[EU] Brexit negotiations at a standstill

[Zaydin]

As always your point is defeated by your own article
So the EU has stopped legal action against the UK over unilateral action in violation of the WA because the UK has stopped with their threats of unilateral action and instead offered something to negotiate over.

Nor has the EU 'caved' because So the WA and the Irish Border protocol that is part of it must still be respected in any proposal the EU considers.

Why do you waste your time? Dribbles will never, ever admit he is wrong about anything. He's too deep into a Sunk Cost fallacy with his devotion to Brexit to admit it's a massive clusterfuck.

[Gorsameth]

Why do you waste your time? Dribbles will never, ever admit he is wrong about anything. He's too deep into a Lost Cause fallacy with his devotion to Brexit to admit it's a massive clusterfuck.

I don't post them for Dribbles. I post them for other people who don't know what is going on and come here to see him stating lies.

Stupid people manage to convince others of their lies when there is no one around to provide a counter voice.

[Inuyaki]

This thread is still going? Did anything important happen that I missed? Bet not... let me guess, it's all just dribbles for many many pages denying reality?

[Gorsameth]

This thread is still going? Did anything important happen that I missed? Bet not... let me guess, it's all just dribbles for many many pages denying reality?

No, occasionally its the UK threatening to blow up the treaty they themselves negotiated and signed.

[Kallisto]

Why do you waste your time? Dribbles will never, ever admit he is wrong about anything. He's too deep into a Sunk Cost fallacy with his devotion to Brexit to admit it's a massive clusterfuck.

Because not challenging Dribbles, Sir Dupesalot and their ilk is a major reason that got us Trumpism, Brexit, and the growth of the far-right. Not talking about just on here obviously. This forum is minuscule to the entire situation but not challenging lies, misinformation and the bullshit, that these people post on here, on Reddit, on other forums, on the media, in the streets etcetc allows the ideas to grow, infect, spread like a cancer eating away at society. That is why even if Dribbles is even a paid troll it is dutyful for others to denounce, correct and make sure such people who post this shit without remorse are not the only ones on the platform pushing for their ideals that can and will harm others.

[Omega10]

Because not challenging Dribbles, Sir Dupesalot and their ilk is a major reason that got us Trumpism, Brexit, and the growth of the far-right. Not talking about just on here obviously. This forum is minuscule to the entire situation but not challenging lies, misinformation and the bullshit, that these people post on here, on Reddit, on other forums, on the media, in the streets etcetc allows the ideas to grow, infect, spread like a cancer eating away at society. That is why even if Dribbles is even a paid troll it is dutyful for others to denounce, correct and make sure such people who post this shit without remorse are not the only ones on the platform pushing for their ideals that can and will harm others.

This thread is substantially more informative about what's going on in EU and UK than anything published by the US main stream media. Count me in as being thankful for Dribbles, and thankful for everyone responding so forcefully to him.

It goes without saying that he has become the single most anti-UK and pro-EU poster on this site. His posts have led to pages of material explaining the way that EU works, and why it works that way. He also makes UK look VERY bad. In almost every single conflict, his initial lies... err comments.. lead to people not only explaining why the EU is acting in reasonable ways, but also demonstrates the flat out stupidity and incompetence in the way the UK has been handling this since 2017 or so.

I always think back to the bendy banana conflict, where people in the UK were outraged that bendy bananas were banned. It turned out that English businesses were just as interested in making bananas uniform due to cost considerations. If Dribbles had not harped on it for so long, I would never have known this, and would have assumed that there was at least A LITTLE merit in the English outrage. It turns out it was 100% fake outrage.

[Kallisto]

This thread is substantially more informative about what's going on in EU and UK than anything published by the US main stream media. Count me in as being thankful for Dribbles, and thankful for everyone responding so forcefully to him.

It goes without saying that he has become the single most anti-UK and pro-EU poster on this site. His posts have led to pages of material explaining the way that EU works, and why it works that way. He also makes UK look VERY bad. In almost every single conflict, his initial lies... err comments.. lead to people not only explaining why the EU is acting in reasonable ways, but also demonstrates the flat out stupidity and incompetence in the way the UK has been handling this since 2017 or so.

I always think back to the bendy banana conflict, where people in the UK were outraged that bendy bananas were banned. It turned out that English businesses were just as interested in making bananas uniform due to cost considerations. If Dribbles had not harped on it for so long, I would never have known this, and would have assumed that there was at least A LITTLE merit in the English outrage. It turns out it was 100% fake outrage.

I think the best one though wasn't even bendy bananas. It was sausages. Not the recent debate but a while back (early 2000s I believe) one of the anti europe papers were talking about how the EU wanted to ban the British sausage for reasons.

Turns out this newspaper was quite literally taking the plot from "Yes, Minister." episode where the PM retired and the main character became PM (Leading to the show Yes, Prime Minister.). Where Europe (The EEC at this time) didn't like how the UK produced sausages because quite simply in real terms it was terrible and wanted to call it emulsified, high-fat offal tube. In the show it was settled on that British Sausage would be an acceptable compromise.

[dribbles]

As always your point is defeated by your own article
So the EU has stopped legal action against the UK over unilateral action in violation of the WA because the UK has stopped with their threats of unilateral action and instead offered something to negotiate over.

Nor has the EU 'caved' because So the WA and the Irish Border protocol that is part of it must still be respected in any proposal the EU considers.

That Article is an EU source spun for an EU audience, of course it will be dressed up to try to make a bad situation look as good as possible for them. But you can rely on the open and honest British free press to tell it exactly how it is as it is being reported this morning...

Von der Leyen bottles it!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...lks-standstill

If you hold all the cards you don't make massive concessions like that.

[Huehuecoyotl]

That Article is an EU source spun for an EU audience, of course it will be dressed up to try to make a bad situation look as good as possible for them. But you can rely on the open and honest British free press to tell it exactly how it is as it is being reported this morning...

Von der Leyen bottles it!

https://www.express.co.uk/news/polit...lks-standstill

If you hold all the cards you don't make massive concessions like that.

Your last sentence there is very true. So lets look at the sequence of events, shall we?

1. The UK threatens to unilaterally disapply the NI protocol.
2. The EU starts legal action against the UK
3. The UK promises not to unilaterally disapply the NI protocol for the immediate future
4. The EU pauses legal action against the UK

Now, the UK made the first step. Did the EU back down? No, they did not. They responded forcefully to the UK threats, as you'd expect. So what happens next? The UK, realising that the EU is calling their obvious bluff, backs down. As a result the EU put their rocket launcher back in its box.

So you are quite correct; you don't make concessions when you hold all the cards. And the UK was the one making the concession, the EU simply reacted to that concession. We blinked first.

We only "win" this if the EU decides to undermine their market. Which they've never done in the entire process, and have made it completely clear they never will. Either the UK backs down and looks stupid and weak, or they push ahead and break the GFA (probably triggering action from both the EU and US). Making them look stupid and incompetent.

What the Express says is irrelevant. This isn't going to be won by pandering to the racist core of Brexit support. This is purely trying to keep the Tory base onside with the process by lying to them. The UK aren't going to win this debate, and you can quote me on this.

[Muzjhath]

INTERRUPTIONS to food supply to Scottish shops and restaurants are largely due to Brexit - not the “pingdemic” - say independent food retailers. They report that one major issue is hauliers from the EU have cut the UK from their routes. Some suppliers in European countries are also finding other buyers for their produce, because of the costs involved in post-Brexit paperwork.

https://twitter.com/garius/status/1419573124589309956


This is gonna go over great in Scotland I can tell you.

[jonnysensible]

what the fuck is the churchill project some tories seeing how much money the lincoln project generated and trying to get a touch in the uk?

[Muzjhath]

what the fuck is the churchill project some tories seeing how much money the lincoln project generated and trying to get a touch in the uk?

No fucking clue, the main sorce (article) is The National, that I don't know much about but doesn't seem to be a Murdoch rag from a 5 second google run. The twitter thread is more from the other guy who does a very limited run on supply chain logistics and priorization. My assumption is that the churchill project is some BorisJohnson account.

[Kallisto]

what the fuck is the churchill project some tories seeing how much money the lincoln project generated and trying to get a touch in the uk?

It's pretty much yeah Lincoln Project UK was brought up basically after Bojo essentially kicked Churchill's grandson out of the party and saw how the Lincoln Project was doing things in the US. Essentially they're anti-Bojo Tories.

[Jessicka]

This thread is still going? Did anything important happen that I missed? Bet not... let me guess, it's all just dribbles for many many pages denying reality?

Well, there's a huge issue with logistics that they're trying some serious mental gymnastics to make Covid's fault, except not Covid's fault really because they'd then have to accept Covid infection rates were a problem, but instead it's the fact people have to isolate around Covid which again, is nothing to do with Covid infection rates. And definitely none of it has anything to do with Brexit even though driver agencies are screaming that they need to be able to hire EU drivers because no one in the UK is qualified or wants to do that work.

It's like one of the things Brexiters actually promised - reduced competition for jobs - is actually coming through, except not with the increased salaries, but a ton of inflation instead.

[Muzjhath]

Well, there's a huge issue with logistics that they're trying some serious mental gymnastics to make Covid's fault, except not Covid's fault really because they'd then have to accept Covid infection rates were a problem, but instead it's the fact people have to isolate around Covid which again, is nothing to do with Covid infection rates. And definitely none of it has anything to do with Brexit even though driver agencies are screaming that they need to be able to hire EU drivers because no one in the UK is qualified or wants to do that work.

It's like one of the things Brexiters actually promised - reduced competition for jobs - is actually coming through, except not with the increased salaries, but a ton of inflation instead.

Also the fact that almost all food imports to Scotland go through southern England. And stay there for days. So perishables get a shorter shelf-life while being more expensive to import (even if there isn't a tarrif, having to do all the importation paperwork makes it more expensive).

[Huehuecoyotl]

Well, there's a huge issue with logistics that they're trying some serious mental gymnastics to make Covid's fault, except not Covid's fault really because they'd then have to accept Covid infection rates were a problem, but instead it's the fact people have to isolate around Covid which again, is nothing to do with Covid infection rates. And definitely none of it has anything to do with Brexit even though driver agencies are screaming that they need to be able to hire EU drivers because no one in the UK is qualified or wants to do that work.

It's like one of the things Brexiters actually promised - reduced competition for jobs - is actually coming through, except not with the increased salaries, but a ton of inflation instead.

This is one of the key stupidities of Brexit coming to reality. If you want to move from a skilled job being done by foreign workers, to having it done by UK workers, then you do that by degrees. You sort out where those workers are coming from, ensure the training facilities are in place, then steadily move towards increasing the proportion of UK workers. You get to where you want to be in a controlled way.

But Brexiteers didn't want that; they wanted to slam the door shut. They wanted to create a hostile environment for foreign workers. So suddenly they lost all those EU drivers and in an outcome that apparently none of them saw coming, they had a huge shortfall of drivers and no magic wand to wave to create them. We're now facing huge logistical problems from supermarket goods to local rubbish collections (councils that use agency drivers for their refuse trucks are proving to be almost impossible to source).

Predictable outcomes to the Brexiteers activities. But none of them wanted to face this, or to manage the Brexit process in a way that would avoid this. Now they're reaping the rewards of their stupidity and the results are going to damage the UK economy even more for some time to come. It's what happens when you leave things to people that are too stupid to manage anything properly, and too egotistical to admit that they aren't perfect in everything they do. It's also what happens when you leave things to people that have been told all their lives that they have been raised to be in positions of power. Eton has a LOT to answer for.

[Jessicka]

Also the fact that almost all food imports to Scotland go through southern England. And stay there for days. So perishables get a shorter shelf-life while being more expensive to import (even if there isn't a tarrif, having to do all the importation paperwork makes it more expensive).

Yep, nothing to do with that either. It's because truck drivers are getting pinged by the test and trace app. Because the app is the problem. The app, and refugees in tiny boats being rescued by the RNLI.

[Huehuecoyotl]

Can't wait for someone to show up and prove you all wrong with a link that proves you all right.

None of the three Brexiteers on here are even slightly interested in discussing anything or learning anything. They pop in, shout about how Brexit is brilliant, link to an article that actually proves them wrong (as you say) then talk about how things feel better for them. Any articles detailing problems are fake news, we're just being nasty and talking the country down. Hilarious that in their eyes talking the country down is a major problem, but making decisions that fuck the economy up is just fine.

No danger of any of them admitting that their glorious Brexit is anything other than perfect. As with saw with dribbles and his hilarious list of "benefits" that were instantly shown to be rubbish. He just ignored the debunking and proclaimed himself the victor. He is the chess playing pigeon made flesh.

[dribbles]

Your last sentence there is very true. So lets look at the sequence of events, shall we?

1. The UK threatens to unilaterally disapply the NI protocol.
2. The EU starts legal action against the UK
3. The UK promises not to unilaterally disapply the NI protocol for the immediate future
4. The EU pauses legal action against the UK

Now, the UK made the first step. Did the EU back down? No, they did not. They responded forcefully to the UK threats, as you'd expect. So what happens next? The UK, realising that the EU is calling their obvious bluff, backs down. As a result the EU put their rocket launcher back in its box.

So you are quite correct; you don't make concessions when you hold all the cards. And the UK was the one making the concession, the EU simply reacted to that concession. We blinked first.

We only "win" this if the EU decides to undermine their market. Which they've never done in the entire process, and have made it completely clear they never will. Either the UK backs down and looks stupid and weak, or they push ahead and break the GFA (probably triggering action from both the EU and US). Making them look stupid and incompetent.

What the Express says is irrelevant. This isn't going to be won by pandering to the racist core of Brexit support. This is purely trying to keep the Tory base onside with the process by lying to them. The UK aren't going to win this debate, and you can quote me on this.

You are living in an alternate reality and interestingly provide no source to back up your own personal views. Meanwhile I provide several, here's another.

Faced with Lord Frost, the EU blinks first

Yesterday in Brussels the EU Commission backed down and acceded to one of Lord Frost's key demands which was contained in the UK Government's command Paper issued last Wednesday 21 July 2021.

https://facts4eu.org/news/2021_jul_eu_blinks

Great to see we have such competence in our brilliant negotiators wouldn't you say?

[unfilteredJW]

You are living in an alternate reality

This is some straight glass houses shit.