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  1. #281
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    By trying to make my personal sex life relevant to the validity of my argument you're doubling down on macho culture.

    A more progressive stance would be to instill on people that their viewpoints aren't connecting to how much approval other people give them for it, be it sexual or otherwise.
    Isn't that their stance anyway.

    "Your value as a human being isn't derived from how much sexual intercourse you have. That viewpoint is entirely sexist and 'dudebro'."
    "You know, unless you're a man and/or you disagree with our specific political views, at which point we'll use your estimated, presumed sexual desirability as the one and only cudgel to the point that we sound like 12 year olds that just learned a new word."

    It's funny, but also kinda sad.

  2. #282
    Quote Originally Posted by Kayze View Post
    There is a difference between "Men who do this are a problem, especially those that enable it." and "Not all men!". It's similar to people shouting "All Lives Matter" to BLM demonstrations or "Pancreatic cancer matters too!" at a beast cancer rally or "My house is important too!" at fire fighters trying to save a burning home or "Man, I love my grandma" when a friend mentions their grandparents passed away. No one disputes these but those feeling the need to include it comes off as shutting down voices with a defensive motive rather than trying to be fair/accurate.

    But until there's a better way for companies to be held accountable, we gotta deal with terrible online discourse to get them to actually act.
    I will never support these "terrible online discourses" as you say as long as it drags everyone down with impunity without a sliver of fact. Just "ohh boy, wonder what harassment this guy has done" just for apologizing for the state of their firm. Weak leadership is what's happened here i believe. Likely a lot of very strong personalities and weak leaders.

  3. #283
    Quote Originally Posted by zorkuus View Post
    Funny how he is calling people out for being *insert something here*, while sounding like a total raving lunatic himself.
    Look, these incels are heckin dangerous.

    I went down the stairs on time and I slipped and fell on my back. Come to see that there's an empty crisps packet on one of the steps! The incels are out for my life, you have to believe me!

  4. #284
    Quote Originally Posted by Stormwolf64 View Post
    We have seen this rodeo enough haven't we? One man quickly becomes "all men" and damned be the fool who says "It's not all men, it's just that guy"
    In a way it is all men. I have been heavily involved in underground punk scene for for ~20 years and recently the widespread abuse, rape and sexual harassment that has been going on came to light and the stories are utterly disgusting. Not talking few, or several but HUNDREDS of people who came forward with detailed stories. How were these predators able to carry on with this for so long? Because "good guys" kept their mouth shut when their friends/band members/etc behaved badly.

    It's like a pyramid, starting with the "locker room talk" and other douchebag behaviour and people turning blind eye to it.

  5. #285
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Virgins are precisely that, virgins. More power to em. Likewise for people who are asexual or have general difficulty finding partners. As long as those individuals treat others with respect and dignity come on that's all that matters.



    However, the term incel has a widely understood colloquial meaning which is synonymous not with all people who dont have sex, but with a particular subset of deeply maladjusted individuals who have not only only failed to find satisfying sexual and socially normative interactions, but who base their identity around blaming women for denying them sex which they feel entitled to. That sense of entitlement leads evolves into hatred, which leads them to form toxic online cliques whose adherents demonstrate deeply misogynistic behaviors such as bashing women, denigrating women's rights, and engaging in verbal and physical abuse against women.

    When someone starts mouthing off on a gaming forum about how all women will say that men are raping them and that's why you should never have sex, or that women are inherently dumber than men and should be "put in their place", that person is not a simple virgin, they are an incel.

    Of course you probably know all this, but I'm posting in any way for the edification of other forum readers.
    What you're doing is a motte and bailey, though.

    You'll say it refers to a very specific subset of people that self-identify with it, then do a switcheroo and call anyone who has a viewpoint you don't like it in order to demean them. I wasn't born yesterday.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Tooshie View Post
    In a way it is all men. I have been heavily involved in underground punk scene for for ~20 years and recently the widespread abuse, rape and sexual harassment that has been going on came to light and the stories are utterly disgusting. Not talking few, or several but HUNDREDS of people who came forward with detailed stories. How were these predators able to carry on with this for so long? Because "good guys" kept their mouth shut when their friends/band members/etc behaved badly.

    It's like a pyramid, starting with the "locker room talk" and other douchebag behaviour and people turning blind eye to it.
    Okay, but pray tell how many of the women involved (not as victims, but simply as bystandards, knowledgeable about it) were silent and in that sense complicit?

  6. #286
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Isn't that their stance anyway.

    "Your value as a human being isn't derived from how much sexual intercourse you have. That viewpoint is entirely sexist and 'dudebro'."
    "You know, unless you're a man and/or you disagree with our specific political views, at which point we'll use your estimated, presumed sexual desirability as the one and only cudgel to the point that we sound like 12 year olds that just learned a new word."

    It's funny, but also kinda sad.
    Yes, that's their stance. They're the dudebros. The idea that your worth in society is contingent on your sexual value is their frame. They're pointing at how masculine our society is for this. By being mocked for their sexual failures they're getting their point handed to them on a silver platter.

    And I understand why this is so tempting to women. They're in a seller's market and they're aware that they get to use this as rhetorical leverage. But by taking this bait they're reaffirming to everyone that a woman's opinion is mainly reinforced by men wanting to have sex with them.

    I'm saying that this is a blunder. If you want to be valued as a human being, then you would avoid letting others give you agency based on your sexual value.

  7. #287
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Yes, that's their stance. They're the dudebros. The idea that your worth in society is contingent on your sexual value is their frame. They're pointing at how masculine our society is for this. By being mocked for their sexual failures they're getting their point handed to them on a silver platter.

    And I understand why this is so tempting to women. They're in a seller's market and they're aware that they get to use this as rhetorical leverage. But by taking this bait they're reaffirming to everyone that a woman's opinion is reinforced due to men wanting to have sex with them.

    I'm saying that this is a blunder. If you want to be valued as a human being, then you would avoid letting others give you agency based on your sexual value.
    Not to go on a tangent, but the sneaking suspicion that a lot of these 'virtuous men' are former "dudebros" who simply have switched their tactic to pretending to champion social causes to hold on to their shitty attitudes without repercussions and sometimes even lauded for their behavior has been there for a while, and the more time passes and the more I see cases of these great "male allies" come to light, the more I'm certain that there's truth to it.

  8. #288
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Look, these incels are heckin dangerous.

    I went down the stairs on time and I slipped and fell on my back. Come to see that there's an empty crisps packet on one of the steps! The incels are out for my life, you have to believe me!
    Haha, you stupid people, incels are not dangerous at all, you're just afraid of shadows!

    Meanwhile in the real world: https://www.thelantern.com/2021/07/o...ential-target/

    There is a reason for this categorization, and a part of this category IS very dangerous.

  9. #289
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooshie View Post
    In a way it is all men. I have been heavily involved in underground punk scene for for ~20 years and recently the widespread abuse, rape and sexual harassment that has been going on came to light and the stories are utterly disgusting. Not talking few, or several but HUNDREDS of people who came forward with detailed stories. How were these predators able to carry on with this for so long? Because "good guys" kept their mouth shut when their friends/band members/etc behaved badly.

    It's like a pyramid, starting with the "locker room talk" and other douchebag behaviour and people turning blind eye to it.
    There we go. I wonder how many of you there are who harbor such thoughts. We abolish anyone who says a single negative thing against women as that's "sexist", but then the misandry thrives unabated. It's not all men. I'm pretty sure punk rock concerts attract a lot of a certain type of people.

  10. #290
    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    I'm sure they'll miss your 15 bucks, angry kiddo.
    You better believe they will. Because he won't alone in this, there will be thousands more, and not all of them will post here to announce that. It is already happening btw, and now with all this woke-shit it will only accelerate.

  11. #291
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Haha, you stupid people, incels are not dangerous at all, you're just afraid of shadows!

    Meanwhile in the real world: https://www.thelantern.com/2021/07/o...ential-target/

    There is a reason for this categorization, and a part of this category IS very dangerous.
    In a similar light, did you see how many cat owners killed people? Such a menace. We need to put a stop to it.

  12. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tortuga234 View Post
    This entire topic is devoid of sources proff from the likes of you. Everyone shreeks that proof is not needed because "believe all whamen".
    Yet whenever you disagree on a fact you demand proof. It's hillarious really.
    If he states something as a fact that can be proven/disproven, then yeah, i'd like a source. It's "funny" you compare it to the blizzard situation where hundreds of current and ex employees come out to tell their stories.

    But yeah... gotcha?

    Sorry, this men are the real supressed class is some gade a incel bullshit that doesn't hold water in any way - so if you want to do such a ridiculous claim, better come prepared with some evidence.

  13. #293
    Epic! Ermelloth's Avatar
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    In-game Changes. We have heard the input from employee and player communities that some of our in-game content is inappropriate. We are removing that content.
    Oh no, not platekinis...

  14. #294
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    Not to go on a tangent, but the sneaking suspicion that a lot of these 'virtuous men' are former "dudebros" who simply have switched their tactic to pretending to champion social causes to hold on to their shitty attitudes without repercussions and sometimes even lauded for their behavior has been there for a while, and the more time passes and the more I see cases of these great "male allies" come to light, the more I'm certain that there's truth to it.
    I have been very vocal about "wokefishers" for ages, and the problem is 100% real. The dudes who wear "this is what a feminist looks like"-shirt on tinder profiles and other bullshit are huge red flag. More actions, less virtue signalling on social media.

  15. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    In a similar light, did you see how many cat owners killed people? Such a menace. We need to put a stop to it.
    Well, i'm, sure you can provide me with an article of the planned mass murder someone commited/planned because of their love of cats. I'm sure you got that and this isn't some hillarious bad comparison.

  16. #296
    Quote Originally Posted by Tooshie View Post
    I have been very vocal about "wokefishers" for ages, and the problem is 100% real. The dudes who wear "this is what a feminist looks like"-shirt on tinder profiles and other bullshit are huge red flag. More actions, less virtue signalling on social media.
    "No, don't run away, I'm an ally! I'm a male feminist!"
    "Come on, Petra, run harder!"



    But yeah, it's just being a jock shithead with another step, and it's good that people are seeing through it.

  17. #297
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    Well, i'm, sure you can provide me with an article of the planned mass murder someone commited/planned because of their love of cats. I'm sure you got that and this isn't some hillarious bad comparison.
    And I'm sure you can find me more than 5 cases where a literal self-proclaimed incel murdered people and you're not just overblowing something because you're told it's a big issue.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobosan View Post
    Being a chauvanistic abuser who blames women for not giving them sex that they feel entitled to isn't a "viewpoint" no matter how hard you try to legitimize it, and you're goddamned right I'll demean anyone who denigrates or feels ownership over women. But hey, you go on defending monstrous behavior...you're doing a very effective job of demonstrating precisely the kind of person you are, and all I can say is I'm grateful I'll never have to work with anyone remotely like you, as my workplace has zero tolerance for misogynistic assholes.

    As to your second point, women are not complicit as bystanders if they were (as the lawsuit claims, and as dozens of testimonies corroborate) pressured or threatened into silence by male staff and HR personnel whose sole interest was in preserving Blizzard's reputation.
    Assumptions assumptions assumptions assumptions.

    Not even sure you're still aware of who you're talking to and what it's about, it all seems.. not very lucid. Maybe you've been arguing with strawmen for too long and now everything looks like a nail to you. Or maybe it's just all starting to blur together for you. Either way, take a break and catch your breath because you're tilting at windmills.

  18. #298
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ermelloth View Post
    Oh no, not platekinis...
    Well, we can attack strawmans, or take a look at what they're actually removing:

    https://www.wowhead.com/news/referen...arcraft-323588

    You really think they can just with the snap of a finger remove half the armor models? This is about this one person who has dozens of references in the game, which are now purged.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    And I'm sure you can find me more than 5 cases where a literal self-proclaimed incel murdered people and you're not just overblowing something because you're told it's a big issue.

    - - - Updated - - -


    Assumptions assumptions assumptions assumptions.

    Not even sure you're still aware of who you're talking to and what it's about, it all seems.. not very lucid. Maybe you've been arguing with strawmen for too long and now everything looks like a nail to you.
    Moving goalposts much? I linked you an article why this mindset is dangerous with a current case.

    You invent some bogus claim, and when called out on it you move the goalposts to: well you have one example, but i demand 5!

    So, lets get you a whole list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incel#...s_and_violence

    I'm waiting anxious how the goalposts will be moved now.

    Will it be:
    1. Well they're not self-described
    2. Old stuff
    3. Wikipedia is no source

    curious what you will go for

  19. #299
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    If he states something as a fact that can be proven/disproven, then yeah, i'd like a source. It's "funny" you compare it to the blizzard situation where hundreds of current and ex employees come out to tell their stories.

    But yeah... gotcha?

    Sorry, this men are the real supressed class is some gade a incel bullshit that doesn't hold water in any way - so if you want to do such a ridiculous claim, better come prepared with some evidence.
    The grand stories of i didnt get promoted #harassment. Very convincing.
    Blizz fucked up when they hired dumbos for 3.50 thinking they were smart hiring cheap from the bottom of the barrel and now its biting them back as they screech for more gibs.
    Edit: since many seem busy getting offended and like to take things wrong: its both men and women doing this right now on twitter.
    Last edited by mbit; 2021-07-28 at 11:07 AM.

  20. #300
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    Quote Originally Posted by mbit View Post
    The grand stories of i didnt get promoted #harassment. Very convincing.
    Blizz fucked up when they hired dumbos for 3.50 thinking they were smart hiring cheap from the bottom of the barrel and now its biting them back as they screech for more gibs.
    You're aware that this isn't some people screeching on twitter, but the state of california opening a case after blizzard had been reprimaneded 2 years prior and didn't change?

    Yeah sure, just some twitter wokeristas.


    I don't like them myself, but that doesn't mean discrimination doesn't exist.

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