[Spoilers] Elune talks!!! We finally hear/interact with Elune directly.

[GreenJesus]

This is definitely on the list of Top 10 anime betrayals.

[Elestia]

I think we are witnessing a Garrosh 2.0. Do you remember when Garrosh was written as honorable and then changed?


- She knew that Winter Queen needed Anima, but she did not know the Anima never reached Ardenweald. Why Tyrande did not phone call the Winter Queen? Or at least checked the tracking service at UPS? hahaha

b/c literally noone other than fringe parts of the Kirin'tor (like Kel'Thuzad), The Legion, Arthas and Bolvar would have even known the shadowlands existed.

Maybe Cenarius, the Wild Gods or Loa would know, but they would have only spoken of it as part of their renewal and themselves not known all aspects of their rebirth.


At least now, given the huge deck stacked in favor of the Night Elves, Elune being at the very top (of demigods, giants, ancients, dragons, chimera, legions of sentinels, the druids, greater cenarion circle, etc) how the burning of Teldrassil was essentially the will of their god(s).

[Ardenaso]

wait, Elune - who is like the god of the Warcraft universe don't know where the souls are going and yet Bwonsamdi, a mere loa, can know? and even same souls from the maw?

So remember Jim, the butcher who killed Gilnean kids?

just finished the Gilneas starting zone a few weeks ago; can't google this one

[bmjclark]

Lol. First time Elune speaks and we just learn that she's a sociopath.

[KainneAbsolute]

wait, Elune - who is like the god of the Warcraft universe don't know where the souls are going and yet Bwonsamdi, a mere loa, can know? and even same souls from the maw?



just finished the Gilneas starting zone a few weeks ago; can't google this one

Wild Gods/Loa > Elune??? there is a clear problem there.

[Yadryonych]

Listen to the dialogue properly: "in the wake of a tragedy, I send forth the cascade of souls of my chosen people."

She did not orchestrate the genocide of Night elves. And it seems like they were never meant to go to Shadowlands, she sent them to her sister willingly. She did not know that they would end up in maw.

Yep, that's because night elves normally stay as wisps, but she dispatched them all to Shadowlands instead

- - - Updated - - -

Elune sacrificed her beloved people

No she didn't

[Gorsameth]

and maybe for some reason Tyrande would die after having her vengeance so elune stoped her as she wanted her to know about the choice before actualy making it...

But Elune did not even know that the Nelf souls were sucked strait into the Maw at the time where she stopped Tyrande's vengeance against Sylvanas in their fight, she learns that afterwards (during this cinematic).

[KOUNTERPARTS]

This shit is so far off from the original night elves presented in WC3 and the War of the Anceints tirlogy that explains their origin and the full picture of the race as well as explaining thatWC3 manual entry in detail.


I'm so done with this.

So does that mean a lengthy 100 paragraph thread from you called "What Night Elves and Elune's Relationship *Really* Should Be About" is on the way?

[Varodoc]

wait, Elune - who is like the god of the Warcraft universe don't know where the souls are going and yet Bwonsamdi, a mere loa, can know? and even same souls from the maw?



just finished the Gilneas starting zone a few weeks ago; can't google this one

Wait, so there's an actual apothecary named Bob?

[Proudmong]

wait, Elune - who is like the god of the Warcraft universe don't know where the souls are going and yet Bwonsamdi, a mere loa, can know? and even same souls from the maw?



just finished the Gilneas starting zone a few weeks ago; can't google this one

A death god working in the realm of death is obviously going to know more about death and how to circumvent its systems compared to a life god.

[KOUNTERPARTS]

A death god working in the realm of death is obviously going to know more about death and how to circumvent its systems compared to a life god.

Time to dispose of Bwonsamdi and re-instate the true loa of death. We deserve better.


And get rid of the this "upstart goddess" as Xal'atath put it.

[Gorsameth]

Ironically, the idea that a 10000000000 year old elf priestess of a nature-revering race deciding to fix the cycle of rebirthing life spirits over nuking and pulping Sylvanas for "honor" is pretty congruent with WoW LORE... but this isn't about the lore is it?

It's about what the fans want (vengeance) over what makes sense in the story (renewal).

It also doesn't make sense for Elune to offer that choice when she took vengeance off the table shortly before by stopping Tyrande as she is about to kill Sylvanas.

[KainneAbsolute]

Lets review it:

- Ardenweald needed help.
- Elune took advantage of the war and Sylvanas, and sent the elf souls.
- Elune didn't know about the Maw problem.
- Elune brings the Night Warrior power (that can destroy the world) to Tyrande. Elune intervened to bring the chance of revenge.
- Why? actually Sylvanas helped Elune to send souls to Shadowlands (Elune did not know about the Maw).

I wonder why Tyrande is not mad, Elune brought her powers that was sending her into a suicide path.

[Nagawithlegs]

It also doesn't make sense for Elune to offer that choice when she took vengeance off the table shortly before by stopping Tyrande as she is about to kill Sylvanas.

"My life for hers."

She wouldn't let Tyrande die the first time. Now we know why. She realllly wanted her to make another Tear of Elune.

[Kathranis]

They are making revenge out to be a bad thing.

Well, revenge and justice are not the same thing. In my opinion, retribution isn't morally justifiable, and while a bit cliche, I don't think there's anything wrong with putting that message into the story.

I personally think the best outcome would be both for Tyrande to take the moral high ground and for Sylvanas to face justice. Sylvanas deserves whatever is coming to her, but Tyrande doesn't need to be the one to deliver it. My ideal ending of their conflict would actually be for Tyrande to simply leave Sylvanas to her fate.

Obviously my concern, and I think everyone's concern, is that Blizzard will attempt to excuse or whitewash Sylvanas's actions somehow, and things like her sundered soul are contributing to that concern. Personally, I think the reasoning for Sylvanas's actions make sense in terms of her overall character arc, and are consistent with everything she has done since Arthas died. That doesn't mean I think that what she did was right, just that I think the motivation makes sense from her point of view. That also doesn't mean she gets off the hook; what she did was unforgivable.

I absolutely don't want Sylvanas to have some sort of "redemptive" moment, either. If she's come this far, and done such horrible things, I want her to go down with the conviction that what she did was right, from her perspective. Which is to say, I think the closest she can be allowed to redemption in this story is accepting the consequences of her actions.

Secondly, there's no saving the Night Elves. They can save them from the Maw yes, but they will still be stuck in the Shadowlands. So that ship sailed 4 years ago.

I really don't know if that's the case. Wild Gods and others like them definitely have the option to be reborn into the mortal realm, so I don't know why that couldn't be extended to others, perhaps via Elune's own blessing, especially if she's part of the Pantheon of Life.

More importantly, I still really have no idea what the endgame for the Shadowlands, as a realm of Death, will even be. There are many, many souls that were wronged by the Jailer and his minions, and part of restoring balance would be doing right by them. There has also been too much talk of the injustice of Death to end with things just returning to the status quo, so I expect there to be some sweeping change to the mechanism of death before everything is over.

Perhaps that will mean that the souls stolen by the Jailer will have the option of renewal and rebirth, or reincarnation. I don't know if that means returning to life as they were before they died, or being born anew, but let me just say that I can 100% imagine a cutscene at the end of this expansion where a cascade of night elf souls stream down from the skies of Azeroth like shooting stars.

[fuzzylogic111]

Read: "Never question your superiors or try to seek restitution when you have felt you've been wronged, because those above you are there because they know better than you."

Seems kinda topical considering which company is producing this plotline.

A god isn't your boss or your elected official. It's a different category and if you can't see that, you're showing bias about this discussion.

[Gorsameth]

That would completely invalidate the Arbiter's role though. That is, if what we're being told about her is true. It might be that we're all just designed to be walking anima vessels and the covenants / whatever can just go about and mark souls for personal gain later, and those which are not marked get redistributed between all afterlives...

... which wouldn't really surprise me, tbh. We can see it with Bwonsamdi and trolls, apparently Elune and the Elves (although it seems the assignment must still be done by the Arbiter, otherwise a soul defaults to being sent to the Maw), the Jailer and Domination magic (Frostmourne's victims)... naaah it still makes no sense since Bwonsamdi has no issue bringing troll souls to the Other Side. So why did Elune fail and he doesn't? Like, if the elven souls ended up in the Maw, they must have come into the Shadowlands through the soul stream visible in Oribos. So is Bwonsamdi cheating and taking the troll souls directly one by one?

Sigh, I hate the modern WoW lore. Always more questions than answers.

Well Bwonsamdi does often talk about collecting his debts so it is entirely possible he enjoys coming to get peoples soul personally.

But more likely its simply sloppy writing.

[Timester]

It would be as easy as Elune asking to her sister "Why?"

Instead, she sent the influx of fresh anima, aka "her favorite children", without a simple fuck given.

If any believes this is good writing... hey, at least explains the nelf dark ranger.

[bledgor]

It would be as easy as Elune asking to her sister "Why?"

Instead, she sent the influx of fresh anima, aka "her favorite children", without a simple fuck given.

If any believes this is good writing... hey, at least explains the nelf dark ranger.

Except till we got there and investigated even the WQ didn't know why, so still same result

[Gorsameth]

and where would she get the information that arbiter is not working and that souls go straight to maw?
she seems to have very little information about shadowlands, what little she have she get about the drought from her sister winter queen who DIDNT KNOW why the drought exist - until we finished revendreth campaign and tell her, which happened LONG after teldrasil...

Logic really.
The Shadowlands is responsible for all the dead in the universe. Everyone goes through one of its regions. Since its unlikely that no one in the universe is dying anymore the logical conclusion is that those that are dying don't reach the shadowlands.