Dose Our Generation Have a Nostalgia Gatekeeping Problem?

[DingDongKing]

It's not gatekeeping so much as fatigue from the entertainment industry being creatively bankrupt. When you have an active fanbase for something who wins by remaking it into something different? Make a new franchise instead of shitting on the ones we grew up with.

I 100% agree. It's why I'm also so tired of the perpetual stream of high fantasy MMOs and RPGs. I mean, do something new.

[Syegfryed]

Not really opposite. Teela was always a competent but headstrong soldier with a tendency for rash actions which seems in keeping with the new series, and MOTU Revelations is finally exploring two of the original series unresolved issues - how will Teela respond when she finds out all the people closest to her were keeping a major secret and when will she come into her powers as the daughter of the sorceress? Even the 2001 series was cancelled before it got to the bottom of these questions.

I don't rly thing Teele that i knew, the headstrong soldier would bitch that much about for a secret that she even had to make a KAren haircut.

She was not an angry teen, i get the thing about daughter of the sorceress was a great plot to explore, but they did drop the ball with her characterization

My biggest issue with the series is the fact they've Benjamin Buttoned Prince Adam. Every other characters seems to have got a bit older while he's gone from adulthood to a teenager, more like the 2001 series than the original.

They have to, so he don't 'steal" the spotlight, cause everyone wanted to see a series about him

Like i said previously, the major problem here was the marketing, they sold a he-man series, but they didn't delivered, if they said since the beginning it was something new, exploring other characters people would be more open

[Dhrizzle]

I don't rly thing Teele that i knew, the headstrong soldier would bitch that much about for a secret that she even had to make a KAren haircut.

She was not an angry teen, i get the thing about daughter of the sorceress was a great plot to explore, but they did drop the ball with her characterization

Did you miss the part where two of her best friends had just died as she discovered they and the rest of the people closest to her had been keeping a massive secret from her? The series does a pretty good job of explaining her statebof mind when she meets with Adam in the champion's paradise.

They have to, so he don't 'steal" the spotlight, cause everyone wanted to see a series about him

What?

Like i said previously, the major problem here was the marketing, they sold a he-man series, but they didn't delivered, if they said since the beginning it was something new, exploring other characters people would be more open

I'm guessing you didn't watch the original series much. He-Man has a similar problem to Superman, he's too powerful and once he shows up there's pretty much no tension any more because he can just punch or throw rocks at the problem until it stops being a problem. Most of the episodes that have any sort of stakes usually revolve around keeping He-Man out of the action, he's really far away or Adam lost his sword or has to eat a big dinner or something. As a series with a progressive story it makes sense they won't just introduce He-Man early and have him punch Skeletor and throwing rocks for the next 7 episodes.

Besides exploring Eternia post-He-man and Skeletor was brilliant. Seeing how the villains scattered and their attitudes to each other was great, especially Tri-Klops and Whiplash blaming magic for their previous issues and making the Cult Mechanicus.

[Endus]

Besides exploring Eternia post-He-man and Skeletor was brilliant. Seeing how the villains scattered and their attitudes to each other was great, especially Tri-Klops and Whiplash blaming magic for their previous issues and making the Cult Mechanicus.

Also, frankly, how once the Sword of Power was out of the picture, there was no reason for many of the villains to even fight, and it turned out they weren't that different from the heroes.

I'd lay money Evil Lyn's gonna betray Skeletor in the final 5 eps. Especially if this turns into a "why would I need you when I've already won" kind of deal for Skeletor.

Also, the only real difference with Adam was that he's physically less imposing. And the only reason he looked exactly like He-Man in the original cartoon was because that way they didn't need new molds just for Adam, they could just use the same body molds as every other male character. Y'know, the same reason Skeletor's a beefcake with a skull face, rather than a full skeleton. He isn't de-aged; the original Adam was exactly like this. If anything, whinier and more useless. And at least now it's believable when nobody recognizes Adam as He-Man, where before, He-Man is just Adam with his shirt off.

[Lodreh]

I don't know if it is gatekeeping as much as headcanon. Once those shows were off the air we still had the toys. We continued the stories and played out new scenarios in our imaginations that were just as real as anything we had seen. Even if you do not recall those whimsical tales... you envisioned something different than what is being shown. That disconnect feels like a retcon and no one likes a retcon. It changes the way you see the past material... and if those were happy memories then you become extremely defensive of those memories.

For some it may be the last times they felt truly safe... shining a light on it now and exposing it as lie causes the same amount of grief as a personal loss. Those raw emotions... coming from a place buried deep inside all of us is difficult to channel or put into words. So naturally people lash out... they aren't sure why they don't like it but they know something is wrong. People tend to pick up and fixate on little things that don't sit right.

Using MotU as an example. Every 22 minute episode featured He-Man overcoming a challenge. If each episode of the new show does not follow that exact format there is going to be outrage. If every episode doesn't feature He-Man front and center there is going to be outrage. If an episode ends without a little moral lesson at the end... you got it outrage. As an adult you know these are petty nitpicky things... it may even be subconscious... as a child who grew up with these stories you notice when these things are different.

[segara82]

IMO most of those reboots of old franchises are done because the companies are afraid of risk by creating a new IP and instead try to milk an old one.
The problematic parts are:
Not caring about the original fans and even insulting them, a sure-fire way to loose customers.
Not caring about the original theme of those shows. Subversion or outright destruction of the old themes serves no purpose other than pleasing the new managers ego.
Twisting or changing old, established characters for no other reason than to 'be more inclusive' is reducing them to token characters and is an insult to both old fans and the targeted new audience.
Add to that the queer baiting that so many new shows include. They like to hint on there being something more but never dare to show anything.

The new MotU: Revelation does all these things.
Kevin Smith lied when Clownfish TV brought up the first rumours and gaslighted them only to later be proud of doing all the things listed in the leak. Insulting fans and lying about his connection to the old show.
As it is with these deconstructive 'new and daring' shows the old order of things has to die, crumble and make way for new things. The harsher and more gruesome the better, or so they think. Characters are warped, almost ending as parodies of the older versions, just to shit on the old stuff.
Seriously, who do they think is happy about them race-swapping characters?
Or the longing, lingering looks Teela and Andra exchange, but never dare to say it outright.

The only 2 good things this show has is the animation and most of the voice acting. But everything else ... even after cleaning out the audience score it is at 33% at RT for a reason.

[unfilteredJW]

The only 2 good things this show has is the animation and most of the voice acting. But everything else ... even after cleaning out the audience score it is at 33% at RT for a reason.

I fucking loved it but I didn't feel the need to go to RT and click.

It's just funny to me moments into the second episode I knew the usual turds were going to come out in force. Prophetic.

[Endus]

The only 2 good things this show has is the animation and most of the voice acting. But everything else ... even after cleaning out the audience score it is at 33% at RT for a reason.

That reason is "brigading". Not legitimate audience response. There's a reason hundreds of negative reviews will pop up for something like this within minutes, and sometimes even before, it's released.

[Jastall]

I 100% agree. It's why I'm also so tired of the perpetual stream of high fantasy MMOs and RPGs. I mean, do something new.

I think a big issue is that different crowds want new things while others want the same thing repackaged, and sometimes they overlap without knowing it.

Take The Mandalorian. Look, I liked it a lot. But is it really something new? Guy who looks like Boba Fett going on adventures with baby Yoda, with season 2 especially laying on the cameos of previously beloved characters? Using the now extremely well trodden trope of the stoic badass learning to open up thanks to an adorable child sidekick? The Mandalorian is a lot of things, something new isn't it if you ask me, but it's still the most widely liked Star Wars iteration probably since the end of the original trilogy, and believe you me that show wouldn't have gotten made or obtained any recognition had it not been for the Star Wars brand power.

What new IP in the last, fuck, let's go with twenty years has had the sheer popularity of the MCU? Fast and Furious? Transformers movies? Even individually very successful movies like Avatar were cliché to an extreme. The formulaic stuff is rewarded with the most money. That's the message executives get. Games fare a bit better there, some giant IPs have risen from very little... but often by aping up existing genres and conventions. LoL and DOTA 2 got big because of a WC3 mod. Path of Exile is Diablo 2.5. Fortnite was the first BR that didn't suck balls. So on and so forth. People like familiarity and brand power's a big thing. Even the indie industry is hit by that, where it feels like "creativity" is mostly doing your own version of Minecraft, Dark Souls and/or Hollow Knight.

[DingDongKing]

I think a big issue is that different crowds want new things while others want the same thing repackaged, and sometimes they overlap without knowing it.

Take The Mandalorian. Look, I liked it a lot. But is it really something new? Guy who looks like Boba Fett going on adventures with baby Yoda, with season 2 especially laying on the cameos of previously beloved characters? Using the now extremely well trodden trope of the stoic badass learning to open up thanks to an adorable child sidekick? The Mandalorian is a lot of things, something new isn't it if you ask me, but it's still the most widely liked Star Wars iteration probably since the end of the original trilogy, and believe you me that show wouldn't have gotten made or obtained any recognition had it not been for the Star Wars brand power.

What new IP in the last, fuck, let's go with twenty years has had the sheer popularity of the MCU? Fast and Furious? Transformers movies? Even individually very successful movies like Avatar were cliché to an extreme. The formulaic stuff is rewarded with the most money. That's the message executives get. Games fare a bit better there, some giant IPs have risen from very little... but often by aping up existing genres and conventions. LoL and DOTA 2 got big because of a WC3 mod. Path of Exile is Diablo 2.5. Fortnite was the first BR that didn't suck balls. So on and so forth. People like familiarity and brand power's a big thing. Even the indie industry is hit by that, where it feels like "creativity" is mostly doing your own version of Minecraft, Dark Souls and/or Hollow Knight.

Everything Is A Remix.

[Rennadrel]

That reason is "brigading". Not legitimate audience response. There's a reason hundreds of negative reviews will pop up for something like this within minutes, and sometimes even before, it's released.

This lie is so obvious. You all used it when people shit on Star Wars, Ghostbusters 2016 and Birds of Prey. Can you not just accept that people dislike things in a lot larger numbers than those who like it instead of crying that people are intentionally being negative to artifically reduce audience scores? Just take the L and move on. Because you seem to think that your little echo chamber of people who like the garbage that Hollywood keeps crapping out speaks for the majority all the time, when in reality the people who care the most are the majority. And if you ever try to use critic scores to rationalize your bias, that's just sheer naivety on your part because we know that 90% of reviewers have some sort of bias.

[Skorpionss]

l
I liked it personally. I wasnt even aware there was even controversy over it until after I binged watched it... the blessing of not being on social media I guess. So, like most controversies I have no ides what people are complaining about but seeing who the star of the show is I can probably guess lol. which is why the show was called Masters of the Universe and not He-Man Masters of the Universe.

this guy makes videos about being angry about the most mundane things... Its so much effort and energy.

The guy literally reviews movies and tv shows for a living, and is usually pretty level headed when making them, not just making it for the clickbait, that's what his channel is about, he doesn't only review those he likes because he'd not have enough content to release...

[Orby]

The guy literally reviews movies and tv shows for a living, and is usually pretty level headed when making them, not just making it for the clickbait, that's what his channel is about, he doesn't only review those he likes because he'd not have enough content to release...

erm, no, are you sure we're talking about the same guy? He comes across as another Quartering wannabe (before Quartering became the outrage drama channel). Another alt-right manchild creator disguised as a 'critic' complaining about stuff that caters to other man-child to validate their lower IQ opinions. There are loads of people like that who keep appearing in my recommended for some reason, like that YellowFlash guy... Seriously these people need to get a different hobby. All this hate and anger cannot be good for the blood pressure.

[Skorpionss]

After going through his most recent videos I call bullshit. His entire schtick is outrage for clicks.

Sure, everything you disagree with is outrage for clicks.

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erm, no, are you sure we're talking about the same guy? He comes across as another Quartering wannabe (before Quartering became the outrage drama channel). Another alt-right manchild creator disguised as a 'critic' complaining about stuff that caters to other man-child to validate their lower IQ opinions. There are loads of people like that who keep appearing in my recommended for some reason, like that YellowFlash guy... Seriously these people need to get a different hobby. All this hate and anger cannot be good for the blood pressure.

Bro, all his vids are reviews of movies or talking about the film/entertainment industry... what are you even talking about? You don't have to agree with the guy but at least listen to what he has to say, because he definitely knows more about the industry than you do, because of the simple fact that it's been his "job" for a number of years.

[scelero]

You're creating a narrative in your head. Though I will say I was on both sides of being ok and hating what George Lucas did to Star Wars. Another is there are Goonies out there that want THEIR version they saw and not what it is now, with parts cut out and put into deleted scenes.|


But I will let you in on a little secret. Ads are what TVs are made for, and don't for a second think it's there for the shows, movies, etc. Movies and shows are FILLER to get people to stay to watch the next ad. And if you follow with your logic in people's thinking, I would venture off so much to claim that these same like minded people would say commercials were even better back when they was a kid.

I'm getting ready to turn 39 and I hope people of the same age have learned how much we were pumped with propaganda and how to consume consume and consume. How to consume this and not that. Why to like this and not that. It's as if tv PROGRAMMING programmed you to like a certain thing, which was the thing you watched. Companies don't want you liking the latest and greatest thing, they want you sold on what you already agreed to..... It was like having a membership card before places did that to consumers to trick them to shop and be loyal to one store.

Also, is your issue with social media and this is just a guise to talk about that?

[Mr. Smith]

Have we failed to move on from our childhood? Why do we connect so much with the media we grew up on and why can we not let it go? For whatever reasons we are upset about our nostalgia being 'ruined' or 'destroyed' why do we really care? I am really not that bothered personally, but it seems us 30+ year olds are really concerned about children's TV shows more than any other generation before us?

When we were kids in the 90s and 80s was right around the time, I think, that a lot of children's shows started trying to actually "mean" something. Compare the Flintstones or the Jetsons to, say, Captain Planet. The former two are basically just generic sitcoms with gimmicks bolted on to them: They could be entertaining in their own right, but they were inoffensive, bland even. Whereas if you were a kid that loved animals and going outside, you would naturally be more attached to Captain Planet because it spoke to something that you were personally interested in.

I think that's where the greater level of investment comes in: The shows in the 80s-90s had more unique identities than those that came before, and it caused deeper connections for the people that understood and appreciated those identities: It's like the difference between someone you were friends with at school just because they were nice, versus the friends who you would make time to meet after school and on weekends because you both liked playing video games.

So people become more heated about these things because, when they see them rebooted by new writers who change or outright destroy those identities they love, it's like watching your friend who likes video games settle down with an S/O that makes them stop playing video games. I don't think this is something that will be unique to Gen X and Millennials though: After all, new TV shows are still being made that try to speak to people. I mean, just imagine thirty years or so from now, if a show that came out today with a cast of minority characters was rebooted to be mostly comprised of white people, the complaining from the newer generation of people who identified with the original version of the show would be biblical.

[Endus]

This lie is so obvious. You all used it when people shit on Star Wars, Ghostbusters 2016 and Birds of Prey. Can you not just accept that people dislike things in a lot larger numbers than those who like it instead of crying that people are intentionally being negative to artifically reduce audience scores? Just take the L and move on. Because you seem to think that your little echo chamber of people who like the garbage that Hollywood keeps crapping out speaks for the majority all the time, when in reality the people who care the most are the majority. And if you ever try to use critic scores to rationalize your bias, that's just sheer naivety on your part because we know that 90% of reviewers have some sort of bias.

And yet, somehow, those products are financially successful anyway.

Take the brigading of Captain Marvel, because Brie Larson made a couple comments in interviews that upset the manchildren. It still shows up really low in audience scores on review sites. Despite the quantifiable fact that it's one of the most-successful non-Avengers MCU films; https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisb...g-black-widow/

It's not even that hard to tell if there's brigading going on; reviews will normally tend to form a bell curve, naturally, if the average is middling, or will be a curve up to a peak at 5 or 1 if it's legitimately great or terrible. When there's brigading, there'll be a huge spike of 1-star reviews, and then a normal bell curve above that in the 3-4-5 region somewhere.

Imagine trying to deny that brigading occurs in movie audience reviews, in 2021.

[segara82]

And yet, somehow, those products are financially successful anyway.

You can't be talking about Disney Star Wars, GB2016, and Birds of Prey then. Disney has not recouped the initial 4 billion dollar investment, GB2016 bombed and so did BoP.
The only reason Captain Marvel made as much money as it did was because they moved the release to just before the long awaited finish because they knew fans were hoping for more infos on Endgame. The bad video sales (DVD+BR) confirm that hypothesis.

So, maybe 1 in 4 could be counted as a success.

Care to admit you are wrong?

[Endus]

You can't be talking about Disney Star Wars, GB2016, and Birds of Prey then. Disney has not recouped the initial 4 billion dollar investment, GB2016 bombed and so did BoP.

If you're only looking at the films, maybe, but Disney makes money off everything Star Wars.

And those films were financially successful. The only one you could even really call a box office disappointment was Solo. The rest more than made back their production costs, and topped a billion worldwide revenue each.

https://observer.com/2020/08/star-wa...ey-box-office/

Birds of Prey was better than it had any reason to be, though it didn't have much of an audience and marketing fucked it up pretty royally. And GB 2016 was just a generically meh film; it's only considered a travesty because of comparisons to the original. I've never defended it as a "good movie", just as "not complete garbage trash but more like a 6/10".

The only reason Captain Marvel made as much money as it did was because they moved the release to just before the long awaited finish because they knew fans were hoping for more infos on Endgame. The bad video sales (DVD+BR) confirm that hypothesis.

No, this is desperate flailing in an attempt to manufacture excuses.

Care to admit you are wrong?

Given that I'm not, no.

[Grax]

There is a severe problem with people not wanting to put the toys down. I'm slightly older than the OP, and this inability to leave the trappings of childhood behind (and then act like children either defending or criticising) is disturbing. It's [redacted] He-Man. The last time I picked up a He-Man (or any other action figure) was about 1992. I haven't watched the show, and won't because I'm not 11 anymore, but the vitriol coming from both directions is childish. Especially coming from adults.

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And yet, somehow, those products are financially successful anyway.

Take the brigading of Captain Marvel, because Brie Larson made a couple comments in interviews that upset the manchildren. It still shows up really low in audience scores on review sites. Despite the quantifiable fact that it's one of the most-successful non-Avengers MCU films; https://www.forbes.com/sites/travisb...g-black-widow/

It's not even that hard to tell if there's brigading going on; reviews will normally tend to form a bell curve, naturally, if the average is middling, or will be a curve up to a peak at 5 or 1 if it's legitimately great or terrible. When there's brigading, there'll be a huge spike of 1-star reviews, and then a normal bell curve above that in the 3-4-5 region somewhere.

Imagine trying to deny that brigading occurs in movie audience reviews, in 2021.

Does positive review "brigading" happen?