TBC HC dungeons hard or nah?

[anon5123]

Strip all of that away to 2004 World of Warcraft, and you have a very simple game by modern standards.

Which is one of the reasons I love Classic so much. It doesn't have the overabundance of systems and pointless fluff that retail has. It's just a simple and fun game.

[Zka]

No it aint bro...We had priest healer good geared, as I said his damage aint resistable...The normal melee hit is physical based but shadow damage, so no resist helps. Id like to see a druid tank that 1st boss in HC MT.

So all the people who managed to survive this boss are lying or what? We wiped once or twice, then we actually stopped all damage (even autoattacks) during the reflect shield and suddenly it was healable. (warrior tank - other tanks might be harder to heal)

[Chibitoo]

Shattered Halls and Shadow Lab were brutal and required cc

Yet they seem so much easier. Maybe it's add-ons we have now? And people play their classes better. Interrupts happen, atlasloot is used, dBm is better, hell, lfg chat is amazingly full of people socially looking for group, because they know what they want and wow doesn't awe them (scare them) anymore.

[Pigy2]

Whats more here is that, spellpower was almost nonexistent at first. People just had raw stats on most stuff. +Healing was a thing and AP too but mostly it was raw stats.
As others have stated the progression of talents and skills was a major thing. Case in point: Chain Heal, the BEST healing spell in the shaman book was made a smart heal very far into vanilla. I'm reading notes of 1.12 where it was starting to jump to targets with least HP. It could bounce of anything before making it an ok but nowhere near as good a spell.
Shit like Ragnaros despawning 1 hour after being summoned. They extended this to 2 after. And Rag at his time was a tough cookie. or rather, his sons were.
QoL shit like linked AH's. Meaning, the Thunder Bluff and Orgrimmar or Stormwhind and Ironforge AH's were separate entities.
It was almost like a different game...

Glowing Brightwood Staff being the king of all healing weapons because of the chonky amount of stats on it, ez 1500 gold.

And 1500 gold in 2005 was an entirely different story than in classic.

[Djuntas]

I've tanked it dozens of times. Literally just buy "Of shadow protection" greens off the AH until you have 250+ shadow resist and the boss only hits for 2-3k.

What is this "physical based but shadow damage" ?? That makes no fucking sense. Look in the combat log, his melee swings show up as shadow damage.....you know, just like literally every other elemental in the game. The first boss of Arcatraz is the same way, he hits for shadow damage.

Physical based damage is not aborsed like elemental. Again I had shadow buff from priest, no resists even showed in the combat log. Its his NORMAL plain old melee attacks that aint absorbable.

[ellieg]

Physical based damage is not aborsed like elemental. Again I had shadow buff from priest, no resists even showed in the combat log. Its his NORMAL plain old melee attacks that aint absorbable.

Get to 300+ and ull start to notice how much it helps

[sanaubia]

I actually started playing in TBC and I tanked with my droot, managed to down tier 5 raids and that was it. I remember hc dungeons as challenging, but doable during my kara/hc dungeon gear set up. CC was far important but maybe I was a noob back then

My question is, people said in the past that wow vanilla raids were hard and it turned out they were piss easy, will this be the same with tbc hc dungeons?

I am asking because perhaps there will be new metas etc

Nah it's faceroll, just like most of the content in tbc

[Queen of Hamsters]

Nah.

They, much like Vanilla content, were difficult to the players back then. To the players of today? Nah.

[anon5123]

Physical based damage is not aborsed like elemental. Again I had shadow buff from priest, no resists even showed in the combat log. Its his NORMAL plain old melee attacks that aint absorbable.

Just stop. Everything you're saying is wrong.

Why do you think people wore Fire Resist gear to tank Ragnaros back in vanilla? Because his attacks are Fire damage, so they get reduced by Fire resistance.

Same deal here. Shadow elemental that melees for shadow damage, which. gets reduced by shadow resistance. It doesn't SHOW as "resist" or "absorb", but the damage reduction is happening.



That's what he's hitting me for in my shadow resist set.

[Djuntas]

Just stop. Everything you're saying is wrong.

Why do you think people wore Fire Resist gear to tank Ragnaros back in vanilla? Because his attacks are Fire damage, so they get reduced by Fire resistance.

Same deal here. Shadow elemental that melees for shadow damage, which. gets reduced by shadow resistance. It doesn't SHOW as "resist" or "absorb", but the damage reduction is happening.



That's what he's hitting me for in my shadow resist set.

Ok im wrong on that then. Its just odd how it did not show up in combat log then. Figured with MOTW and shadow buff from priest it would show in combat log. Thanks, still not gonna tank that crap again through :P

[Nak88]

My conclusion is that the loot is so trash (except a few trinkets and some epic gear) in comparison to the difficulty of the dungeons.

[Akka]

You could ask why people do so much more damage now of course. I think the biggest thing is that people are more skilled.

No, I don't think people are in any way "more skilled" than at the time. What they are much more is "informed". Today's players aren't "better", they just for the most part mindlessly ape whatever some addon or guide tells them. I don't see any deeper thinking or faster reaction time or more adequate adaptability than I saw at the time, but I see people all using the same template, all beelining for the BiS gear that is listed in their pre-compiled list and all sheepily following DBM directions.

We still have countless people dying on Gruul because they can't adapt to having been thrown with five people in a small space, we still have people breaking CC left and right, we still have people aggroing stupidly and so on. What has changed is that people have easy access to much more handholding duue to much more available theorycrafting and add-ons, and it leads to a massive output increase from anyone who wasn't already a good and informed player (i.e. most people).

[AeneasBK]

No, I don't think people are in any way "more skilled" than at the time.

I personally think it's mostly "better hardware", because I'm constantly told how people already knew everything there was to know about the game first time around (I highly doubt that, but okay)

I played all of TBC first time around with an average of probably 4 FPS, 200ms lag and the view distance and other gfx settings on minimum. Sure I was a healer but still. These days you can actually react to stuff because you see it happening when it happens.

[ellieg]

I personally think it's mostly "better hardware", because I'm constantly told how people already knew everything there was to know about the game first time around (I highly doubt that, but okay)

I played all of TBC first time around with an average of probably 4 FPS, 200ms lag and the view distance and other gfx settings on minimum. Sure I was a healer but still. These days you can actually react to stuff because you see it happening when it happens.

This is a huge thing. I know me and a lot of others in raid were playing on terrible computers.

And most ppl definitely did not know everything abt the game back then. Maybe some were pretty well informed but prob didn't have all the math and coefficients and interactions. Most ppl saw purple item from. Raid and equipped it over their current piece for arbitrary reasons. No sims or nothing

[Northern Goblin]

I mean I played Prot Paladin then, and I play Prot Paladin now so not much has changed.

Only difference is my DPS/TPS and that of my damage dealers, thanks to better understanding of mechanics and gearing options, so it's the same cleave zerg rush, but faster.

[Akka]

I personally think it's mostly "better hardware", because I'm constantly told how people already knew everything there was to know about the game first time around (I highly doubt that, but okay)

"better hardware" is a bullshit argument. We already had 100 ms ADSL at the time, and the game was already running at 60 fps on any decent gamer machine.

And yes people already knew everything - EJ was alive, kicking and known and had analyzed the entire game to hell and back, and in fact much better than 90% of whatever pass for theorycrafting today.
The difference is that EJ was "something for the hardcore" at the time. Theorycrafting on this scale was aimed at nerds and bleeding edge guilds, with a few curious casuals having a look. People knew about it, but didn't care. Today, everyone is expected to blindly follow the meta. THAT is the difference.

I played all of TBC first time around with an average of probably 4 FPS, 200ms lag and the view distance and other gfx settings on minimum. Sure I was a healer but still. These days you can actually react to stuff because you see it happening when it happens.

That's because you used a garbage computer then, because as said above this entire argument is bullshit. Any actual gamer could run the game EASILY, Blizzard was famous to make games that had average graphics but could run on a toaster.

[AeneasBK]

"better hardware" is a bullshit argument. We already had 100 ms ADSL at the time, and the game was already running at 60 fps on any decent gamer machine.

Most people didn't use decent gamer machines.

- - - Updated - - -

That's because you used a garbage computer then, because as said above this entire argument is bullshit. Any actual gamer could run the game EASILY, Blizzard was famous to make games that had average graphics but could run on a toaster.

And yet according to you, no one ACTUALLY ran it on a toaster because...

[Millyraynge]

That's because you used a garbage computer then, because as said above this entire argument is bullshit. Any actual gamer could run the game EASILY, Blizzard was famous to make games that had average graphics but could run on a toaster.

Hardware enthusiasts were not mainstream back then. Back then, the market for very poor pre build computers was far larger.

"What the hell, I bought a new computer and WoW still doesn't run smoothly. How crazy is this game!!!"

[Akka]

Most people didn't use decent gamer machines.

And yet according to you, no one ACTUALLY ran it on a toaster because...

Of course there were people with toasters. Just like TODAY we have people with toasters.
But your argument was that "today gamers have so much better game rigs today it plays a major role in how easier the game feel". And that's BS, because the game was NOT demanding at the time compared to the average gamer machine, just like it's not demanding today compared to the average gamer machine.

[RobertMugabe]

Some heroics are a bit hard now and others are super easy. The harder ones just need a good comp and a good comp means: have a shaman with you and maybe a mage.

Old Hillsbrad Foothills on heroic is the exception though. This dungeon is harder than anything in the game. It's been a pain in the ass every time I did it even with a shaman and mage who'd cc.