sacrifice with the intermission button mashing phase, where EVERYONE has to succeed or else the whole raid wipes. I know it might be sorta anti-climatic to have a hero cutscene where 7 players come back from the Aetherial Rift... and then one guy is conspicuously absent (ruining the hero moment), but in practice it makes doing SoS on normal rather aggravating when you wipe on the intermission phase for 5th time in a row because someone wasn't able to button mash their controller fast enough (and their hands are probably getting sore).

[THEORACLE64]

I wouldn’t say it’s an “amazing” game. It’s still pretty clunky and the art style is starting to look dated already, but it’s better than nothing I guess.

[GreenJesus]

Can absolutely tell you and Oblivion do not raid mythics.

lol yes I do. I was 8/10M last tier, got cutting edge Ghuun before I quit in BFA, and cutting edge Argus. There's not as much personal responsibility in WoW as there is FF14.

[Zyrinx]

I was shocked to read the Producer's open and (seemingly) honest blog post with numbers about the queue and server issues in FF14, I mean legit shocked.

You mean you don't have to be a Legion (hah) of condescending pricks to run a very successful MMO?

[GreenJesus]

It is true that XIV fights tend to throw death stuff at everyone, but the idea that you can just keep screwing up forever in WoW raids and as long as you're not "one of the two people doing things" it's ok is really overstating it.

A good example is Innerva. You can get lucky doing pull after pull that Billy just does not get the orb and messes up the raid. If Billy doesn't get targetted by the orb, what does Billy have to do? Kill ads that show up next to the boss? Not sit in puddles for longer than 5 seconds? That's about it. FF14 forces EVERYONE to do nearly every mechanic. Another example is Kael'thas.. if you aren't a healer or a DK to grip the birds you are basically sitting on your ass barely doing anything the whole fight. All you have to do is just DPS harder during Kael's dps shield.