Is racial segregation an English cultural feature?

[Elegiac]

No, it's a western one and has been so since about 1500.

Jane Elliot described the western attitude to skin color (what people try to call "race") best "white is right, brown's alright, yellow let mellow, black stay back."

[Nork]

No, it's a western one and has been so since about 1500.

How do you explain then that some colonial powers were more racist than others? The most racist countries in the world were part of the British Empire... Does English/British culture have anything to do with that?

[Elegiac]

How do you explain then that some colonial powers were more racist than others?

The answer is "they were all racist, it's not a competition, Pam."

[callipygoustp]

When you look at the British Empire and then see the countries that stemmed from it, there is one feature shared between most of them (especially the ones with higher amount of white immigrants): racial segregation. The United States, South Africa, Australia, Canada...

Many people could say that racial segregation is something from the past and it's not longer an issue, but unfortunately it's kind of obvious that racial discrimination is still a thing in those countries (even within the United Kingdom).

If you're from one of those countries, why do you think this is happening? Is English culture intoxicated with racism? Is it due to a narrow-minded imperialistic mentality? Do you believe white native English speakers see themselves as superior?

Do you not know anyone from Asia? Seriously. Talk to an Indian. Talk to someone from China. Talk to someone from Myanamar. Or even better, talk to someone from Bangladesh.

And lets not pick on the Asian continent. Talk to people from the Congo.....

Forget talking to people, pick up a god dam international newspaper.

In case this isn't what I suspect it to be (a bait post) I am genuinely curious where the hell you live, and where were you educated that you DON'T already know that racial segregation IS NOT just an English cultural feature - racial segregation is a HUMAN cultural feature.

[Nork]

The answer is "they were all racist, it's not a competition, Pam."

That's a simple answer. Some empires didn't develop a racial segregation system, however, others did. It's not about competition, it's about cultural features that help racism to grow up stronger in certain societies.

[Saltysquidoon]

Oh, here we go. I was talking about English speaking countries, I've never said that other empires or colonial powers weren't racist. But anyway, you are telling me I've never read a history book or watched a documentary, so tell me what kind of racial segregation existed in New France, please. I'm eager to read your answer.

Oh, are you talking about the racial segregation other than the slavery? Or did you just forget about that little oopsie doopsie?

What???? Hahahah Jews were EXPELLED in 'Spain' and Portugal, not segregated, you ignorant. Do me a favour, read a bloody history book about the history of Spain.

Anyway, we are talking about colonialism, remember that when you bring up your arguments. Jews weren't colonised within the Iberian Peninsula, you ignorant.

First of all they were segregated

We send to the aljamas of the said Jews and Moors: that each of them be put in said separation [by] such procedure and such order that within the said term of the said two years they [shall] have the said houses of their separation, and live and die in them, and henceforth not have their dwellings among the Christians or elsewhere outside the designated areas and places that have been assigned to the said Jewish and Moorish quarters.

Apparently along with the moors, before they were expelled.

Secondly, expelling a racial group from your country is segregation it is the most complete form of segregation.

Thirdly, A culture that practices racial segregation domestically is defacto a racially segregated culture everywhere

Fourthly, the Spanish and the French participated in the slave trade so yes they practised racial segregation in their colonies

Finally, the Casta is literally a formal form of segregation based around the 'purity of the blood'.

[Nork]

Do you not know anyone from Asia? Seriously. Talk to an Indian. Talk to someone from China. Talk to someone from Myanamar. Or even better, talk to someone from Bangladesh.

And lets not pick on the Asian continent. Talk to people from the Congo.....

Forget talking to people, pick up a god dam international newspaper.

In case this isn't what I suspect it to be (a bait post) I am genuinely curious where the hell you live, and where were you educated that you DON'T already know that racial segregation IS NOT just an English cultural feature - racial segregation is a HUMAN cultural feature.

I didn't say racism was only an English thing, did I?

It is not a human cultural feature since some empires didn't develop racial segregation systems like the British one.

[Elegiac]

That's a simple answer. Some empires didn't develop a racial segregation system, however, others did.

They were all fundamentally based in a cultural perception that humans could be organized in a hierarchy based on skin color, regardless of the degree to which those institutions reflected that.

Once again, it's not a competition because giving a particular empire the "#1 At Racism" trophy does fuck all to actually address systemic racism.

[Nork]

Oh, are you talking about the racial segregation other than the slavery? Or did you just forget about that little oopsie doopsie?

First of all they were segregated

Apparently along with the moores before they were expelled.

Secondly, expelling a racial group from your country is segregation it is the most complete form of segregation.

Thirdly, A culture that practices racial segregation domestically is defacto a racially segregated culture everywhere

Fourthly, the Spanish and the French participated in the slave trade so yes they practised racial segregation in their colonies

Finally, the Casta is literally a formal form of segregation based around the 'purity of the blood'.

Well, if I have to explain to you that all this was about racial segregation, I guess you can't cope with this topic, I'm afraid.

That segregation you're talking about was common within the Iberian Peninsula during the Middle Ages and it was both ways (Christians were also segregated in Al-Andalus). But as I said, we are talking about COLONIALISM. Limit yourself to the topic and stop talking about things that hasn't got anything to do with it.

The Spanish Empire did not treat native Americans in the same way as British people did. Mixed marriages were allowed and they tried, probably not in the best way, to integrate them in their society, which is something British settlers NEVER DID. Read a bloody history book.

[draynay]

This is a forbidden topic and will be locked before long, but no big loss since the answer is "no" and there really isn't anything to discuss.

[Elegiac]

The Spanish Empire did not treat native Americans in the same way as British people did.

Nah, they were treated much worse.

British colonies of that period never had casta nor encomienda.

[Rustedsaint]

Obviously baiting a side
Nah look at indie/other countries around that area.
They have a caste system that’s goes back over 3k years. Segregation has existed long before the evil”white men” came.

[muto]

You could have just Googled racial segregation and got your answer, but instead you had to make a controversial thread.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racial_segregation

[Nork]

They were all fundamentally based in a cultural perception that humans could be organized in a hierarchy based on skin color, regardless of the degree to which those institutions reflected that.

Once again, it's not a competition because giving a particular empire the "#1 At Racism" trophy does fuck all to actually address systemic racism.

That's false, again. Some empires did not develop a racial segregated society and they tried to integrate the native population within their empire. Other empires never did that and they always put white people over the rest. So yes, there are levels and scales of colonialism and imperialism.

- - - Updated - - -

Nah, they were treated much worse.

British colonies of that period never had casta nor encomienda.

You haven't got a clue about Spanish colonialism and British colonialism, have you? Casta? Encomienda? What are you talking about? Do you even know what encomienda was? It meant they treated the new land as an extension of their mainland and not as colonies. Spaniards tried to create a mixed race society. Besides, Spaniards weren't allowed to slave native Americans. You're saying that all that is worse than segregating them and treating them as slaves, not allowing mixed marriages?

You'd better educate yourself before talking about history, otherwise you'll show up as an ignorant.

[muto]

Obviously baiting a side
Nah look at indie/other countries around that area.
They have a caste system that’s goes back over 3k years. Segregation has existed long before the evil”white men” came.

That’s clearly his only objective with this thread.

[Saltysquidoon]

That segregation you're talking about was common within the Iberian Peninsula during the Middle Ages and it was both ways (Christians were also segregated in Al-Andalus). But as I said, we are talking about COLONIALISM. Limit yourself to the topic and stop talking about things that hasn't got anything to do with it.

"How to destroy an argument in one post" the stage show, the experience, based on the book of the film.
Wasn't your thesis that racial segregation was somehow a unique trait to the British empire? Now you're not only admitting it was common in spain but (rather racistly) also trying to deflect by saying it was a BOTH SIDES issue?

The Spanish Empire did not treat native Americans in the same way as British people did. Mixed marriages were allowed and they tried, probably not in the best way, to integrate them in their society, which is something British settlers NEVER DID. Read a bloody history book.

Not the same type of segregation is not the same thing as not segregation.

Seeing as how you have now conceded the existence of the Casta (a form of racial segregation) existed in the Spanish colonial system and racial segregation was also common in the iberian peninsula. I take it you seek to withdraw your argument?

EDIT I just remembered you dodged the Congo/Leopold issue.

[Ursus]

Why are people still taking this obvious bait thread seriously?

[callipygoustp]

I didn't say racism was only an English thing, did I?

It is not a human cultural feature since some empires didn't develop racial segregation systems like the British one.

Name one culture without segregation. I can't. Pretty dammed sure you can't either.

[Nork]

"How to destroy an argument in one post" the stage show, the experience, based on the book of the film.
Wasn't your thesis that racial segregation was somehow a unique trait to the British empire? Now you're not only admitting it was common in spain but (rather racistly) also trying to deflect by saying it was a BOTH SIDES issue?

Not the same type of segregation is not the same thing as not segregation.

Seeing as how you have now conceded the existence of the Casta (a form of racial segregation) existed in the Spanish colonial system and racial segregation was also common in the iberian peninsula. I take it you seek to withdraw your argument?

You haven't read my first post, have you? I was talking about the countries that stemmed from the British Empire and how racial segregation and racism is still a thing in those countries. I've never said there weren't other kind of segregations throughout history. What I was talking about is how racism and racial segregation has continued in those countries until nowadays. If you can't understand that simple thing, I can't help you, I'm afraid. I mean, it's quite simple to understand that I'm surprised you're not able to get it after 3 pages of discussion.

[Elegiac]

That's false, again. Some empires did not develop a racial segregated society and they tried to integrate the native population within their empire.

Politically marginalizing and culturally erasing a native population is not any better than outright exterminating them.

Sit down.

You haven't got a clue about Spanish colonialism and British colonialism, have you? Casta? Encomienda? What are you talking about? Do you even know what encomienda was? It meant they treated the new land as an extension of their mainland

No, it didn't. Stop lying.