Afrasiabi left Blizzard?

[Kathranis]

So, Robert Bridenbecker also just got outed. And after Morhaime put out his statement, Cher Scarlett said that when she was working at Blizzard (2015-2016) she was threatened physically, and after informing Morhaime about it directly via email, she was reprimanded. She also says she saw Afrasiabi and Bridenbecker engage in harassment, as well as other members of leadership at the time.

Given that this investigation has been ongoing since 2018 or 2019, it's making a lot of these recent departures feel suspicious to me. At the time people thought it was because Blizzard "lost its soul" but it now seems like they might have been trying to make a clean break before the shit hit the fan.

I've said it before, but as more details come out and more people get implicated, it's hard to imagine any of these high profile people in leadership positions didn't know this was going on.

[Vespian]

All I'm going to add to the discussion is this.

I see a lot of default condemnation on Twitter, YT, you name it. I see a lot of cancel culture being sparked. Fire them, take everything from them, the works.

First and foremost; We the audience do not have any physical or digital evidence that any of this took place. We have words from both sides. Lots of words. Lots of horrendous words that make our guts twist, but nonetheless, words. If there is proof, it will be presented in court. If court deems the proof sufficient, justice will be served.

Second; A lot of the allegations read like mustache twirling villainy towards women and non-white races. The fact that certain scenes are depicted as lewd or inappropriate, while for all we know, they could have been a small collection of harmless flirts over the course of 30 years, they are being condensed in this case. They are being worded to make that case look strong, but that doesn't mean the intent has been dark. For the record: Some things are obviously inexcusable and the individuals should be fired for it, if true. I think a lot of the allegations are true. But I'm not the judge and in the end a small condensed string of events, that in reality may have occurred spread out, makes us less capable of judging with a clear mind. We have allegations, not facts. Allegations are tonally different from facts. We should pursue facts.

And I'm saying this without any love for Blizzard as it is. I do have love for Blizzard as it was. They made some of the best games of my childhood. However, I do not confuse my relationship with Blizzard. I am a customer, a consumer, a gamer. Blizzard is selling me a product and I either approve or disapprove of that product or the course of the company, which has lead me to stop buying WoW expansions, for example. That said; Every individual has the right to be judged in court. Every individual has the right to be innocent until proven guilty in the court of law and that is the way.

The Depp vs Heard case is a prime example of the reason why we should ever be vigilant.

[infinitemeridian]

All I'm going to add to the discussion is this.

I see a lot of default condemnation on Twitter, YT, you name it. I see a lot of cancel culture being sparked. Fire them, take everything from them, the works.

First and foremost; We the audience do not have any physical or digital evidence that any of this took place. We have words from both sides. Lots of words. Lots of horrendous words that make our guts twist, but nonetheless, words. If there is proof, it will be presented in court. If court deems the proof sufficient, justice will be served.

Second; A lot of the allegations read like mustache twirling villainy towards women and non-white races. The fact that certain scenes are depicted as lewd or inappropriate, while for all we know, they could have been a small collection of harmless flirts over the course of 30 years, they are being condensed in this case. They are being worded to make that case look strong, but that doesn't mean the intent has been dark. For the record: Some things are obviously inexcusable and the individuals should be fired for it, if true. I think a lot of the allegations are true. But I'm not the judge and in the end a small condensed string of events, that in reality may have occurred spread out, makes us less capable of judging with a clear mind. We have allegations, not facts. Allegations are tonally different from facts. We should pursue facts.

And I'm saying this without any love for Blizzard as it is. I do have love for Blizzard as it was. They made some of the best games of my childhood. However, I do not confuse my relationship with Blizzard. I am a customer, a consumer, a gamer. Blizzard is selling me a product and I either approve or disapprove of that product or the course of the company, which has lead me to stop buying WoW expansions, for example. That said; Every individual has the right to be judged in court. Every individual has the right to be innocent until proven guilty in the court of law and that is the way.

The Depp vs Heard case is a prime example of the reason why we should ever be vigilant.

We don't need any more concern posting. It's pretty clearcut what happened / is happening at Blizz, there is no defending this and its nothing like the Depp vs. Heard case (where both parties are pieces of shit btw) either.

[masterhorus8]

All I'm going to add to the discussion is this.

I see a lot of default condemnation on Twitter, YT, you name it. I see a lot of cancel culture being sparked. Fire them, take everything from them, the works.

First and foremost; We the audience do not have any physical or digital evidence that any of this took place. We have words from both sides. Lots of words. Lots of horrendous words that make our guts twist, but nonetheless, words. If there is proof, it will be presented in court. If court deems the proof sufficient, justice will be served.

Second; A lot of the allegations read like mustache twirling villainy towards women and non-white races. The fact that certain scenes are depicted as lewd or inappropriate, while for all we know, they could have been a small collection of harmless flirts over the course of 30 years, they are being condensed in this case. They are being worded to make that case look strong, but that doesn't mean the intent has been dark. For the record: Some things are obviously inexcusable and the individuals should be fired for it, if true. I think a lot of the allegations are true. But I'm not the judge and in the end a small condensed string of events, that in reality may have occurred spread out, makes us less capable of judging with a clear mind. We have allegations, not facts. Allegations are tonally different from facts. We should pursue facts.

And I'm saying this without any love for Blizzard as it is. I do have love for Blizzard as it was. They made some of the best games of my childhood. However, I do not confuse my relationship with Blizzard. I am a customer, a consumer, a gamer. Blizzard is selling me a product and I either approve or disapprove of that product or the course of the company, which has lead me to stop buying WoW expansions, for example. That said; Every individual has the right to be judged in court. Every individual has the right to be innocent until proven guilty in the court of law and that is the way.

The Depp vs Heard case is a prime example of the reason why we should ever be vigilant.

You do know that this case isn't accusing Blizz of having sexual harassment, right? This is beyond that, saying that they didn't do what they needed to after it already happened. This is based on the groundwork that the sexual harassment is a fact.

[Berndorf]

So, Robert Bridenbecker also just got outed. And after Morhaime put out his statement, Cher Scarlett said that when she was working at Blizzard (2015-2016) she was threatened physically, and after informing Morhaime about it directly via email, she was reprimanded. She also says she saw Afrasiabi and Bridenbecker engage in harassment, as well as other members of leadership at the time.

Given that this investigation has been ongoing since 2018 or 2019, it's making a lot of these recent departures feel suspicious to me. At the time people thought it was because Blizzard "lost its soul" but it now seems like they might have been trying to make a clean break before the shit hit the fan.

I've said it before, but as more details come out and more people get implicated, it's hard to imagine any of these high profile people in leadership positions didn't know this was going on.

I agree to a large degree. I think it's been their dirty little secret for a long time. They all knew that the environment was not good for female employees but no one wanted to rock the boat because of how much money the company was making or because they were participating in the culture and liked it that way.

[Vespian]

You do know that this case isn't accusing Blizz of having sexual harassment, right? This is beyond that, saying that they didn't do what they needed to after it already happened. This is based on the groundwork that the sexual harassment is a fact.

Is it though? We know there has been an investigation and now there is a case with allegations.

Nothing more. You know jack shit.

And I'll make myself clear yet again, I'm not defending anyone. I'm defending the right to have a trial first.

We don't need any more concern posting. It's pretty clearcut what happened / is happening at Blizz, there is no defending this and its nothing like the Depp vs. Heard case (where both parties are pieces of shit btw) either.

Excepting it seems, that mr.Depp didn't do anything he has been alleged to have done.

[Kathranis]

I agree to a large degree. I think it's been their dirty little secret for a long time. They all knew that the environment was not good for female employees but no one wanted to rock the boat because of how much money the company was making or because they were participating in the culture and liked it that way.

I mean, I'd say there are more possible reasons than that. I know how toxic work environments can get. Some people lose hope and just start going through the motions. Some fear retaliation or exclusion. Some fear losing their income and benefits. I can't really blame people for not whistleblowing, nor do I expect anyone, even the abused, to up and quit their jobs in protest.

But it's hard to give senior leadership a pass, knowing how tightly knit the teams were, especially in the early days. And I'm trying not to jump to conclusions, but there's been all these departures over the last 4-5 years and still we're only hearing about this now. With litigation pending, I know there could be gag orders and NDAs, so... it is what it is.

It does sound like there have been people trying to fight this culture internally, and I can imagine countless different scenarios for why it went on for so long, so I guess all we can do is hope the truth comes out and the necessary changes happen.

[Berndorf]

I mean, I'd say there are more possible reasons than that. I know how toxic work environments can get. Some people lose hope and just start going through the motions. Some fear retaliation or exclusion. Some fear losing their income and benefits. I can't really blame people for not whistleblowing, nor do I expect anyone, even the abuses, to up and quit their jobs in protest.

But it's hard to give senior leadership a pass, knowing how tightly knit the teams were, especially in the early days. And I'm trying not to jump to conclusions, but there's been all these departures over the last 4-5 years and still we're only hearing about this now. With litigation pending, I know there could be gag orders and NDAs, so... it is what it is.

It does sound like there have been people trying to fight this culture internally, and I can imagine countless different scenarios for why it went on for so long, so I guess all we can do is hope the truth comes out and the necessary changes happen.

I was speaking mainly of the people near the top. I think they just hoped it wasn't as pervasive as it turned out to likely be and didn't want to fire some of those involved for it while also having to publicly admit that it was going on. Some of them were clearly involved as well. Which happens a lot in companies because the people near the top generally don't fear getting caught as much because they think they are above being punished. It's very easy for this sort of behavior to become systematic which has been seen in the media, entertainment and the military.

[Voidwielder]

I don't see how JAB or the rest of them do not resign come Monday. They ought to, anyway.

[masterhorus8]

Is it though? We know there has been an investigation and now there is a case with allegations.

Nothing more. You know jack shit.

And I'll make myself clear yet again, I'm not defending anyone. I'm defending the right to have a trial first.

Yeah, you seriously need to read the case. Because apparently you're the one that knows "jack shit".

As I said, and I'll say it again. This lawsuit isn't about whether or not sexual misconduct happened. This is about the steps taken AFTER it happened. Meaning, for a fact, that it happened. The sexual misconduct doesn't require a lawsuit to have happened if Blizz was cooperating in the first place. But California is saying that they didn't follow through with what they needed to do AFTER that.

And lastly, the chances of this actually getting a trial or not is pretty slim. This is a civil case (not criminal) and can very easily be resolved before that. The DFEH filed this to get the legal system to force Blizz to follow through. It's a back and forth with waves of doc submissions in response to the other.

So please, enlighten yourself before trying to pretend to be an armchair lawyer and failing miserably at it.

[Berndorf]

I don't see how JAB or the rest of them do not resign come Monday. They ought to, anyway.

I don't see any of them resigning but I would hope to see many of them being forced out very soon.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

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Last time I posted here was 2015.

Let's see is it someone DEFENDING Blizzard?

Oh, yeah! Full throated defender!

Someone who'd report "Ur Mad, Bro?" as "trolling" as they're HOT under the collar, too???

Their goal isn't to DEFEND Blizzard -- it's just to remove ANY opposition of their HOLIER THAN THOU GODS.

Like Furor "I HATE PALADINS" Planedefiler did in EQ when his Guardian wasn't a Blue PLATE "special" (the whole Blue Tags "special-ness" FoH brought over to WoW -- even at Christmas parties. THAT is HOW petty Blizzard management is!!!).

Furor's gone. He can join Mark Kern with the Gamergate 3.0 with Mike Morhaime at the helm of his new company, and hopefully born-women anywhere else can just play video games like they have been playing since the 1970s even!

[Vespian]

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Last time I posted here was 2015.

Let's see is it someone DEFENDING Blizzard?

Oh, yeah! Full throated defender!

Someone who'd report "Ur Mad, Bro?" as "trolling" as they're HOT under the collar, too???

Their goal isn't to DEFEND Blizzard -- it's just to remove ANY opposition of their HOLIER THAN THOU GODS.

Like Furor "I HATE PALADINS" Planedefiler did in EQ when his Guardian wasn't a Blue PLATE "special" (the whole Blue Tags "special-ness" FoH brought over to WoW -- even at Christmas parties. THAT is HOW petty Blizzard management is!!!).

Furor's gone. He can join Mark Kern with the Gamergate 3.0 with Mike Morhaime at the helm of his new company, and hopefully born-women anywhere else can just play video games like they have been playing since the 1970s even!

I'm assuming you're referencing me, apologies if you're not. I have no fucking clue who you are, but I can see why you would have me blocked. I'm not very nice to people that can't even put together a single coherent sentence. Especially considering 6 years ago, it was probably worse.

If you wanted to make a point, should have gone back to school.

- - - Updated - - -

Yeah, you seriously need to read the case. Because apparently you're the one that knows "jack shit".

As I said, and I'll say it again. This lawsuit isn't about whether or not sexual misconduct happened. This is about the steps taken AFTER it happened. Meaning, for a fact, that it happened. The sexual misconduct doesn't require a lawsuit to have happened if Blizz was cooperating in the first place. But California is saying that they didn't follow through with what they needed to do AFTER that.

And lastly, the chances of this actually getting a trial or not is pretty slim. This is a civil case (not criminal) and can very easily be resolved before that. The DFEH filed this to get the legal system to force Blizz to follow through. It's a back and forth with waves of doc submissions in response to the other.

Unless you can prove these facts of yours, all American media are only reporting allegations. I have only read a court document that's stating allegations and I have not seen any verdict.

Facts have proof. Where's the proof. Where's the admission. Where is it?

And I repeat again, because clearly it needs repeating for the religious zealots, do the crime, do the time. But first through the court of law.

[Kevyne-Shandris]

I'm assuming you're referencing me, apologies if you're not. I have no fucking clue who you are, but I can see why you would have me blocked.

WHAT?

When I say full throated defender, they're few and they argue in a certain "lawyer speak" and "PROVE IT" manner (even when you do, they simply argue otherwise) to get folks scrapbotted/moderated (and God do they RAT). The, "HOW DARE YOU NOT BELIEVE IN MY GODS AND MY SCRIPTURE!" rampage.

On topics like this that no one has ALL the FACTS (now not even Blizzard), they argue innocence until PROVEN guilty, etc., etc., etc. Meanwhile, Rome burns while we're scrapbotted/moderated and told, "DON'T SPREAD CONSPIRACIES!!!". A form of "soft" NDA.

Once they're /ignored forum life is much better!

[Vespian]

WHAT?

When I say full throated defender, they're few and they argue in a certain "lawyer speak" and "PROVE IT" manner (even when you do, they simply argue otherwise) to get folks scrapbotted/moderated (and God do they RAT). The, "HOW DARE YOU NOT BELIEVE IN MY GODS AND MY SCRIPTURE!" rampage.

On topics like this that no one has ALL the FACTS (now not even Blizzard), they argue innocence until PROVEN guilty, etc., etc., etc. Meanwhile, Rome burns while we're scrapbotted/moderated and told, "DON'T SPREAD CONSPIRACIES!!!". A form of "soft" NDA.

Once they're /ignored forum life is much better!

Hmm. Well lets try to answer this point for point. In reverse.

If the forums try to stop you from voicing your opinion, civilly, then I'm against that, because I'm for free speech. The only exception being calls for violence.

This also directly relates to being cautious about accusations, because we do not trust opinions, we trust facts. You are allowed to say what you want, but if you want to accuse others of terrible deeds, that would require some proof.

For example, the suicide of that lady probably happened, she probably was harassed, but if the circulating of the photo with the private parts is true, there will be evidence to support it l and in my humble opinion, that should be pursued criminally.

Now, the only one going on rampage about gods and worship is you. Im a 36 year old Dutch gamer who has left his mesmerizing teens behind for quite a while now. Sure, some people never grow up, but in general people stop assuming the black and white righteousness of other people at some point and I would say that every single human being is capable of doin bad things, deliberately or by accident, so no, I'm not defending Blizzard. Just human basic rights. And if it turns out that they are actually violating others human rights, that should be put to a stop.

I'm also not armchair lawyering. I'm not going into the details of the case, I'm not suggesting an outcome. I'm just strongly against cancel culture and we have seen many examples of that the past few years. Every man or woman has the right to due process.

Now, a little bit of advice to you. Your writing reads like its being spoken by that BTC guy. The old one with the pink glasses. Its not the most readable stuff. Let's have a conversation instead of these crazy rants with a lot CAPS and all sorts of gods involved.

[Dhrizzle]

Bobby Kodick isn't hiding how much he despise us and how much he hates video games, heck his own quote he wants to remove fun from video games (u can argue he meant industry of making video games, but even if u try twist it that way, it still fucked up, he wants ppl who make video games souless mindless drones who have zero fun in their job, and again u are twisting his words, he was clear he wants to remove fun from video games)
So why exactly would a company under his command for years still keep passion he not just lack, but despise and hate and isn't hiding it

The quote was to investors to let them know they take the business side seriously. Whatever you want to twist that into it still remains irrelevant to whatever is happening here.

[rrayy]

His argument has no logical connection.

I can easily attribute my disliking of something to the lack of passion of its maker. You know, especially when comparing that something to their previous work.

And the brown-nosing goes to his previous post history. Just like yours.

No you can't. You do it to try to make your opinion fact. All devs have passion and would n't be doing their jobs if they didn't. One only needs to look at those that left Blizzard to prove it. They lost their passion for the stuff they were working on at Blizzard, so they quit for something they do have passion about.

- - - Updated - - -

You're the one conflating right now. What I said is that upper management interference can get in the way of devs having passion. Unless you actually work at Bliz as a dev I don't wanna hear how much you think you know about what it's like to work there. Some of the people who have left in recent years have commented.

then you should not either. After all you are the one, throwing declarations about what is going one there. All I said was that deves have passion for their work. You are guilty of what you accuse me of.

[Rennadrel]

I don't know whether Roux' tweets qualify as "sexist" or not, but they are certainly disgusting. If it was a male employee/contractor posting similar BS about females (or about anyone, for that matter), he'd probably be fired on the spot and possibly sued - and deservedly so. But in the case of Ms. Roux, being a cousin to one of Blizz bigwigs might be a thing, I guess...

More on topic, the reasons for Afrasiabi's silent depart and posterior disappearance from social media might be clearer now. Why is it that those who engage so hard in virtue signaling often end up being the biggest hypocrites?

The biggest champions for social justice tend to be the people with the most skeletons in their closets. Frankly, a lot of them, especially the men, wind up being the biggest sex pests and creeps (just look at Peter Bright).

I'm sure we've all made mistakes in the past, but whether we better ourselves and learn from them is another thing entirely. I count myself lucky that my workplace has a pretty even keel and tolerant culture, so the women I work with don't have to worry about harassment from the guys and if it happens, it's dealt with right away.

[conceptKitty]

Maybe he's been involved in some #metoo stuff grabbing colleagues asses or something that forced him to leave and Blizzard sweeping it under the rug tp avoid bad publicity right before upcoming release of Shadowlands?

Kinda sad to see how on point this was.

[Kathranis]

Worth a watch. Scott Johnson is close to a lot of Blizzard folks and has hosted the Q&A at Blizzcon a few times. Has a lot to say about the situation and in particular is pretty disgusted at having ever even been on stage with Alex Afrasiabi, who he says is now "living in Hawaii with a million dollars made into a golden parachute." He also says he has spoken at length with people he really respects who were victimized, who are still working at Blizzard, so he knows for sure that it was going on, regardless of some of the statements from management.