Night Elf Lands Blocked to Horde

[Soon-TM]

Dosent matter in the lore. She is still a leader of the nation (with Malf being a co-leader). Also with you having such fun... I wish you all the best when dearest Calia comes around. Also when "restored" Sylvanas gets her redemption and personally abdicates in favor of Calia, admitting that forsaken will be better off without the "sins of the banshee".

If anything, we're getting another Anduin clone shoved down our throats. Nu-Tyrande = Calia. As for Sylv gurl, she's only good for comedic value at this point lolz.

[VladlTutushkin]

If anything, we're getting another Anduin clone shoved down our throats. Nu-Tyrande = Calia. As for Sylv gurl, she's only good for comedic value at this point lolz.

Also, people always forget that for night elfs to face "entire Horde", "entire Horde" has to weaken its other fronts. Its how collective defense works, if someone attacks State A, States B, C, D and others from the defensive pact will attack the attacker. So if the enemy just gathers a huge army and rolls over a State A (through trickety or anything else) they will have their now vulnerable rear and flank attacked by other members of the pact. Thats the whole point of any defensive Alliance.

[Hellspawn]

If anything, we're getting another Anduin clone shoved down our throats. Nu-Tyrande = Calia. As for Sylv gurl, she's only good for comedic value at this point lolz.

They are both completely different and Tyrande is not a mary sue, do you even know what a marry sue is?
Tyrande is one of the few characters that was actually improved with BfA compared to before (Same for Shandris & Maiev).

[Soon-TM]

They are both completely different and Tyrande is not a mary sue, do you even know what a marry sue is?
Tyrande is one of the few characters that was actually improved with BfA compared to before (Same for Shandris & Maiev).

Tyrande... improved? Whatever you say m8...

[VladlTutushkin]

Tyrande... improved? Whatever you say m8...

Wanting to see horde dead is always an improvement for any character.

Shame it did not continued for her though.

[Hellspawn]

Tyrande... improved? Whatever you say m8...

I mean, apparently, you don't even know about her story in BfA so you don't even know what you are talking about

[Zodiark]

Well as much as I agree with some of the other posters about the horde not being allowed into Night Elf Lands. I do have to say that most of the damage caused to the Night Elven areas was the result of bad leadership. Both from Garrosh and then from Sylvannas.

[Soon-TM]

I mean, apparently, you don't even know about her story in BfA so you don't even know what you are talking about

Yeah, random powerup pulled out of Danuser's rear that doesn't actually improve her in the slightest, only to peter away when Tyrande needed it the most. Tyrande didn't need that kind of DBZ bullcrap to storm into the Wardens' vault and set Illidan (out of everyone) free, nor she did when fighting the Legion or the Naga - and she did just fine. But now she was supposed to wield this huge, self burning power which has apparently killed all the NWs before her, but in her case, it failed to do anything effective before fizzling away. Such an narrative improvement

Oh, do you mean chasing the Horde out of Darkshore? Big whoopin'-doo, it was quite easy given how the enemy chief didn't actually want to win the war, just to kill almost as many people as possible, including hordies. Did you play BfA btw? Looks like you are missing many a detail... But yes, mUh iMprOvEmENt.

[VladlTutushkin]

Well as much as I agree with some of the other posters about the horde not being allowed into Night Elf Lands. I do have to say that most of the damage caused to the Night Elven areas was the result of bad leadership. Both from Garrosh and then from Sylvannas.

And leadership is nothing without the following masses.

Also horde openly celebrated those events and generally lacks any remorse for them, hence why they should never be allowed into night elf land.

[Beloren]

I think this is a bit OT what you discuss here.
There are like six different groups of Horde players who want the Horde to be very different things (Some like evil WC2 Horde... some WC3 Horde... and so on).

In the end, it comes down to, story-wise the Horde did bad stuff (again). This time it was probably the worst stuff possible I would say. So it makes only sense that Night Elf would not accept any Horde in their land who ravage it before... twice... and killed their civilians, not only Teldrassil but also in Astranaar and other Night Elf settlements. Not saying this is a great story (it isn't). But it is how it is but at least things are not instantly forgotten (like after Cataclysm).

So this makes perfect sense to me, I would not be surprised if Night Elf secretly run sabotaging operations to hurt the Horde in Kalimdor even more.


Most play blood elf actually, or are you talking about them being ugly inside?

They are trying to do too much with the horde and not enough with the alliance.

The horde should fragment into different factions so their themes can be more uniform.

Have your Wc2 type group, your wc3 type group. Have the blood elves and Nightborne be their own thing.

Abolish player system division and never worry about faction populations. The factions only exist in the lore essentially even though you pick one on character screen,

They can now be free to write far more interesting scenarios.

While the horde and alliance can exist, they shouldn’t be the only major player factions.

I still feel the wc3 factions were the best. Alliance, Horde, Night elves, Undead and Illidari

And I would write them back into their own

1. The night elves split from the alliance losing all confidence after the response of Stormwind. They aren’t enemies but they’ve gone their way

New race night elf Worgen join them. Also the broken isle Night elves and Nightborne join them. Void elves get into more trouble with the light fearing humans

But are drawn strongly to the power of the black moon, some void elves join the order of Elune, less zealous and more pragmatic, others continue their research, great friends with Nightborne and Highborne, druids also work with void elves to defend the emerald dream and turn the infested portions to gain

All purple elves are in in one faction.
Nee race: Dream Worgen: Night elves who lived in the emerald dream for millennia after the war of the ancients. They have animal features and have an animal hybrid form one of which is Worgen (different model from gilneans) , bird man (similar to Arrokao). A bear man ( like the Druid Mage tower guardian appearance) a panther man (like the Saveron)


Races: Night elves, Nightborne, Void Elves, Dream Worgen

Illidari - Now known as The Redeemed! it seemed that Draenei and blood elves were at war or hated each other and it would never change.

You were wrong! Velen is hugely respected in Quel’thalas, and the events of 2.4 gained more cross factional friends than enemies. Draenei and blood elves got along better and bette robot clashing in warfronts because their allies were squabbling

Illidan and Velen became great friends to. You can be friends and practice totally different magics, respect each other and form a bond

With the Illidari come 2 powerful groups seeking some form of redemption. Naga no longer under the thrall of an old god and Eredar who always regretted joining the legion.

They fight powerful Lieutenants of the Legion that seek to take over and control even restore the Legion

New playable Race: Naga (who also get an elf form variation - Naz’dorei is their name)

Races: Illidari, Blood Elves, Draenei, Naga

Horde: actually, no one misses blood elves, Nightborne or forsaken. One was hardly ever in it, the other didn’t seem truly interested at all in the rest of the faction and the 3rd was constantly causing more trouble than it was worth.

The horde now focused on re aligning its values, uniting the trolls and restoring the honour of the orcs to ensure they wil always remain true to who they are.

Horde: Orcs, Trolls (5 kinds), Tauren

Alliance: The only change here is the departure of the night elves, void elves and Draenei , but the highbelves are in it. High elf has now come to mean human friendly.

There really isn’t much animosity betwee Thalassians, though some still hold grudging sand mistrust. But high elves are particularly human friendly. Friendly for an elf that is.


New race: high elf.
Members: Human, Dwarves, High Elves, Gnomes, Gilnean Worgen

Undead: the Lich King Bolvar has the job of stewarding the group of people that are in undeath. Free will exists at his discretion, undead come in every race, and some, like vampires, can be very very powerful.

Undead are now necessary to maintain the shadowlands breach in balance. And are not the only race of the dead able to connect with the living.

To ensure the breach maintains the flow of life, the 4 shadowlands races now have factions that crossed into Azeroth to protect this balance.

Undead: Forsaken, Venthyr, Night fae, San’layn, Kyrian, San’layn.

Goblins and Pandas can pick any faction
Any race can join any faction they are not part of by doing a series of quests and reputation building. However you’d be a minority

[Zodiark]

True but people are shaped by their leaders. Never under estimate the power of charisma. So by your logic all Germans are evil and shouldn't ever be allowed in Jerusalem.

[Eazy]

True but people are shaped by their leaders. Never under estimate the power of charisma. So by your logic all Germans are evil and shouldn't ever be allowed in Jerusalem.

Although I get your point, the people who burned the night elves home to the ground are still alive... and whole horde participated in it(I mean every race was there).

It's obvious that the Night Elves don't want any of the horde characters on their ground. Especially in a world, where you seriously shouldn't believe anyone(see Garona case for example).

[Hellspawn]

Yeah, random powerup pulled out of Danuser's rear that doesn't actually improve her in the slightest, only to peter away when Tyrande needed it the most. Tyrande didn't need that kind of DBZ bullcrap to storm into the Wardens' vault and set Illidan (out of everyone) free, nor she did when fighting the Legion or the Naga - and she did just fine. But now she was supposed to wield this huge, self burning power which has apparently killed all the NWs before her, but in her case, it failed to do anything effective before fizzling away. Such an narrative improvement

Oh, do you mean chasing the Horde out of Darkshore? Big whoopin'-doo, it was quite easy given how the enemy chief didn't actually want to win the war, just to kill almost as many people as possible, including hordies. Did you play BfA btw? Looks like you are missing many a detail... But yes, mUh iMprOvEmENt.

I agree that she did not need the Night Warrior, but on the other side, it did not make things worse. She did not forgive the Horde at the end of BfA. All in all its a net positive over her narration in Cataclysm.

Oh, do you mean chasing the Horde out of Darkshore? Big whoopin'-doo, it was quite easy given how the enemy chief didn't actually want to win the war, just to kill almost as many people as possible, including hordies. Did you play BfA btw? Looks like you are missing many a detail... But yes, mUh iMprOvEmENt.

I doubt she wanted to actively lose there. She sent Nathanos and two of her Val'kyr. It was the second major warfront.

[baskev]

I mean there's no way Teldrassil is gray in wow. I mean, the only way to be "gray" is for the Alliance to do something this horrible first. But that would make the Alliance absurdly bad. (So we're on the same thing)

We could go as far as trying to say that the Alliance makes a renegade genocium but it is still clearly evil. (Although maybe not for some Blizzard writer)

Again, your english might be worse then mine.

Did i say teldrassil is grey? <> Nope. you are turning i think i like the weather comment into: i love the sun, hate rain. You filling in blanks that are not there.

Only to be grey is for the alliance to do something horrible first <> dude that is what i have been saying from the start. And it still would not have justified it. But made the war a 2 sided event. instead bad orcs, zug zug.
It soften the blow somewhat.

[geco]

Did i say teldrassil is grey? <> Nope. you are turning i think i like the weather comment into: i love the sun, hate rain. You filling in blanks that are not there.

Ok my bad then.

Only to be grey is for the alliance to do something horrible first <> dude that is what i have been saying from the start. And it still would not have justified it. But made the war a 2 sided event. instead bad orcs, zug zug.
It soften the blow somewhat.

It still doesn't work. The aggression "jump" is simply absurd.
We could only manage to go from "zug zug I'm bad" to "work work I'm bad".

[Dellis0991]

In the new Exploring Kalimdor book, Velen tells Zekhan and Rexxar that even as explorers and cartographers, they are not allowed into Night Elf lands "for clear reasons".

What does this spell out for any future expansion that takes place on EK or Kalimdor? We have yet to see an event that would really convince them to let the Horde players into their lands, and it runs against the ongoing theme of neutrality that seems like it will be continued in the future. See: Calia being groomed for the position of Forsaken queen, who likely would let Alliance in her lands.

Is this just a reason to hide Night Elf zone development from lore, or will this Night Elf blockade continue into the future?

Everything is still very raw for the night elves, it's highly understandable that the horde should stay the fuck out and let them work their shit out.

[cparle87]

You mean how orcs kept raiding their land even when they had a trade deal and peace treaty for years and they only broke the treaty when Twilight Hammer dressed as Horde brutally killed and skinned a peaceful druid delegation?

Source that they kept raiding the land after they had the trade deal? And don't you think it's funny that the elves were so quick to blame the Horde after they literally just got done blaming the Horde for something, the Wrathgate, only to find it was a Legion plot. "Yo, the Legion just got done framing you for doing something wrong, so we're gonna totally believe you're guilty this time and unilaterally break off a trade treaty you desperately need during a period of upheaval. No way that can go wrong, amirite?"

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No I was talking about the Orcs that raided Ashenvale at least twice, happily murdered civilians from Ashenvale to Teldrassil without any remorse and steal resources without asking and blight the land with their allies.

To think that Orcs have any moral high ground or if all of that was in any way morally gray and I'm including the Cata stuff here. You are either a troll or you have a very distorted world view.

The elves attacked first without any provocation in WC3. The Horde established a trade agreement with them to harvest lumber under the guidance of druids, which the elves unilaterally broke after the Wrathgate, despite it being revealed to be a Legion plot to frame them. Then later accused them of slaughtering druids, which was a frameup that the Twilight Hammer pulled, despite the Wrathgate setup being fresh in people's minds. How many times can the elves be duped into believing the orcs to be attackers and lashing out at them before the orcs get tired of diplomacy and just go to take what they want. Seems the answer is three times.

[VladlTutushkin]

Source that they kept raiding the land after they had the trade deal? And don't you think it's funny that the elves were so quick to blame the Horde after they literally just got done blaming the Horde for something, the Wrathgate, only to find it was a Legion plot. "Yo, the Legion just got done framing you for doing something wrong, so we're gonna totally believe you're guilty this time and unilaterally break off a trade treaty you desperately need during a period of upheaval. No way that can go wrong, amirite?"

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The elves attacked first without any provocation in WC3. The Horde established a trade agreement with them to harvest lumber under the guidance of druids, which the elves unilaterally broke after the Wrathgate, despite it being revealed to be a Legion plot to frame them. Then later accused them of slaughtering druids, which was a frameup that the Twilight Hammer pulled, despite the Wrathgate setup being fresh in people's minds. How many times can the elves be duped into believing the orcs to be attackers and lashing out at them before the orcs get tired of diplomacy and just go to take what they want. Seems the answer is three times.

Warsong Clan kept attacking night elves since Vanilla, hence the Warsong Gulch backstory. Thrall knew about it but feared that if he cracks down on Warsong and orders them to stop other orcs will stop respecting him so he just did nothing.

Also night elfs first asked Garrosh if he knew anything to which he said that he dosent care and EVEN if those were his orcs who did that he wouldnt punish them because he dosent see anything wrong with the slaughter. Hence why elfs cut the trade.

Orcs only have themselves to blame for their shitty attitude and bad planning, when they got Azshara they wasted ALL resources there in three years. A zone that was literally untouched by industry before that. Because they dont care about efficiency, smart use of materials or anything else. They even allowed goblins to poison local water sources.

[Hellspawn]

The elves attacked first without any provocation in WC3. The Horde established a trade agreement with them to harvest lumber under the guidance of druids, which the elves unilaterally broke after the Wrathgate, despite it being revealed to be a Legion plot to frame them. Then later accused them of slaughtering druids, which was a frameup that the Twilight Hammer pulled, despite the Wrathgate setup being fresh in people's minds. How many times can the elves be duped into believing the orcs to be attackers and lashing out at them before the orcs get tired of diplomacy and just go to take what they want. Seems the answer is three times.

The Orks could have asked their Tauren allies about Ashenvale. Remember, the Orcs are green because of the demon blood they drank in WC1.
For the elves, they just looked just like another kind of demonic creature, even if they were informed about the Orcs. Why would they think anything else about Orcs from the stuff they have done in WC1 and WC2. The Orcs knew that they were not welcome in these woods but they still pushed forward even drank demon blood to archive their goals.

The diplomacy stuff aside. Garrosh probably did not even want to try, he loved the old Horde that just goes to war and take what they want.
Orcs had no claim for anything in Ashenvale, it was their choice to settle into a dessert. Garrosh did not just take the resources, they butchered the Night Elfs brutally in Cataclysm. What kind of diplomacy is that where you just attack the other side of you don't get what you want?

Looking at all the small fights between Horde and Alliance in Vanilla the Orcs did not exactly improve their standing with the Night Elf, they actively pushed them to join the Alliance.

And finally with BfA we saw again that distrust in Orcs and the Horde was right. The Horde not only butchered civilians down in every village between Ogrimmar and Teldrassil, they also burned down the tree with mostly civilians on it.


Also, see what VladlTutushkin said.

[VladlTutushkin]

The Orks could have asked their Tauren allies about Ashenvale. Remember, the Orcs are green because of the demon blood they drank in WC1.
For the elves, they just looked just like another kind of demonic creature, even if they were informed about the Orcs. Why would they think anything else about Orcs from the stuff they have done in WC1 and WC2. The Orcs knew that they were not welcome in these woods but they still pushed forward even drank demon blood to archive their goals.

The diplomacy stuff aside. Garrosh probably did not even want to try, he loved the old Horde that just goes to war and take what they want.
Orcs had no claim for anything in Ashenvale, it was their choice to settle into a dessert. Garrosh did not just take the resources, they butchered the Night Elfs brutally in Cataclysm. What kind of diplomacy is that where you just attack the other side of you don't get what you want?

Looking at all the small fights between Horde and Alliance in Vanilla the Orcs did not exactly improve their standing with the Night Elf, they actively pushed them to join the Alliance.

And finally with BfA we saw again that distrust in Orcs and the Horde was right. The Horde not only butchered civilians down in every village between Ogrimmar and Teldrassil, they also burned down the tree with mostly civilians on it.


Also, see what VladlTutushkin said.

To add to that. Despite that most horde players will never "agree" that this is canon (as if opinion of players matters to blizz), "War Crimes" has Garrosh talking to Anduin where Andy just asks him, hypothetically, if all that war, slaughter and everything else could have being avoided if Alliance just caved in and GAVE him a King's ransom of resources and land enough to ensure Horde's economic prosperity.

To which Garrosh said that NO, that would change fuck nothing since war was as much about reinforcing the "true way" of the Horde as Garrosh envisioned it and about going to war with Alliance in the same vein that for example in real life Germany opposed "judeo bolshevism" or Crusades opposed "heathens who hold Holy Land".

It was his Holy War, his Jihad, his Push to the East. He wouldnt just give up the fight if resources and some land concessions were given to him.

Sylvanas even comes to the similar conclusion when she muses how drowning Stormwind in blood will "sate the Horde's bloodlust" for a very long time.