Activision-Blizzard Sued By California

[dwarven]

I don't think that will stop Blizzard from attempting to arbitrate with the mistreated employees/former employees, but do you know if such arbitration would eliminate CA's ability to pursue the case?

I'm not familiar enough with the laws regarding this case to make any sort of estimation. I'm just thinking back to incidents of corporate malfeasance in which a company denies wrongdoing while paying a fine, and whether or not this could play out similarly.

Nah, I doubt it. The company I work for in CA was caught in some top level fraud orchestrated the CEO and higher up managers. Jail was just part of it. They also got domed by civil lawsuits. The entire high level management was cleaned out, even people who knew about the fraud but didn't report it. Hopefully some people will go to jail here. We love our labor laws in California, to the point where every place I've worked have them posted front and center in the breakrooms. They're always telling us to take our full lunch hours and report any misconduct to HR as soon as it happens. Which is why this whole thing is so surprising to me. Every company I've worked for here seems to be petrified of violating labor laws.

[Elegiac]

your freedom of expression is trying to force someone to conform to aesthetics you want to see

You've been literally arguing that video game developers should be able to do this for the past two pages, dude.

Have some self-awareness.

[Yadryonych]

No, but I can call them out for designing art for public consumption that promotes the notion that only their standards of attractiveness are acceptable.

Cut it out with the strawman.

You can call out whatever, anyone would still ignore your noise since an artist is entitled to designing art for public consumption the way he wants. The public isn't forced to consume it

What you cannot do is ass-pull senseless accusations based on what someone finds attractive and on your twisted image of what should be attractive

[The Oblivion]

You've been literally arguing that video game developers should be able to do this for the past two pages, dude.

Have some self-awareness.

video game developers should be able to make a game look how they want? yes, yes the should. lmfao thank you for understanding!

them developing an aesthetic they like doesn't force anyone to do anything. its their game. they get to decide what it looks like. lol

[Elegiac]

You can call out whatever, anyone would still ignore your noise since an artist is entitled to designing art for public consumption the way he wants. The public isn't forced to consume it

What you cannot do is ass-pull senseless accusations based on what someone finds attractive and on your twisted image of what should be attractive

Once again, wondering how these accusations are senseless when we have a several page court document detailing that the bro culture on display at Blizzcon 2010 was not in fact an outlier.

Lol.

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video game developers should be able to make a game look how they want

So you don't actually have an issue with people forcing their aesthetics on others, then?

Also: this is a lie, because all of you bitch to high heaven whenever a video game developer does something inclusive and accuse them of "going woke". Artistic integrity only goes as far as y'all agree with the art being made.

[The Oblivion]

Once again, wondering how these accusations are senseless when we have a several page court document detailing that the bro culture on display at Blizzcon 2010 was not in fact an outlier.

Lol.

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So you don't actually have an issue with people forcing their aesthetics on others, then?

they are not forcing, you don't have to consume what they create. just like you dont get to force them to create what you want.

[Elegiac]

they are not forcing, you don't have to consume what they create.

No, I just have to live in the same community as people that do. Art does not exist in a vacuum.

just like you dont get to force them to create what you want.

*gestures*

This is a lie, because all of you bitch to high heaven whenever a video game developer does something inclusive and accuse them of "going woke". Artistic integrity only goes as far as y'all agree with the art being made.

[Yadryonych]

all of you bitch to high heaven whenever a video game developer does something inclusive and accuse them of "going woke"

If you drop your agenda for a while, you might notice that valid criticism of someone's art and criminal accusations based on someone's art are two quite different things

[MikeBogina]

No, I just have to live in the same community as people that do.

You really don't have to. You can go make your own community of like minded people, or join one that exists. But instead you join one that has had a certain aesthetic and then try to critique and change it.

[Elegiac]

If you drop your agenda for a while, you might notice that valid criticism of someone's art and criminal accusations based on someone's art are two quite different things

Only if you believe that the law is the arbiter of morality. /yawn

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You really don't have to. You can go make your own community of like minded people, or join one that exists. But instead you join one that has had a certain aesthetic and then try to critique and change it.

And they say *we're* the ones who want safe spaces. Lol.

[Traveler Voltin]

well this took a turn.

[dwarven]

When you're caught like this, with accusations this insidious, in the political climate we are now in, the only thing you can really do is straight up lie and say "no, we're actually good" and hope people believe you.

[Endus]

where in that whole video did she or they mention behavior? it wasn't mentioned.

its insane to think any of that is an indicator that someone would harass another at work. totally insane. a developer does not need to get rid of what they think is attractive, its THEIR game, they are making it. you dont get to force an aesthetic on them.

Without taking a position regarding Blizzard on this specifically, "it's the creator's aesthetic" is not, in any way whatsoever, a defense against an accusation of it being offensive/bigoted.

If I make a game where the main character wears red and black with a big obvious swastika symbol, and you go around killing bearded enemies with outrageously, cartoonishly large noses, everyone would be very, very correct to say my game was pro-Nazi and using Nazi-type antisemitic symbolism to support a Nazi outlook. And that I'm a Nazi/Neo-Nazi myself, for creating that game to glorify those things. The creator cannot claim immunity by saying "it's a creative choice", or indeed, even "that's what the character thinks/would do". The creator is the one making those choices, and they bear full responsibility for what those choices express.

To pick a different example that hopefully won't be political, imagine creating a movie where the protagonist, a 40 year old man, falls in love with and eventually inculcates a physically intimate relationship with a 12 year old girl, and this is just presented as magical and romantic and wonderful. The creator of that work is expressing support and glorification of/for pedophilia. It's gross and wrong, and the author should be rightly called a pedophile over it.

And before anyone says "but Lolita", A> Nabokov is literally the guy I'm thinking of, and such accusations did fly around, and still do, and there's good reason, and B> Humbert Humbert is presented as an unreliable narrator and not really idealized in the way I was talking above, to boot.

[Elegiac]

Without taking a position regarding Blizzard on this specifically, "it's the creator's aesthetic" is not, in any way whatsoever, a defense against an accusation of it being offensive/bigoted.

If I make a game where the main character wears red and black with a big obvious swastika symbol, and you go around killing bearded enemies with outrageously, cartoonishly large noses, everyone would be very, very correct to say my game was pro-Nazi and using Nazi-type antisemitic symbolism to support a Nazi outlook. And that I'm a Nazi/Neo-Nazi myself, for creating that game to glorify those things. The creator cannot claim immunity by saying "it's a creative choice", or indeed, even "that's what the character thinks/would do". The creator is the one making those choices, and they bear full responsibility for what those choices express.

To pick a different example that hopefully won't be political, imagine creating a movie where the protagonist, a 40 year old man, falls in love with and eventually inculcates a physically intimate relationship with a 12 year old girl, and this is just presented as magical and romantic and wonderful. The creator of that work is expressing support and glorification of/for pedophilia. It's gross and wrong, and the author should be rightly called a pedophile over it.

And before anyone says "but Lolita", A> Nabokov is literally the guy I'm thinking of, and such accusations did fly around, and still do, and there's good reason, and B> Humbert Humbert is presented as an unreliable narrator and not really idealized in the way I was talking above, to boot.

*puts the Lolita sign down* god damn it

[The Oblivion]

Without taking a position regarding Blizzard on this specifically, "it's the creator's aesthetic" is not, in any way whatsoever, a defense against an accusation of it being offensive/bigoted.

If I make a game where the main character wears red and black with a big obvious swastika symbol, and you go around killing bearded enemies with outrageously, cartoonishly large noses, everyone would be very, very correct to say my game was pro-Nazi and using Nazi-type antisemitic symbolism to support a Nazi outlook. And that I'm a Nazi/Neo-Nazi myself, for creating that game to glorify those things. The creator cannot claim immunity by saying "it's a creative choice", or indeed, even "that's what the character thinks/would do". The creator is the one making those choices, and they bear full responsibility for what those choices express.

To pick a different example that hopefully won't be political, imagine creating a movie where the protagonist, a 40 year old man, falls in love with and eventually inculcates a physically intimate relationship with a 12 year old girl, and this is just presented as magical and romantic and wonderful. The creator of that work is expressing support and glorification of/for pedophilia. It's gross and wrong, and the author should be rightly called a pedophile over it.

And before anyone says "but Lolita", A> Nabokov is literally the guy I'm thinking of, and such accusations did fly around, and still do, and there's good reason, and B> Humbert Humbert is presented as an unreliable narrator and not really idealized in the way I was talking above, to boot.

this is all total bull. lol it IS an argument. making a video game in an aesthetic you want in NO WAY indicates you will harass co workers. that correlation is bat shit crazy.

were the orcs in wow running a boar clothing company and then harassing their blood elf female workers? lmfao

"The creator cannot claim immunity by saying "it's a creative choice", or indeed, even "that's what the character thinks/would do""

yes, yes they can, like every horrible scene ever made. rape, murder, torture etc. none of that being present means the creator would do those things. total lunacy.

and finally, your whole, entire, complete post, has NOTHING to do with that was being discussed.

[Elegiac]

yes, yes they can, like every horrible scene ever made. rape, murder, torture etc. none of that being present means the creator would do those things. total lunacy.

No. Diegetic justifications for creepy and flawed shit are worthless when the author is also responsible for creating the diegesis.

[The Oblivion]

No.

yes. and your opinion holds no more weight than mine on that.

[Elegiac]

yes. and your opinion holds no more weight than mine on that.

Yes, considering I just linked a supporting argument for mine.

Once again: diegetic justifications for creepy and flawed shit are not valid because the diegesis itself is also the author's creation.

[The Oblivion]

Yes, considering I just linked a supporting argument for mine.

Once again: diegetic justifications for creepy and flawed shit are not valid because the diegesis itself is also the author's creation.

thats not a supporting argument. thats just some random dude with an opinion. it holds no weight. lol its just another opinion.

once again, every horrible scene ever made including rape, murder, torture etc. , the presence of those scenes does not mean or indicate in ANY WAY that the creator would do those things.

[Elegiac]

thats not a supporting argument.

You can just say you didn't look at the argument rather than pretend it isn't one. Lol.