1. #4581
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    That's just bunch of empty words and you know it.

    I'm afraid when you'll try to be more specific magic can fade away. For example, more rpg elements - seriously you think people would love return of buying skills (with ranks), auto attack to level new weapon or resist gear?

    Next, open world - ???. What's open world in vanilla, few long quests that take forever, almost no open world activity on max level, sloooooow travel?
    Your own personal biases are no concern of mine.

    Quote Originally Posted by Slowpoke is a Gamer View Post
    Just like WoW's imploding sub count and the number of influencers jumping ship to the competition is "just a number." </s>



    Sure, 10.0 doesn't have to mean anything, but the game's dying. Legitimately, and not only due to the News We Cannot Discuss. They need to do something to radically shift the trajectory the game is on, and with a 2-year expansion cycle 10.0 is their last chance.
    People have been saying this since the flop that was Cataclysm. And again at MoP. and Again at WoD. and Again in BfA. And guess what? again in Shadowlands. The game's been "dying" for years.
    I agree that something must be done, but this is far from being the last chance.
    Last edited by username993720; 2021-07-23 at 06:22 PM.

  2. #4582
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    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    Your own personal biases are no concern of mine.
    Of course, instant deflection when I ask for more specific arguments. That's classic.

  3. #4583
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Of course, instant deflection when I ask for more specific arguments. That's classic.
    You don't ask for nothing.
    You come with prejudices towards that gameplay. So, what's the point? it's like trying to convince a believer to become an atheist.

  4. #4584
    Quote Originally Posted by username993720 View Post
    People have been saying this since the flop that was Cataclysm. And again at MoP. and Again at WoD. and Again in BfA. And guess what? again in Shadowlands. The game's been "dying" for years.
    I agree that something must be done, but this is far from being the last chance.

    Cata and mop were good or bad depending on who you ask, wod was pretty crappy general consensus except for pvp, notice how you didn’t mention Legion? They need to bring out whatever urgency they had after wod that gave us legion, haven’t played in a year or so but from what I’ve read shadowlands + bfa are in the dumpster with wod.

    I really regret stopping playing at legion launch then coming back 7.3.5, I thought, surely bfa can’t be if legion was this decent, whoops on that thinking ������
    Last edited by Krayz; 2021-07-24 at 03:24 AM.

  5. #4585
    Quote Originally Posted by Lady Atia View Post
    But artifact power didn't stay forever, that's the problem with it. If they had kept artifact weapons and just added both new skins aswell as cosmetic boss weapon skin drops, well that would have been a horizontal progression that stays forever instead of the borrowed power we got.
    Artifact Power was partially meant to be something you could always do to progress - allowing you to do all sorts of old content and always get "something" out of it, which doubled incentivizing people to help others with lower content. However, this resulted in cases where extreme players didn't exert any self-control or moderation, farming things like Maw of Soul into oblivion.

    Yet, if they had implemented things like hard-caps, or increasing degradation to going back and doing this content repeatedly, it would not only hurt casuals who are trying to catch up all at once quickly, but it also entirely defeats the purpose of the system of allowing people to do old content and with other people whenever for some modicum of power, and it would also be determined how much you would "need" to do as necessary. With hard or soft caps, suddenly those caps becomes mandatory rather than just something fun people can just do whenever and however much is acceptable for them.

    People burning themselves out on the system was a self-inflicted punishment, partially there because the high-end players had no way of knowing going into the next tiers how much AP they needed in order to do the next content - so they farmed into oblivion. Had Blizzard perhaps released statements saying how much would be expected in the next tier, maybe that might have helped the situation so that people could comfortably hit where they knew the next tier could be and then stop without actually putting in caps into the system itself that would have harmed everyone. Yet, this also kind of feeds into what is "mandatory" or not for these high end players (which admittedly also feels bad), but without a high-end determined metric for them to stop at - having them farm into oblivion wasn't exactly ideal. I don't see a much better way of potentially handling the situation without disrupting the system itself in a way that hurts everyone.
    Last edited by Razion; 2021-07-24 at 06:42 AM.

  6. #4586
    Epic! Pheraz's Avatar
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    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    Zorn | Vynd | Pheraz | Sylwina | Mondlicht | Eis | Blut | Emerelle - Plus 20 more...

  7. #4587
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    Artifacts were also that it directly affecting your class and fit your class gameplay. Unlike BfA or SL you didn't just start to shoot random piss-colored lasers all over the place which had nothing to do with your class, instead these where thematic additions on a spec by spec basis. SL is slightly better than BfA in that regard, but they just dropped the ball with the stupid exclusivity. Though it's also only tangetially related to our classes. With the exception of a hand full classes, most are still barely connected in anything sensible thematic way.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  8. #4588
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    give me the skin system without the power system

  9. #4589
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    It has the same quality that makes all previous mechanics better in hindsight, it was fun at the very beginning when it was a talent tree, and it was fun towards the end when it was just a small infinite power grind attached to a regular weapon.

    However in the middle it was a right mess. Annoyances upon annoyances when you felt compelled to farm content you didn't like for power gains that wildly fluctuated from pointless to literal 2-3% power gains for a single trait.


    The weapon skin farming mechanic was fun though, even if it ended up being to its detriment after 7.2 when the game had no weapon skins to offer except Taeshalach and Scythe of the Unmaker.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  10. #4590
    Remember how there were encrypted models in 9.1 that I believe we haven't seen yet?

    If Armored Zovaal isn't one of them (he only appeared in a cutscene, not ingame) then maybe it will be Arthas's new model. AFAIK he was using his old Wrath model in the upcoming Uther quest on PTR but maybe they wanted to keep his new look a secret.

    I... really don't think they would have him use his old model in such a serious moment.

    The other model (I think there were 2?) would be Sylvanas with purple eyes.

  11. #4591
    Quote Originally Posted by Nagawithlegs View Post
    Remember how there were encrypted models in 9.1 that I believe we haven't seen yet?

    If Armored Zovaal isn't one of them (he only appeared in a cutscene, not ingame) then maybe it will be Arthas's new model. AFAIK he was using his old Wrath model in the upcoming Uther quest on PTR but maybe they wanted to keep his new look a secret.

    I... really don't think they would have him use his old model in such a serious moment.

    The other model (I think there were 2?) would be Sylvanas with purple eyes.
    Im ready for the dead Sylvanas model

  12. #4592
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I think why the artifact system is still the best systems from the last three xpacs is that you had this super cool looking weapon which becomes more and more powerful. And you gathered skins for it. Such a cool thing to do. Ofc always repeating this might not be the best option, but imo it would be better than the system we have now.
    The downside with artifacts was that at the time you were stuck to certain types for transmog. For example, I have a pretty large weapon variety for transmog, but my windwalker monk was locked to fists which have the second fewest skins available (with only wands beating it out).

    That SUCKED.

    Thankfully transmog has been loosened now so that wouldn't be as bad.
    Last edited by Kiivar86; 2021-07-25 at 12:40 AM.

  13. #4593
    In a future expansion (preferably the next one), I'd like to see all previous borrowed-power systems return in a way. Instead of having them for a limited time, we should have them forever, right up until the eventual/possible end of the game.

    This includes but would not be limited to: Legion Artifact traits, the Netherlight Crucible, Azerite traits, Covenant Soulbind traits, Anima Powers, and more. Perhaps even some of the more worthwhile tier-set bonuses.

    "We can become the gods we've always been striving to be. We might as well get good at it."
    ~ Adam Jensen, one of Deus Ex Human Revolution's endings

    This quote comes to mind when I think of the concept in the first paragraph. Seems appropriate, especially after all us players have done in, on, and for Azeroth.

    Update: My concept could be thought as an overhaul of the talent system, and making it a cross between the pre-MoP talent system and the Legion Artifact weapon system. You would eventually get access to all of your passive traits by level cap.
    Last edited by Xorzor; 2021-07-25 at 12:38 PM.

  14. #4594
    Quote Originally Posted by Razion View Post
    It's almost like they tried to solve this with Artifact Power or something.
    No they didn't. Artifact power is just another vertical progression system. If we've kept our artifact weapons and they build on them in BfA and Shadowlands instead of trashing the artifact system to replace it with Azerite, then yes it would have been horizontal progression.

    By the way, at this point Blizzard has massive issues in general and I am sure it will have a very negative impact on the development of WoW as well. This is sad, but that's how rotten the company is. Curious to see how they'll continue this game.
    MAGA - Make Alliance Great Again

  15. #4595
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    No they didn't. Artifact power is just another vertical progression system. If we've kept our artifact weapons and they build on them in BfA and Shadowlands instead of trashing the artifact system to replace it with Azerite, then yes it would have been horizontal progression.

    By the way, at this point Blizzard has massive issues in general and I am sure it will have a very negative impact on the development of WoW as well. This is sad, but that's how rotten the company is. Curious to see how they'll continue this game.
    You know they are out of touch when they got rid of the Artifacts.

    Regarding your comment Nyel, I'm also curious to see what they can doin the future because as it stands right now with everything, they gonna have to make a impossible deliver.
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    No. On these forums any updates mean an expansion hint.
    Wrathin comes back? Dragon expansion clearly!
    LK part of a quest? Wotlk 2 clearly!
    Sylvanas working with a death master? Shadowlands clearly!

    At the point we're headed for Wrath of the Shdowlands Dragon Isles Lich and tinkers.

  16. #4596
    Quote Originally Posted by Nyel View Post
    No they didn't. Artifact power is just another vertical progression system. If we've kept our artifact weapons and they build on them in BfA and Shadowlands instead of trashing the artifact system to replace it with Azerite, then yes it would have been horizontal progression.

    By the way, at this point Blizzard has massive issues in general and I am sure it will have a very negative impact on the development of WoW as well. This is sad, but that's how rotten the company is. Curious to see how they'll continue this game.
    It wouldn't be horizontal progression either. Horizontal usually means unlocking more options without increasing the individual pieces. The runes for skills/spells in diablo are horizontal, just tacking another system atop another or expanding one system further would still be vertical progression.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  17. #4597
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    give me the skin system without the power system
    Lol, you have this literally now.

  18. #4598
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Lol, you have this literally now.
    A very, very poor version of that maybe.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  19. #4599
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Lol, you have this literally now.
    I guess??

    Do you mean anima or renown??
    Because anima is 100% cosmetic and I love it but that’s not really the replacement

    Renown has power attached so it’s the same

  20. #4600
    Elemental Lord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haidaes View Post
    A very, very poor version of that maybe.
    Shit ton of mounts, pets, weapons, armors, toys, special cloaks are poor replacement for just weapons. Oh sorry - very, very poor. Got ya.

    Quote Originally Posted by zantheus1993 View Post
    I guess??

    Do you mean anima or renown??
    Because anima is 100% cosmetic and I love it but that’s not really the replacement

    Renown has power attached so it’s the same
    Not "I guess". Covenants in general (cosmetics rewards for anima/renown + activities, like hunting mirrors for one Venthyr armor or doing abomination weeklies for Necro) are literally it. We have less weapon skins, but whole system is expanded.

    One thing (almost everyone) miss are challenge skins, right now only Kyrians have something similar.
    Last edited by Dracullus; 2021-07-26 at 12:56 PM.

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