[Spoilers] Elune talks!!! We finally hear/interact with Elune directly.

[Aucald]

Seeing the replies in this thread, shows the big issue with WoW. Blizzard is writing a story for people who dont or refuse to understand the story. First of all, Elune is not omnipotent. She doesnt know everything. Her and the Winter Queen are 2 sides of a coin, does the Winter Queen know everything? No. Also, Elune, like a lot of god-like beings, doesnt directly interfere with the actions of mortals.

She is bound to the cycle of life and death like every other being in existence. To prevent the death of the Night Elves would be a violation of nature itself. She took the opportunity of all those Night Elves dying to send them right to Ardenweald so they could be at peace and fuel the place with anima. She did not know that the Maw was consuming everything. Not even the denizens of the Shadowlands knew that. When the Eternal ones meet at the start of the expansion, Kyrestia asked how the Maw suddenly grew in power. These are powerful immortal beings, not omniscient gods.

To be fair, we've only recently learned more of Elune's nature i.e. the Winter Queen and her place within the essential dynamo of WoW's metacosm, so to speak. For a long time, Elune was more mysterious and had a cachet of prestige few other powers in WoW had (e.g. being accorded as the sole true deity-level power of the mythology). Now we know Elune's relative place in the broader pantheon of higher powers, that she is kin to the Eternal Ones who, while powerful, are definitely limited in their scope and not beyond mortal interference (such as our having dealt with the corrupt Sire Denathrius). While I agree about non-interference and her being bound to unknowable rules as befits her place in the cosmic cycle, I can understand that some people might be disheartened to learn she isn't essentially more than she's been shown to be, that her power and scope are necessarily limited, and she isn't quite the divine authority that some people might've thought.

I don't blame Elune for what happened in Teldrassil, and knowing what we know now I think she tried to make the best out of a horrid situation and failed due to complexities she couldn't be aware of (aka Zovaal's machinations). But I can see how that would be a let-down to people who had put their hopes in her, both in-universe and as a character in the story being told. People expected a lot from Elune as a character, and I suppose the reveal has shown that Elune isn't quite the authority or the power that people had built her up to be.

[Myradin]

Presumably she can prevent souls leaving the material plane. Which makes sense with the available information.

Counter point. You're in a foreign country. You hear someone cry out, you don't know the language or where it's coming from. There's a huge gap between hearing and total comprehension of a situation.

Your a god who's domain might stretch across a billion worlds. You know your sister is crying for help and you don't know why, plus it's beyond your ability to check (since you've never shown that ability). But you know that all things in the Shadowlands runs off mortal souls . You see a chance to try and potnenally save your sister, one of your people's are facing a crisis. You have limited power to directly interfere since after all the Night Elves have been beaten numerous times and you haven't swooped in to save them. Seeing the innvertable coming you monopolies the crisis and allow the souls you'd normally turn into wisps into the Shadowlands to try and help your sister.

To me that make perfect sense

Why do the Winter Queen and Elune, sisters, not share a language? Can she not hear there's a problem with shipping?

Why does Elune have no knowledge on how the shadowlands works, when she's now been described as being tied into the cycle of life and death. Its not complicated. Souls go in, they go places. But apparently souls aren't going places, cause her sister is crying out. Let's send more souls in.

She's still effectively treating her 'chosen people' like batteries. Even if they did go to the right place.

[Smallfruitbat]

... no she wasnt, she literaly never helped them in any war, she helped few individuals - like she saved Tyrande in war of ancients, and didnt help AT ALL to thousands of nelfs being slaughtered...

Bad phrasing on my part. Elune allowed her power to be used to save her people in the past. I realise that she didn't step in during the wars etc.

As I previously said, I actually prefer the idea that she chooses not to dabble in the affairs of mortals. In my opinion, by revealing more about Elune and limits to her powers (whether real or inferred) they have spoiled most compelling part about Elune and that was the mystery.

[Aucald]

Why do the Winter Queen and Elune, sisters, not share a language? Can she not hear there's a problem with shipping?

Why does Elune have no knowledge on how the shadowlands works, when she's now been described as being tied into the cycle of life and death. Its not complicated. Souls go in, they go places. But apparently souls aren't going places, cause her sister is crying out. Let's send more souls in.

She's still effectively treating her 'chosen people' like batteries. Even if they did go to the right place.

I don't think the Winter Queen and Elune are "sisters" in the biological sense of the term - they're entities who share a profound bond by representing two opposing aspects of a divine system or cycle, in this case, the natural aspects of Death and Life respectively. They don't seem to share a common frame of reference, as they dwell in two separate and opposed realms of the metacosm - the rare times they communicate they do so through an emotional or instinctual bond, and one that doesn't seem to convey precise information (as in they're not calling one another up on the phone on weekends). The Winter Queen's calls to Elune may have also occurred before the Winter Queen knew that Zovaal was involved or that the machinery of Death had been broken and souls auto-mapped to the Maw.

Elune may also have no way over what happens in the mortal realm and is unable to prevent horrific tragedies like Teldrassil from occurring if the events are precipitated by mortal deeds. The best she could do was to ensure that the souls of the dead served a higher purpose, and potentially she was giving them a way to be reborn via Ardenweald. She just didn't know that their ultimate destination was going to be to go into Zovaal's hands.

[Aresk]

I don't think the Winter Queen and Elune are "sisters" in the biological sense of the term - they're entities who share a profound bond by representing two opposing aspects of a divine system or cycle, in this case, the natural aspects of Death and Life respectively.

We also know the Winter Queen has a "cousin" though from the Korthia quest, so there's been some additional familial references surrounding her. We don't know much about this individual other than the fact that they communicate via mail and makes use of anima.

Edit: Actually, after rereading that, it looks like it's a scam letter, so disregard this.

[Smallfruitbat]

Elune may also have no way over what happens in the mortal realm and is unable to prevent horrific tragedies like Teldrassil from occurring if the events are precipitated by mortal deeds. The best she could do was to ensure that the souls of the dead served a higher purpose, and potentially she was giving them a way to be reborn via Ardenweald. She just didn't know that their ultimate destination was going to be to go into Zovaal's hands.

Why then would the Winter Queen be asking Elune for aid? -I realise we have no firm answer to that but what was she expected to do.

It reads to me that she overstepped her bounds bypassing the Arbiter and attempting to send the NE souls to Ardenweald.

[Newname1234567890]

Why do the Winter Queen and Elune, sisters, not share a language? Can she not hear there's a problem with shipping?

Why does Elune have no knowledge on how the shadowlands works, when she's now been described as being tied into the cycle of life and death. Its not complicated. Souls go in, they go places. But apparently souls aren't going places, cause her sister is crying out. Let's send more souls in.

She's still effectively treating her 'chosen people' like batteries. Even if they did go to the right place.

Language barrier was a metaphor ffs. There's a difference between hearing and total comprehension of an issue.

There's knowing how it works and always knowing what's going on with it. Not the same thing.

She's a god....people in positions of power abuse their "lessers" all the times. Irl and in wow.

- - - Updated - - -

Even that is not true, she never said that she allowed them to die. Why or if Elune could have stopped the burning is unexplained.

It's not unexplained....she literally says her motives in the cutscene....?

[Smallfruitbat]

It's not unexplained....she literally says her motives in the cutscene....?

I don't think she does explain her motives for not intervening. She says 'in the wake of a great tragedy' something happened and she is reacting to the outcome. And then gets teary-eyed because the souls didn't end up where she thought they would. If I missed something, please let me know.

[Newname1234567890]

I don't think she does explain her motives for not intervening. She says 'in the wake of a great tragedy' something happened and she is reacting to the outcome. And then gets teary-eyed because the souls didn't end up where she thought they would. If I missed something, please let me know.

Maybe I'm reading to much into it. But with the hearing the cries for help and then wanting the souls to go to Ardenweald I assume those statements were linked.

Anyway I'm dubious to how much Elune really can directly intervene. After all the Night Elves have routinely got curb stomped without Elune directly stepping in.

[geco]

Maybe I'm reading to much into it. But with the hearing the cries for help and then wanting the souls to go to Ardenweald I assume those statements were linked.

Anyway I'm dubious to how much Elune really cant directly intervene. After all the Night Elves have routinely got curb stomped without Elune directly stepping in.

Reading the history forums.
Isn't there a scene in BFA in the novel where Sylvanas says that it looks like Elune convinced Varock not to kill Malfurion?

And with this it is already more than clear that he could prevent the burning. (Too bad I preferred the version that couldn't for X reason. As Tyrande wasn't there.)

"And that was almost certainly true, wasn’t it? Elune had intervened. Perhaps she had even
stayed Saurfang’s killing blow. And she wouldn’t be the only force beyond the Alliance to oppose
Sylvanas’s true objective. "

[Smallfruitbat]

And with this it is already more than clear that he could prevent the burning. (Too bad I preferred the version that couldn't for X reason. As Tyrande wasn't there.)

I'm not entirely sure Blizzard have made up their minds on whether or not she could have prevented the burning. Instead of dealing with what they created, they seem to be obsessed with creating more and more layers of entities and factions to explain circumstances.

[Newname1234567890]

Reading the history forums.
Isn't there a scene in BFA in the novel where Sylvanas says that it looks like Elune convinced Varock not to kill Malfurion?

And with this it is already more than clear that he could prevent the burning. (Too bad I preferred the version that couldn't for X reason. As Tyrande wasn't there.)

I haven't read all the BFA books so I haven't seen that scene. But I'll believe you.

There's also different levels of intervention. From directly manifests and soloing the entire Horde to doing nothing.

I'm not sure we have any knowledge to how much Elune can do, certainly the upper limit. But we seem to know why she potentially would allow the tree to burn (assuming she could stop it) and that's to funnel souls to the afterlife.

[geco]

I'm not entirely sure Blizzard have made up their minds on whether or not she could have prevented the burning. Instead of dealing with what they created, they seem to be obsessed with creating more and more layers of entities and factions to explain circumstances.

"If it's Elune's fault Sylvanas is innocent". For me the original idea was that they were also attacking Elune or something similar. And they hoped that with BFA the Kaldorei Fans and the fans in general would be happy.

This is like a "you have to kill the Horde" ... "you do not have to kill Sylvanas" ... "not now it's Elune's fault".

[Smallfruitbat]

My initial reaction to the cinematic was that they were trying to let Sylvanas off the hook because there was a purpose for the Night Elves to die.

[TriHard]

garbage as usual.

You can't do better.

[Raetary]

Reading the history forums.
Isn't there a scene in BFA in the novel where Sylvanas says that it looks like Elune convinced Varock not to kill Malfurion?

I haven't read all the BFA books so I haven't seen that scene. But I'll believe you.

It was Tyrande.

In Sylvanas’s care? It is more merciful to end him now.

Still his axe did not move.

And then, very suddenly, he could not move at all.

Bright light enveloped Saurfang, paralyzing him, making it impossible to twitch a muscle. A mighty blow slammed into his head, throwing him five paces away. He hit the ground hard. The wind left his lungs in a single rush as he tumbled to a painful stop. When he looked up, he saw the light of Elune, in all its fury and beauty.

Tyrande Whisperwind.

[sighy]

After stewing on it for a bit I'd say that there is a direct implication of Elune having an active influence in terms of making a conscious action or inaction, which directly influenced the souls going into Shadowlands.

-Night Elves normally having an alt afterlife makes no sense, because even Wild Gods go to Ardenweald and it'd make the whole retcon plot about Sylvanas planning to burn it all along so she can send loads of souls to the maw sound even mroe stupid than it already is.
-It could be argued that Elune saving Malfurion is what made Sylvanas burn it according to the reasoning from"A Good War", but that can't be reconciled with the "planned it all along huehuehue" retcon, unless that is discarded as an invalid interview derp(There is a lot about BfA that i wish could be discarded so)
-Taliesin did notice that the music, whens Elune talks about the cascade of souls is the same it was on the Crossroads, when the Horde departed for the War of thorns, which could have wild implications.
-We know that it was one of the key reasons Sira and the other one chose to join the Forsaken, in that they believed Elune directly betrayed them and sought revenge for that betrayal i guess.
-Last and wierdest option is that she put stamps on all the souls like "Oi this is for Ardenweald", which also doesn't make sense, because then she wouldn't have condemned shit and Arbiter is not supposed to work like that anyway.

[Kralljin]

A deposed cosmic force, stripped of his position/purpose and replaced by the Arbiter.

For someone who has been deposed, he awfully talks a lot about death.

[Zstr]

this is just sick mistake, when `the burning of tree` happened before`free of a jailer`,
why the fuck then `all the souls should have gotten to ardenweald to help Elune's sister` plot has appeared?! IT's not docking on whole storytelling srsly

[sighy]

this is just sick mistake, when `the burning of tree` happened before`free of a jailer`,
why the fuck then `all the souls should have gotten to ardenweald to help Elune's sister` plot has appeared?! IT's not docking on whole storytelling srsly

The spirit of Gorribal is the only thing that really makes sense to me, as something that's red and could have feasibly broken the Arbiter, within the given timeframe. Only real alternative ic an see would be Xavius, but that would need a lot of explaining.