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  1. #681
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    Because that's the crux, he blames paying customers, that they are responsible as well for the sexual harassment inside Blizzard and that's frankly disgusting. Customers are not responsible when internal affairs destroy your production capabilities.
    Customers are part of the gaming community.
    Developers are part of the gaming community.
    WoW is 17 years old, so people working at Blizzard right now, actually CAME from this particular community.

    Are you really sure, that - after all the gamer gate drama back then - the gaming community is totally woke and innocent by now? It's not. He didn't address this issue correctly, but I get the message behind it. Just read the comments here.

    Obviously the gamers at home are not directly responsible for Afrasiabis misbehavior, but let's be honest here - This type of behavior is common in the "gaming culture." I am talking about disregard for the feelings of others.
    Last edited by noctim2; 2021-07-28 at 11:58 AM.

  2. #682
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post
    I'm not sure what you are referring to, but if it's to the "No work is being done" drama, then i will point out that it's the tone and insuation that creates the drama here.

    Rather than asking for understanding and patience for the current situation, where it's understandable that a lot of people may not be able to do work, it's absolutely atrocious to blame the customer, which he absolutely did when he said "You are part of the problem".

    Because that's the crux, he blames paying customers, that they are responsible as well for the sexual harassment inside Blizzard and that's frankly disgusting.
    Customers are not responsible when internal affairs destroy your production capabilities.
    There's also the fact that this is his literal first (and maybe) only response about this whole situation as a Blizzard senior. Not only is there a good chance he knew about this for a while, but rather than anything else, his first priority is to wag a finger and point blame at paying players for being upset that the company they pay is a dysfunctional wreck filled with sex pests.

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    Quote Originally Posted by noctim2 View Post
    Customers are part of the gaming community.
    Developers are part of the gaming community.
    WoW is 17 years old, so people working at Blizzard right now, actually CAME from this particular community.

    Are you really sure, that - after all the gamer gate drama back then - the gaming community is totally woke and innocent by now? It's not. He didn't address this issue correctly, but I get the message behind it. Just read the comments here.

    Obviously the gamers at home are not directly responsible for Afrasiabis misbehavior, but let's be honest here - This type of behavior is common in the "gaming culture." I am talking about disregard for the feelings of others.
    Nah son, no matter how much the big evil "G*OoberGl*mp" (it's been 7 years btw) hurt your feelings, that doesn't mean you can conflate it with actual sex pests denigrating and harassing their employees, one of them to suicide. This culture in Blizzard has purportedly existed before your boogeyman hashtag was even a concept, too.

  3. #683
    Quote Originally Posted by noctim2 View Post
    Are you really sure, that - after all the gamer gate drama back then - the gaming community is totally woke and innocent by now? It's not. He didn't address this issue correctly, but I get the message behind it. Just read the comments here.
    The point is that you_cannot_implicate an entire community from around the world to the issue of sexual harassment in your company.
    That's not how it works, mate.

    I am not responsible for what some bad actors are doing that i've never personally interacted with, do not blame these upon anyone simply because they had the audacity to purchase products from the company you are working for and are expecting to be served accordingly.

    There is a huge difference between "there is an issue with sexism in the gaming community and "If you, as paying customer, expect a on time product, you are part of the problem".

    This isn't about Blizzard employees not working, this is about insulting your community.
    Quote Originally Posted by noctim2 View Post
    I am talking about disregard for the feelings of others.
    And i believe that you should also be respectful towards others when you expect sympathy and not issue a general blame towards your customers on something such as sexual harassment WITHIN YOUR COMPANY.

    I repeat it, the smart and sane thing would've been to ask for sympathy and patience, not flip the board not and go "Oh, you expect something? fucking sexist".
    Quote Originally Posted by Yarathir View Post
    There's also the fact that this is his literal first (and maybe) only response about this whole situation as a Blizzard senior. Not only is there a good chance he knew about this for a while, but rather than anything else, his first priority is to wag a finger and point blame at paying players for being upset that the company they pay is a dysfunctional wreck filled with sex pests.
    What rubs me the wrong way is also the fact that he's the one who first broke the news that no work is being done.

    Imagine going to restaraunt, ordering food, then news breaks there are some internal issues about sexual harassment within the restaurant, Waiter / Waitress drops the news that nothing is being cooked anymore and the response to the question about the state of your order is "You worry about food?! You're part of the reason why sexual harassment at our establishment exists".

    There are most certainly bigger problems revealed Blizzard right now, but this just shows how much certain Blizzard employees despise the community of their games.
    Last edited by Kralljin; 2021-07-28 at 12:41 PM.

  4. #684
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Originally Posted by Blizzard Entertainment
    If you accept and comply with the terms of this Agreement, Blizzard will grant, and you will receive, a limited, revocable, non-sub licensable, and non-exclusive license to use the Platform”
    Read the End Users License Agreement. You own nothing. They promise nothing and what you have is access to the platform followed by a number of rules, limitations and statements that essentially say they can do what they want with your account any time they please. This is not really unusual for online games.

    https://www.blizzard.com/en-us/legal...ense-agreement
    With my account, sure. It's their account in fact, I own nothing. The service I am using though is composed of different advertisements and promises made by Blizzard which have lead to me purchasing that license in the first place. The TOS do not explicitly state that we have no rights or that we should have no expactations to receive updates of content, etc. Therefore, what they advertise is what you can expect in addition to the access and is thus part of the expected service that comes with the fee.

    This is all gulash anyway and means nothing. Nobody will go ahead and force the issue on a legal level. This is about our perceieved relationship with this company and the developers they employ. I do not have the impression that his guy thinks of us as his customers.

    Imagine I tweet to my clients that "I'm being bullied at work and if they expect me to deliver the products they paid money for, they're part of the problem". I'd be booted instantly for buisness damaging actions.

  5. #685
    Herald of the Titans Vorkreist's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nachtigal View Post
    Thanks for confirming a what a total lack of brains you have.
    Harvey Weinstein is once again asking for your financial support. Help him quick.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nubpwn View Post
    This is just plain false and outright disrespectful to the women still employed at Blizzard. YOU are part of the problem as to why these women feel so terrified about coming out with these allegations. What woman would dare come out with allegations when people like you come out of the woodwork to claim women like her already left the company? A damn brave one I can tell you that, you should be ashamed of yourself.
    Another sexual harassment apologist . No , YOU should be ashamed of yourself when you pay blizzard every month to continue doing this.

  6. #686
    Quote Originally Posted by noctim2 View Post
    Are you really sure, that - after all the gamer gate drama back then - the gaming community is totally woke and innocent by now? It's not. He didn't address this issue correctly, but I get the message behind it. Just read the comments here.
    gamergate was about a dev fucking journos for fake positive reviews. Gold diggers are naturally a detriment to the storyline everyone is a innocent victim but thats harldy "gamers" fault.

  7. #687
    Quote Originally Posted by Kralljin View Post

    Imagine going to restaraunt, ordering food, then news breaks there are some internal issues about sexual harassment within the restaurant, Waiter / Waitress drops the news that nothing is being cooked anymore and the response to the question about the state of your order is "You worry about food?! You're part of the reason why sexual harassment exista

    There are most certainly bigger problems revealed Blizzard right now, but this just shows how much certain Blizzard employees despise the community of their games.
    Ok, am I misreading the original statement from that developer? The quote was going smth like "no work isbeing done in this moment" amd if your only concern right now is the new patch, you are a part of the problem."

    So, can someone please explain how do those words indicate whatsoever that they have stopped working on the content completely and how exactly are they blaming customers for this situation???

  8. #688
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamais View Post
    Ok, am I misreading the original statement from that developer? The quote was going smth like "no work isbeing done in this moment" amd if your only concern right now is the new patch, you are a part of the problem."
    I can't find the original thread, since the dev changed his twitter so only followers can read it.

    But he essentially stated: Since the news broke, we haven't worked on anything in WoW.
    Then, he later tweeted:
    If your reaction to everything going on right now to complain that the next patch is going to longer to release, then you need to take a step back and realize that you are part of the problem.
    You value video game content more than human decency and respect.
    https://www.mmo-champion.com/content...ses-to-Lawsuit
    Quote Originally Posted by Jamais View Post
    So, can someone please explain how do those words indicate whatsoever that they have stopped working on the content completely and how exactly are they blaming customers for this situation???
    Saying that paying customers for wanting services they paid for are responsible for sexual harassment at Blizzard is just bullshit.

  9. #689
    Reading some of these comments actually made me wanna throw up. Way too many "woke" twitter people in this thread going "l-look at me!! I am an ally!!!!" It's cringe. These people act like they're standing on some pedestal looking down on the rest of the consumers by preaching what Alex Klontzas tweeted.

    We are first and foremost consumers. If Activision Blizzard can't deliver a product because of their internal problems then they need to either find a way to compensate their paying customers while their internal issues are being revolved or cancel their product altogether. They are definitely not doing the latter. Paying customers have the right to expect content regardless of what's happening at Blizzard HQ. It's like ordering take out for later today, paying for said takeout, going to the restaurant to pick it up and being told it wont be ready till next month because the chef is in the midst of marital problems. You're not evil for expecting your takeout you paid for even if the chef is having marital problems.

    Grow the hell up.
    Last edited by s0ul; 2021-07-28 at 03:27 PM.

  10. #690
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    Maybe work on your reading skills?

    >you are part of the problem
    >the problems are internal problems at the company
    >you are part of the problems at the company

    it's literally what he said. there is no twisting. as a paying customer, I have a right to the product i have purchased. if people want to demand that they dont halt the production of that product to solve their issues, while the company even continues to charge them the same rate nontheless... then they're not part of the mysogyistic issues blizzard has. stating anything of that sorts detaches you from reality where you are a service provider and we are paying customers.

    if they said we'll have x months of free game time, or store vouchers, while they halt the production to address internal issues, nobody would have said anything. id even argue that his whole tweet would have been taken in an entirely different light. but he's just a dev after all. he cannot make such decisions. maybe he should also not be making inane tweets and focus on his job: development.

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    Does the truth make you that uncomfortable? do what you can to change it within your own sphere. if enough people do the same, things will change.
    but everyone who has spent some time in these spheres knows exactly what kind of cesspool youre invoking when you make statements such as these via social media.
    No,. it's not literally what he said. What he was referring to was that if you are complaining to Blizzard developers about where contenbt is when they are trying to process what has happened, youa re part of the problem. You absolutely are twisting words.And you are proving his point. he and the rest are ytrying top process and work on these issues and you are screaming at him to do his job. You are the one who needs to work on his reading skills. You continue to interpret something that isn't there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    Reading some of these comments actually made me wanna throw up. Way too many "woke" twitter people in this thread going "l-look at me!! I am an ally!!!!" It's cringe. These people act like they're standing on some pedestal looking down on the rest of the consumers by preaching what Alex Klontzas tweeted.

    We are first and foremost consumers. If Activision Blizzard can't deliver a product because of their internal problems then they need to either find a way to compensate their paying customers while their internal issues are being revolved or cancel their product altogether. They are definitely not doing the latter. Paying customers have the right to expect content regardless of what's happening at Blizzard HQ. It's like ordering take out for later today, paying for said takeout, going to the restaurant to pick it up and being told it wont be ready till next month because the chef is in the midst of marital problems. You're not evil for expecting your takeout you paid for even if the chef is having marital problems.

    Grow the hell up.
    Tbhanks for porving his point. Ignore what is happening, give mer my content, right? The entitlement here is toxic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    Imagine I tweet to my clients that "I'm being bullied at work and if they expect me to deliver the products they paid money for, they're part of the problem". I'd be booted instantly for buisness damaging actions.
    NOt what he said at all! When will you people stop twisting his words? It is beyond dishonest and proves his point.

  11. #691
    Quote Originally Posted by Vorkreist View Post
    Another sexual harassment apologist . No , YOU should be ashamed of yourself when you pay blizzard every month to continue doing this.
    Nothing I said comes off as a harassment apologist.

    I am saying there are still women employed at Blizzard, women that were victims, women that are a part of the very walk-out against the harassers. Are you saying these women employed there still are also "harassment apologists"? Btw, I don't still pay them every month, my sub has been cancelled for a while. Where are you even getting that?

  12. #692
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    No,. it's not literally what he said. What he was referring to was that if you are complaining to Blizzard developers about where contenbt is when they are trying to process what has happened, youa re part of the problem. You absolutely are twisting words.And you are proving his point. he and the rest are ytrying top process and work on these issues and you are screaming at him to do his job. You are the one who needs to work on his reading skills. You continue to interpret something that isn't there.

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    Tbhanks for porving his point. Ignore what is happening, give mer my content, right? The entitlement here is toxic.

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    NOt what he said at all! When will you people stop twisting his words? It is beyond dishonest and proves his point.
    It isn't toxic entitlement. It's a legitimate question about what we can expect for the same amount of fee, which we're paying the company that employs them, now that they're taking time off the projects to process internal issues.

    I wish them all the success, but if it means that product that I'm purchasing won't receive any further updates and support till they've solved their issues, I'll cancel my sub. I'm very pragmatic about this.

    His statement basically said two things:

    Until we solve our problems, dev is frozen.
    If you got a problem with that, you're part of the problem.

    The problem isn't that they freeze, the problem is that all who complain because they have certain expectations about the return of their spendings are framed as part of the problem. That's inane.

    And I certainly don't enjoy being called names by developers who cry wolf now after being years part of what apparently is an openly toxic environment. Unless you've spent all your time as a hermit developer there's isn't a chance in hell you didn't know how your peers behave.

    You know what would have been better?

    Hi guys, were freezing development until we solve our issues. We suggest you also freeze your sub until blizzard finally implements actual changes. Support us!

    Boy he would have gathered so many followers. But he chose the toxic approach instead, shaming everyone around him. Go figure
    Last edited by Tsarez; 2021-07-28 at 04:01 PM.

  13. #693
    Quote Originally Posted by Tsarez View Post
    It isn't toxic entitlement. It's a legitimate question about what we can expect for the same amount of fee, which we're paying the company that employs them, now that they're taking time off the projects to process internal issues.

    I wish them all the success, but if it means that product that I'm purchasing won't receive any further updates and support till they've solved their issues, I'll cancel my sub. I'm very pragmatic about this.

    His statement basically said two things:

    Until we solve our problems, dev is frozen.
    If you got a problem with that, you're part of the problem.

    The problem isn't that they freeze, the problem is that all who complain because they have certain expectations about the return of their spendings are framed as part of the problem. That's inane.

    And I certainly don't enjoy being called names by developers who cry wolf now after being years part of what apparently is an openly toxic environment. Unless you've spent all your time as a hermit developer there's isn't a chance in hell you didn't know how your peers behave.

    You know what would have been better?

    Hi guys, were freezing development until we solve our issues. We suggest you also freeze your sub until blizzard finally implements actual changes. Support us!

    Boy he would have gathered so many followers. But he chose the toxic approach instead, shaming everyone around him. Go figure
    This is all a load of BS and you continue to misrepresent his words. What he said was that anyone who whines to the developers about content and thinks that is more important than those that have been hurt, you are part of the problem. What you fail to understand is that those that have been hurt are wroking on content. You are basically telling those people "I don't care that you were hurt,get back to making muh content". that is down right insulting and insensitive. But you only care about yourself. Go figure.

  14. #694
    I unsubbed due to burnout months ago, looks like it was meant to be as the wheels are finally falling off, ironically due to gross internal behaviors rather than the actual game's performance. It's hard to see them coming back from this. The company's reputation will suffer a big blow, and devalue the IP's to do with it. Mickey Mouse is licking his chops right now. I really hope Disney buys Blizzard.

  15. #695
    Quote Originally Posted by rrayy View Post
    No,. it's not literally what he said. What he was referring to was that if you are complaining to Blizzard developers about where contenbt is when they are trying to process what has happened, youa re part of the problem. You absolutely are twisting words.And you are proving his point. he and the rest are ytrying top process and work on these issues and you are screaming at him to do his job. You are the one who needs to work on his reading skills. You continue to interpret something that isn't there.

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    Tbhanks for porving his point. Ignore what is happening, give mer my content, right? The entitlement here is toxic.

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    NOt what he said at all! When will you people stop twisting his words? It is beyond dishonest and proves his point.
    You are part of the problem. Get off your high horse.

    We are consumers first. Blizzard should deal with their problems but it should NOT impact their product. If that concept is too difficult for you to understand then you're beyond help.

    And I bet Alex Klontzas and his team are extremely happy with the timing of this lawsuit. He basically went on Twitter to blame everything on this lawsuit. He also implied that the next patch will be just as bad and it won't be coming anytime soon because "muh human decency and respect". This was a convenient scapegoat for his failures.

  16. #696
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    You are part of the problem. Get off your high horse.

    We are consumers first. Blizzard should deal with their problems but it should NOT impact their product. If that concept is too difficult for you to understand then you're beyond help.

    And I bet Alex Klontzas and his team are extremely happy with the timing of this lawsuit. He basically went on Twitter to blame everything on this lawsuit. He also implied that the next patch will be just as bad and it won't be coming anytime soon because "muh human decency and respect". This was a convenient scapegoat for his failures.
    Calling out liars and disingenuous posts makes me "paret of the problem"?

    Youa re completely tone deaf. People who were working on the game were among the victims. Tell me again how that should not impact the game? The fact that you cannot see that you are telling victims of abuse to get over themsvlkes and produce "muh content" because you have massive selfishness and entitlement proves Alex's point. On top of it, you completely misrepresent his words to the point of blatantly lying.

    The one who needs to get off their high horse is you. The fact that you think the victims of abuse should be bowing to you over their own health is disgusting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kyphael View Post
    I unsubbed due to burnout months ago, looks like it was meant to be as the wheels are finally falling off, ironically due to gross internal behaviors rather than the actual game's performance. It's hard to see them coming back from this. The company's reputation will suffer a big blow, and devalue the IP's to do with it. Mickey Mouse is licking his chops right now. I really hope Disney buys Blizzard.
    Not going to happen. This company will come back. It will happen very slowly, but they will come back.

  17. #697
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    We are consumers first. Blizzard should deal with their problems but it should NOT impact their product. If that concept is too difficult for you to understand then you're beyond help.
    Yeah, that's pure bullshit. Problems happen, and sometimes in order to get things back on track a company's output will temporarily suffer. Obviously it isn't ideal, but at times it has to be done. Saying "the product comes before everything" is not a good way of running a business as it will invariably lead to short cuts that undermine other aspects within the company.

    Complying with the investigation and ensuring a safe working environment for their employees SHOULD come before working on updates that weren't even close to release. Blizzard hasn't suspended access to the game and they haven't said there will never be more updates or expansions. Everyone is still receiving exactly what their subscription requires.

  18. #698
    Quote Originally Posted by s0ul View Post
    You are part of the problem. Get off your high horse.

    We are consumers first. Blizzard should deal with their problems but it should NOT impact their product. If that concept is too difficult for you to understand then you're beyond help.

    And I bet Alex Klontzas and his team are extremely happy with the timing of this lawsuit. He basically went on Twitter to blame everything on this lawsuit. He also implied that the next patch will be just as bad and it won't be coming anytime soon because "muh human decency and respect". This was a convenient scapegoat for his failures.
    If your response to the current problems at Blizzard is to say "Yeah yeah whatever, when am I getting more content?" YOU are part of the problem.

  19. #699
    Quote Originally Posted by Osmeric View Post
    And this would likely be done by diverting budget from Blizzard to other divisions of ATVI.

    If things get dysfunctional enough at Blizzard, it just gets amputated.
    Blizzard basically deserve to crash and burn. But it wont. HS and OW generates too much bling for hobbit.

  20. #700
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kalisandra View Post
    Nice round of whataboutism, there.
    I called people out for being hypocrites, do enlighten me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Josuke View Post
    You can do all that and still be an ass hole who leaves the world a worse place.
    Yes, at least I did my part. What did you do?

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