Woah; the legendary crafting system is extremely offensive to new/returning crafters

[Beatman]

There are always ulterior motives at play. Blizzard would lose a lot of wow token money if more players were able to craft the higher rank legendaries. Some no-lifers and gold millionaires supply the community with high rank base items while the remaining 90% of players buy the wow token for cash and sell it for gold to afford their legendaries.

[cparle87]

It's not even a FREE MARKET. Blizzard SHOEHORNED there a vendor item (orboreal shard) that needs MULTIPLE MILLIONS burned to their npcs with absolutely 0 player interaction causing that cost due to true demand and supply.

Hence: before you praise Blizzard about this "brilliant" system and before you troll others with "you want it for free?": first realize how the system works (shoehorned to be technically expensive by force).

Instead of looking at it as "expensive by force" why don't you look at it as vendor protection? I always hated it the last few expansions when trade goods like leather have a vendor price of 1c cause it gave no cushion for sellers. Because there's a vendor gold cost amount there's always going to be a minimum amount these will sell for, even as demand goes down, supply goes up, and other materials drop in price.

[epigramx]

I really don't follow how a vendor mat for crafting equals selling WoW tokens. That's a false equivalence. Vendor mats for crafting have been around long before WoW tokens. 2 off the top of my head are the mats required to make a Vial of the Sands and the Mechano Hog. People have been buying mats from Vendors since vanilla. Token's are not relevant to this discussion.

How is it a false equivalence? You can literally pay real cash and get gold and buy the mats faster.
In the old expansions it was never at that scale; e.g. 10k mats for mounts few use anyway.

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Yes, they are expensive. I bought mine for 250k. At the beginning it was for 500k. Prices will drop with time. So for now I don’t craft any new legendaries.

Not only they will drop, they will be near 0 when 10.x approaches. But right now it's a total mess if you start crafting now; it only made some sense at the start; it was still hurting a bit to get the first ranks but at least it gave the hope to break even (and some players that were VERY early (first 5 days early) made millions in hours).

[thunderdragon2]

You missed one important part: vendor item also gets cheaper with rep.

That means if player has played for a while, he's exalted with vendor and gets vendor item cheaper, thus he spends less on producing goods. Considering that vendor item is about half of price of item, that's a huge problem. Difference is in thousands of gold per crafted item.

Yep, Blizzard royally screwed professions this expansion. Made them dull and punishes players for missing expansion start.

do tell which rep is lowered by? i ahve all the 9.0 reps exalted and DA revered and the shards are still 125g per

[epigramx]

Wouldn't call that offensive but sadly, there is a cost of taking a break from the game, unlike RPGs, MMORPGs keep the story and world running, and thus things are gonna change while you are gone. And with this version of legendaries where you need to upgrade them, you'll feel even further behind, unlike previous where it just dropped, or you had it from a questline. And for the prices of items, there is always the method of you obtaining your own without a cost except for work.

There is ZERO need to have a "law" that forces you to see MMORPGs like that. The ONLY things mmos must be is massively multiplayer + RPG.
The way Blizzard forces people to waste ludicrous amounts of gold/real money has NOTHING to do with the definition of the genre..

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What's this bullshit about "you can't easily make gold"?

I've made 400k in the past 2.5 weeks, without much strenuous effort. I don't plan on bothering with a Rank 5/6 Legendary until I absolutely need it, Rank4 is perfectly fine for all 3 of my classes right now and I didn't pay more than about 20k each.

This system isn't "offensive" at all, you're just wanting something to complain about because you'll explode if you don't have anything to whine about for more than 3 days.

eta: On my server the rank 5s have started dropping below 100k now, with rank 6s not that far behind. I don't consider that to be particularly extreme amounts of golds. Even just doing callings / korthia adds up very quickly, particularly if you're skinning/mining/herbing along the way. The game practically THROWS gold at you, now. Literally nothing requires "grinding" gold.

400k in 2.5 weeks is nothing if you've turned the game into a job. The problem is it's ludicrously expensive in terms of time investment to do those crafting levellings right now.
Besides: it's not even fair: if you started near the launch you would break even in a couple of weeks (now you may end up at a LOSS).

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Your whole existence really seems to boil down to making these daily complaint threads...

Considering there's professions that lets you make them yourself and all the materials are grindable it really is a non-issue. It's not much of a bigger issue than people taking a break in the past and coming back and being behind everyone else.

I will ignore answering the personal attack. I wonder if you play the game currently when you say "all the materials are grindable". The most expensive mat in the discussion is from a vendor (i.e. it can't be farmed and no player can produce it; the gold goes directly to a black hole).

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well that seems to be his issue, he wants to join in half a year after expansion starts and be ahead of everyone who actualy put time and effort into game, without even trying...weak troll, 2/10 at best

Personally attacking me as "lazy" is a stupid response in this case. I was at the launch of the expansion (I still have an alt with high level legendaries crafted) and the system was still stupid back then and it wasn't even that hard to break even back then so there was nothing "unlazy" about that time anyway.
It did become even more stupid as it goes on since it's also unfair that at the launch you didn't even have to try much to be profitable because now you won't only waste that gold but the probability to break even is also extremely low.

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Soooo... it's like being a crafter in every expansion that ever existed? Early Birds make the money; did something change here?

Nothing of the sort (I was a heavy duty crafter for years so I know what's going on (heavy duty = I controlled the entire economy of a medium-to-large-sized realm at a certain point)). There was never something that ludicrous, that needed hundreds of thousands to be burned entirely at the start and then on the higher ranks to hope to have a profit mainly if you started too early AND the items produced to be required by EVERYONE in the game (well unless you only do pet battles (but even you would need to reach some pets in dangerous areas and instances).

[Cosmic Janitor]

The whole crafting part is extremely frustrating. Either you need someone you can trust that will craft it for you for a "small" fee if you bring them the materials and hope they won't run off with your stuff, or you need to spend upwards of 800k on my server cluster. The whole idea of having to craft the old pieces also simply does not work at this stage in the expansion because no one in der right mind wants and old piece, maybe with the exception of a T1 piece to test something (if it's cheap). I applaud that we can target it, but I think the mechanism employed by Blizzard is needlessly grindy and punishing for people that aren't in fully organized mythic guilds.

[epigramx]

yeah honestly it's pretty stupid.

no way individuals can compete with people sponsored by their guildbank.

i thought it was going to be just for 9.0 and that rank 1-4 would be invalidated in 9.1 with some new way to acquire rank 5-6. but no the r4 people get to cash in massive crafting fees again, even the damn vestige of origins is BoP for some reason.

And it's even worse if you don't know a r4 crafter, then you have to buy your base item of the AH for even higher prices and hope you can sell off your korhite crystals which are 100% useless to you if you aren't a r4 crafter.

on top of that it's unintuitive as well, even our guilds legendary crafter made the mistake of thinking you had to combine r4 item + vestige into r6 item, instead of having to use the vestige during a r4 craft. (and no doubt blizz support won't help you if you make this mistake).

it's a cool system on paper and in the wow of 10-15 years ago when server communities still mattered it would be amazing, but today it just seems like a system designed to facilitate the sale of wow tokens.

They've generally overengineered the subsystems to the point of stupid. I.e. no hard core raider gives a shit to farm the world for overengineered subsystems and no casual wants to understand them either. The most likely scenario is that they are desperate to produce artificial and forced grinds to keep players online with dopamine-spam-related addiction which ends up not being fun because gaming is supposed to be fun and not addictive necessarily because addiction can cause your brain to wake up one day and hate it because there CAN be addiction+not fun (look at alcoholics et al).

[Twdft]

do tell which rep is lowered by? i ahve all the 9.0 reps exalted and DA revered and the shards are still 125g per

The Ascended. A vendor in Hero's Rest sells the shards at a discount then. Zoti...something's his name.

[epigramx]

Yup, pretty much.
It's such a blatant golddrain with such limited implementation that i'm quite surprised not more people are disappointed in it; It's literally rehashed powers put on lame, expensive stat sticks.

There's no flavor or aesthetical customisation either, so yeah.
Only upside is there's no rng, but honestly between prohibitive gold costs and rng the latter is the lesser evil.

I suspect the main reason people don't hate it on a larger scale is that very few of them are crafters (on a 'hard core-ish' way at least). They will usually never consistently play the market for example so they won't give a shit if they won't progress their profession at all (but those that find it fun to play the market a lot that way: it's a really annoying system because it will either not be played at all or it will be easily a gold sink).
There is also a minority of the more hard core raiders that have guilds that craft for them everything so they never bothered with that anyway since they have no time anyway.

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So you stopped playing, fell behind, and are now salty because of that? Why should you be able to keep up with people who actually continued to play and grind while you didn't? Why not do the smart thing and get in early like everyone else and make bank before you quit? That's what I did, but that 6mil or so is sadly gonna go to waste now since I'm likely never giving Blizz money again.

Your post is effectively trolling. What they did here is broken on multiple levels and praising the devs for this system will only harm the game.
I played at the launch and I didn't try much to break even; so it has ZERO relation to grind or skill; the system is just unfair after the launch.

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No legendary should ever cost a single copper in price

It should be the reward for beating a boss on a hard difficulty, or rng drop off a specific raid boss.

The idea that it can be crafted and charged large sums of cash just screams creatively bankrupt by blizzard, which makes sense because their WoW team is legit amateur hour

Exactly; the welfare legendaries are not actually legendaries; they are time/money sinks. In reality it's a COMPLETELY different item class; this has nothing to do with skill when the main thing you need is gold (which can come from mommy's money now) and it becomes more unfair the more casual your adversaries are (since it's casuals that waste more of their time at easy grinds).
The best iteration of the legendaries was clearly Firelands; it didn't have extreme RNG *but* a good guild could accelerate it and get it MUCH FASTER than those of low skill.

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That was grossly server dependent. On my server, within a few days all legendary recipes were selling for less than crafting costs. It's also extremely easy to get the base legendary items. You just buy 1 token, sell it, bam, base legendary item. Might have to do a few days of dailies to get specific ones, but its not out of reach.

There was an opportunity to make ludicrous amounts of gold at the start: if you did it much earlier than others; I'm talking about the first 5 days when 99% of the player base had no clue what's going on in the game to care to know how crafting even works.
I didn't do it exactly that way but I could break even with the 3rd or 4th rank within the first 2-3 weeks max.
Obviously the rank 1s and 2s were ALWAYS worthless because even people with 10k gold spammed those.

[Cosmic Janitor]

No legendary should ever cost a single copper in price

It should be the reward for beating a boss on a hard difficulty, or rng drop off a specific raid boss.

The idea that it can be crafted and charged large sums of cash just screams creatively bankrupt by blizzard, which makes sense because their WoW team is legit amateur hour

I guess you didn't like thunderfury, sulfuras, etc then.

[epigramx]

an easy mistake to make if you haven't played the game in 5 years.

yes the vestige is bop but that's stupid and it shouldn't be. it should either be BoE or craftable without profession. and then it should be useable at the runecarver to upgrade your legendary like a regular upgrade.

that's a way more user friendly system.

instead right now it's just set up to increase the gold cost of legendaries. and non crafters who don't know a crafter are hit with a double whammy: they have to figure out that they have to sell their korhite crystals while they are still worth somehting since they are completely useless to them.

I think they broke it there at the level of how the entire profession collection is at this moment.
They allow you to be only a gatherer for instance; they could force a primary profession.
I know it doesn't fix it but it would make more logical sense.

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Gotta say I do not understand people who go batshit about this game and all it's failures, how everything is worse than when they first started and how it could be fixed by easily doing what they say on the forums and still pay to play. Or even worse, quit the game and still complain about it. Like what kind of hole do you guys have in your lives you're trying to fill with this stuff?

What is also worthless for a WoW discussion is going off topic in order to personally attack people as "crazy" for caring about certain aspects of the game because you don't understand how people play this game.
I think you don't understand in this case that many of us LOVE crafting and especially making gold in the auction house.
It doesn't have to be the only thing we do; e.g. a lot of us mainly like hard instances + crafting/optimal gold making.

[justandulas]

I guess you didn't like thunderfury, sulfuras, etc then.

Remind me, could you just craft those for cash in the city or did you actually need proper raid drops?

Yeah, I thought so

[epigramx]

Instead of looking at it as "expensive by force" why don't you look at it as vendor protection? I always hated it the last few expansions when trade goods like leather have a vendor price of 1c cause it gave no cushion for sellers. Because there's a vendor gold cost amount there's always going to be a minimum amount these will sell for, even as demand goes down, supply goes up, and other materials drop in price.

I don't get how that makes sense. The system inflates the price artificially since a fake person (an NPC) sink-holes gold from you to the void.
I doubt selling-to-vendor-price has much to do with this.

[callipygoustp]

"extremely offensive"

LOL what?

And, what server are you on that those items are still in the 100s of thousands of gold?

[Cosmic Janitor]

Remind me, could you just craft those for cash in the city or did you actually need proper raid drops?

Yeah, I thought so

They certainly needed a bunch of materials that were worth alot.

[epigramx]

"extremely offensive"

LOL what?

And, what server are you on that those items are still in the 100s of thousands of gold?

To go from rank 1 to rank 2 alone you need between 10k and 40k for certain items currently.
In what world does it make sense to make ZERO profit from that since DAY ONE?
I just realized how stupid it was to praise the devs for this shit even at launch.

[Doffen]

There is
Nothing of the sort (I was a heavy duty crafter for years so I know what's going on (heavy duty = I controlled the entire economy of a medium-to-large-sized realm at a certain point))

You went to far now.

No way you would even make this thread if this was the case. You would know that a heavy duty crafter would indeed use millions of gold in the beginning to get the headstart you needed to get in that position.

SL was no different in that heavy mony makers needed to be one step ahead. Either you are willfully ignoring it, or you just dont know.

[callipygoustp]

To go from rank 1 to rank 2 alone you need between 10k and 40k for certain items currently.

Extremely offensive!!!! Seriously, the title of thread cracks me up.

In what world does it make sense to make ZERO profit from that since DAY ONE?

Pretty standard for tradeskill made goods expansion to expansion. However...

I made a ridiculous, I mean an absolutely ridiculous amount of gold off the rank1-4 leather legendaries. Well over one gold cap. But, that was at the beginning. Now, most of those items are selling for a few thousand gold (on Blackrock-US). However, the rank 6s are selling like hotcakes at 100k or more profit per sale. Know your market.

I just realized how stupid it was to praise the devs for this shit even at launch.

The current state of trade skills, since BFA, is an absolute fucking joke. One of the "thousands of small cuts" leading to the death of the game imo.

edit:

No way you would even make this thread if this was the case. You would know that a heavy duty crafter would indeed use millions of gold in the beginning to get the headstart you needed to get in that position.

Solid point. I was buying up Callous hide for the first month or two for two reasons: so I could pump out the new legendaries as much as possible and so that I could keep competitors from getting the mats they needed to compete with me. (I know: what an ass!) Those mats, the callous hide, cost me a fortune, but, it payed off big time in the first few months.

[justandulas]

They certainly needed a bunch of materials that were worth alot.

but the MAIN pieces were from raids. You don't have to remind me, i grinded out TF materials solo as a tank in classic... but the bottom line is they were raid drops, like ALL legendarys should be.

it isn't really legendary if you can just spend some cash to buy it.

[Doffen]

Solid point. I was buying up Callous hide for the first month or two for two reasons: so I could pump out the new legendaries as much as possible and so that I could keep competitors from getting the mats they needed to compete with me. (I know: what an ass!) Those mats, the callous hide, cost me a fortune, but, it payed off big time in the first few months.

Man, that is SOOO

Extremely offensive!!!!

But;

The current state of trade skills, since BFA, is an absolute fucking joke. One of the "thousands of small cuts" leading to the death of the game imo.

Sadly, it is lacking. I miss the TBC era.

Remember sun motes though? 5000g for one! EXTREMELY OFFENSIVE! (Which I made Sunwell gear from, and ka-ching)