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  1. #621
    SO the response from Blizzard to all of this? To keep the employees from unionizing and covering their own asses. What cowards:

    "To help accomplish that, the company has retained the services of prestigious law firm WilmerHale, which is the same law firm helping Amazon keep its workers from unionizing. Considering ongoing efforts to unionize game workers, the partnership is a little concerning."

    https://kotaku.com/activision-blizza...ers-1847386654

    Never playing again unless some people are CANNED and the employees are put FIRST. This tells me EVERYTHING I need to know about Blizz now.

  2. #622
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwijello View Post
    SO the response from Blizzard to all of this? To keep the employees from unionizing and covering their own asses. What cowards:

    "To help accomplish that, the company has retained the services of prestigious law firm WilmerHale, which is the same law firm helping Amazon keep its workers from unionizing. Considering ongoing efforts to unionize game workers, the partnership is a little concerning."

    https://kotaku.com/activision-blizza...ers-1847386654

    Never playing again unless some people are CANNED and the employees are put FIRST. This tells me EVERYTHING I need to know about Blizz now.
    yep, all the more reason to not play a single Activison-blizzard game for the time being.

  3. #623
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwijello View Post
    SO the response from Blizzard to all of this? To keep the employees from unionizing and covering their own asses. What cowards:

    "To help accomplish that, the company has retained the services of prestigious law firm WilmerHale, which is the same law firm helping Amazon keep its workers from unionizing. Considering ongoing efforts to unionize game workers, the partnership is a little concerning."

    https://kotaku.com/activision-blizza...ers-1847386654

    Never playing again unless some people are CANNED and the employees are put FIRST. This tells me EVERYTHING I need to know about Blizz now.
    Yup - this was the thing that broke it for me - I wanted to hang onto the sub because there are plenty of employees who work at Blizz who want to do the right thing and want to uphold the values that Blizzard claims, but instead of going with something like a public recommendation from a major national labor organization, they decided to go with the lawyers they already had on hand. Real bad optics there, and it shows that Kotick doesn't give a flying fuck about resolving this issue.

  4. #624
    Quote Originally Posted by drukai View Post
    Yup - this was the thing that broke it for me - I wanted to hang onto the sub because there are plenty of employees who work at Blizz who want to do the right thing and want to uphold the values that Blizzard claims, but instead of going with something like a public recommendation from a major national labor organization, they decided to go with the lawyers they already had on hand. Real bad optics there, and it shows that Kotick doesn't give a flying fuck about resolving this issue.
    My sub ran out today. This is the first time I have walked away and have no desire to go back. I hope Blizzard folds at this point. NOT because I don't want people to have their game, as that is ALL I wanted all along, but because this company is a cesspool and needs to be drained.

    I hope they sell the IP to someone who RESPECTS it and can bring it back to some RESPECT with the fans and players. Blizz will NEVER be able to do that.

  5. #625
    "According to Kotaku" is a line that should automatically disqualify anything that follows, even if it was "gravity exists" I'd start doubting it just from that.

  6. #626
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwijello View Post
    I hope they sell the IP to someone who RESPECTS it and can bring it back to some RESPECT with the fans and players. Blizz will NEVER be able to do that.
    Be careful what you wish for. I don't think this is going to happen but a prime candidate for a buyer would be Tencent. I don't know that that would be better. I rather imagine not.

    On the other side of this I too would like to see Blizzard's management cleaned out once facts are known. I'm not in favor of putting everyone at Blizzard HQ out of work though.

    Blizzard employees have requested that they be the ones that select the law firm or entity that will audit management practices. Many here have gone completely off the rails and declared that socialism or communism (or something). I think it's a good idea and an easy concession for Santa Monica to make.
    Last edited by MoanaLisa; 2021-07-30 at 12:32 AM.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  7. #627
    Quote Originally Posted by Mojo03 View Post
    I'm on the accusers side.

    But, it's undeniable there is a lot of weird going on, on both sides.

    Bloomberg and DEFH blatantly mislead and spread misinformation to people. People largely still think that girl took her life from intense harassment at work and that Afrasabis office was nicknamed the Cosby suite because he was a sucha. sexual predator. Even if you're for the accusers, the blatant dishonesty these people did should bother you.

    The sexual harassment stuff is getting the attention when the actual legal case is almost entirely about wage inequity. The harassment, according to Hoeg law, seems to be in there to paint the picture it's an unfriendly and unfair environment for women, to strengthen their case for wage inequity, not to actually prosecute or punish people for it, like people seem to think.

    The women making the accusations are set to have huge pay days. I would not at all be surprised if many are the same ones on Twitter making waves, because they're heavily incentivized to want people believe it all and put more pressure on Blizzard. They're not totally doing it because they're "brave" like people are acting like.

    If you actually care about the truth, I don't see how you couldn't think it's a bit weird, but again, I'm still for the accusers.
    That's the issue though, most people hearing of this don't care about the truth, they just wanna wave their pitchforks and enjoy the pleasure of being an angry mob.

  8. #628
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    Be careful what you wish for. I don't think this is going to happen but a prime candidate for a buyer would be Tencent. I don't know that that would be better. I rather imagine not.

    On the other side of this I too would like to see Blizzard's management cleaned out once facts are known. I'm not in favor of putting everyone at Blizzard HQ out of work though.
    If it doesn't happen, I, and I am sure A LOT of others, will never log into Wow or any other Activision/Blizzard game again. I cannot and will not support this company when this is the response to employee abuse. Abuse them MORE and block any protections for them. Cowards.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimin View Post
    "According to Kotaku" is a line that should automatically disqualify anything that follows, even if it was "gravity exists" I'd start doubting it just from that.
    They only reported it. Blizz outright said they hired the law firm and they hired them because they successfully stopped unionization for Amazon. Don't have to like the source, but in this case, the source is Blizzard.

  9. #629
    Spam Assassin! MoanaLisa's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kiwijello View Post
    They only reported it. Blizz outright said they hired the law firm and they hired them because they successfully stopped unionization for Amazon. Don't have to like the source, but in this case, the source is Blizzard.
    I'm going to split some hairs on that. Kotick in Santa Monica hired the law firm. Blizzard in Anaheim had no say in it.
    "...money's most powerful ability is to allow bad people to continue doing bad things at the expense of those who don't have it."

  10. #630
    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I don't know why people keep trying to witch hunt greg, Like he commit the things in the accusations himself
    Because it's witch hunt time on twitter. Seriously. Some of these people consider themselves judge, jury and executioner.

  11. #631
    Quote Originally Posted by Berndorf View Post
    That's not entirely true. There had been accusations made about him prior to that going back to many years earlier that simply weren't prosecuted and there were rumors about him partaking in that sort of behavior for quite a while as well. Thus why you had comedians calling him out for it on stage. More so in certain circles. It is quite possible that the devs who gathered in the Cosby suite were fully aware of those rumors.
    And aside from one settlement (that didn't get much media attention at the time anyway), nothing really came out of those. Cosby's reputation and career were still fine in the first half of 2014 (as in , even after the Blizzcon in question) and it's only the barrage of accusations from that year that changed it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  12. #632
    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    And aside from one settlement (that didn't get much media attention at the time anyway), nothing really came out of those. Cosby's reputation and career were still fine in the first half of 2014 (as in , even after the Blizzcon in question) and it's only the barrage of accusations from that year that changed it.
    I wouldn't actually argue that the suite was there so they could drug and rape women. Regardless of the name, I don't think anything that bad happened there unless some women who visited there are going to start popping up with first hand accounts of what happened to them. I think that suite was more or less an extension of how the higher ups you used it viewed Blizzard and its fans though. As a big playground where they could get drunk and shuttle women into under the guise of networking or getting to party with wow bigwigs who basically got treated like rockstars within the context of Blizzcon. Whether that in itself is wrong would be up the person to decide.

  13. #633
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    "Cos approved" has been reported elsewhere as a text comment about the picture. If true it knocks the legs out from under the notion that the room was about Cosby's sweater or the walls of some conference room at Blizzard that looks perfectly normal.
    Considering they called themselves the "BlizzCon Cosby Crew", isn't it very likely that "Cos approved" would just mean either "approved by the Blizzcon Cosby crew" or "approved by/for the 'Cosby Suite'?

    In the group chat, after a message that one is at the bar, another replies "Come up to the cos". Seems to me "cos" is just a diminuitive they used to refer to the suite and/or their group.
    Last edited by Kolvarg; 2021-07-30 at 01:17 AM.

  14. #634
    Quote Originally Posted by Saltysquidoon View Post
    Shockingly I don't have group chats with my co-workers about acquiring women to ply with alcohol and attempt to gain sexual advantage of at work events. If you do you might wish to report those people to the police.
    Neither did they. You merrily added the parts about plying anyone with alcohol and anything pertaining to sexual advantages all by yourself. Also, yea, BlizzCon is a super serious work. Especially the after hours when people party in their free time. Something something shrieking MRAs
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  15. #635
    Are there petitions for renaming McCree from Overwatch and the Mac'Aree zone on Argus from World of Warcraft already?

  16. #636
    Quote Originally Posted by MoanaLisa View Post
    I'm going to split some hairs on that. Kotick in Santa Monica hired the law firm. Blizzard in Anaheim had no say in it.
    The guy in charge hired them. He controls Blizzard from Activision. You aren't splitting hairs, you are making excuses...

  17. #637
    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    You do realise that it’s not hard when you’re in and around the entertainment industry to know things way before the ‘public’ does, right? Or maybe you do. Oh well. No time to argue with people who label everything ‘woke’ as a dismissal for their inability to negotiate basics in their head.
    Yeah, because the entertainment industry is one giant hive mind. A bunch of tech geeks constantly mingle with the Hollywood crowd. Hell, all of the people in the picture must have personally known Cosby. No doubt about that. Ghostcrawler also videotaped every case of Weinstein's misconduct as he was with him all the time and chose not to make it public


    Quote Originally Posted by Valkyrst View Post
    If you make shit up and/or use one tiny bit of irrelevant information, I'll just not pay attention.

    My wife works fucking mental hours at her work. She's got an MBA. She's way more qualified in her field than I am in mine.

    I work 8-9 hours on average a day. She works 11-12 hours on average a day, and it's an intellectually driven job she does.

    Her company definitely doesn't factor in those hours into how they determine her pay scale. So yep, you're chatting shit.
    You not understanding what "on average" means doesn't mean @zorkuus is making shit up. Your anecdotal piece if trivia doesn't even begin to address what he said. That on average men work longer hours than women in US comes from US census data.
    Last edited by Mehrunes; 2021-07-30 at 01:58 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  18. #638
    Pit Lord Magical Mudcrab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mehrunes View Post
    You not understanding what "on average" means doesn't mean @zorkuus is maliny shit up. Your anecdotal piece if trivia doesn't even begin to address what he said.
    The problem is that the Wage Gap is a foregone conclusion, we already know that it exists in the West (esp. the Americas; refer to Pew Research). At the current time what is up for debate is the amount, as parity has not yet been reached. I believe the U.S. dept. of labor also published a report in which argued that the wage gap was as low as 4-6%, though I don't have a link to that one as it has been a while since I talked about the wage gap.

    That said, the wage gap is an especially difficult conversation to have. What seems to always happen is that one side becomes irate due to emotional investment in the issue (i.e.: believing that the cause of the wage gap and arguments about it are due to intentional discrimination than implicit bias or ignorance), and the other side will put forward arguments that are only plausible explanations to laypersons (i.e.: people who sit and argue that not all factors are accounted for, ignoring the fact that it's people's job to account for whatever factors could impact studies done on employee wages).

    ** EDIT **
    I believe this is the report, quoted the relevant section to what I was stating, though will have the full document linked below:
    Quote Originally Posted by An Analysis of the Reasons for the Disparity in Wages Between Men and Women
    Statistical analysis that includes those variables has produced results that collectively account for between 65.1 and 76.4 percent of a raw gender wage gap of 20.4 percent, and thereby leave an adjusted gender wage gap that is between 4.8 and 7.1 percent.
    - Source
    Last edited by Magical Mudcrab; 2021-07-30 at 01:59 AM.
    Sylvanas didn't even win the popular vote, she was elected by an indirect election of representatives. #NotMyWarchief

  19. #639
    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    The problem is that the Wage Gap is a foregone conclusion, we already know that it exists in the West (esp. the Americas; refer to Pew Research).
    Kinda too late for me to go in-depth, but from the first few pages, aside from one self-report survey indicating actual discrimination, this article uses "wage gap" in the mostly meaningless manner of comparing all men to all women and going about 77, 83 or whatever cents on a dollar. Which, while having various interesting social connotations, is not particularly relevant to the narrow meaning of wage gap as women being discriminated against by earning less than their co-workers for the same job that was the point of @zorkuus' posts in question.


    Quote Originally Posted by Magical Mudcrab View Post
    At the current time what is up for debate is the amount, as parity has not yet been reached. I believe the U.S. dept. of labor also published a report in which argued that the wage gap was as low as 4-6%, though I don't have a link to that one as it has been a while since I talked about the wage gap.

    That said, the wage gap is an especially difficult conversation to have. What seems to always happen is that one side becomes irate due to emotional investment in the issue (i.e.: believing that the cause of the wage gap and arguments about it are due to intentional discrimination than implicit bias or ignorance), and the other side will put forward arguments that are only plausible explanations to laypersons (i.e.: people who sit and argue that not all factors are accounted for, ignoring the fact that it's people's job to account for whatever factors could impact studies done on employee wages).

    ** EDIT **
    I believe this is the report, quoted the relevant section to what I was stating, though will have the full document linked below:

    - Source
    And as DoL itself mentioned in the very next paragraph (and also in the one preceding it a bit), the list of factors they adjusted for is not exhaustive and they simply can't measure it properly.

    Additional portions of the raw gender wage gap are attributable to other explanatory factors that have
    been identified in the existing economic literature, but cannot be analyzed satisfactorily using only data
    from the 2007 CPS. Those factors include, for example, health insurance, other fringe benefits, and
    detailed features of overtime work, which are sources of wage adjustments that compensate specific
    groups of workers for benefits or duties that disproportionately affect them. Analysis of such
    compensating wage adjustments generally requires data from several independent and, often,
    specialized sources.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kangodo View Post
    Does the CIA pay you for your bullshit or are you just bootlicking in your free time?
    Quote Originally Posted by Mirishka View Post
    I'm quite tired of people who dislike something/disagree with something while attacking/insulting anyone that disagrees. Its as if at some point, people forgot how opinions work.

  20. #640
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    Quote Originally Posted by Syegfryed View Post
    I don't know why people keep trying to witch hunt greg, .
    Angry paladins.
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