Ashes of Creation - new open world MMORPG

[potis]

Don't know if anyone is watching, but Steven Sharif (Lead Dev) is currently a guest on AllCraft.

Podcast on Twitch, by Asmongold and Rich.J.Campbell.

Steven can talk, seem to have some real good takes on design philosophies.

But man, all this lofty talk about elaborate political, economical systems... Playing driven camp/city development (basically player activity determines where cities pop up.

It all sounds good, but most of the things he talks about doesn't seem remotely feasible to actually put into a game...

If half of that is true, then they didnt learn from every other game out there.

Russians and chinese will destroy servers as usual, anything "player driven" is bound to fail when no limitations are introduced.

People on mmo-champion need to sit back, relax and stop jumping the bandwagon on every new MMO that releases, so they can tell themselves "Yeah, take that Blizzard, watch how my 10$ is no longer yours for the next 2 months".

It just creates this unnecessary hype for the game, which in the end is just the devs of every game thinking they are gonna be a success, and everything they do is right, and the game is dead in 6 months because of those decisions.

I wont lie that the game looks interesting and i hope it actually does some things right, but they are a long way from that, animations and all.

[Ausr]

If half of that is true, then they didnt learn from every other game out there.

Russians and chinese will destroy servers as usual, anything "player driven" is bound to fail when no limitations are introduced.

People on mmo-champion need to sit back, relax and stop jumping the bandwagon on every new MMO that releases, so they can tell themselves "Yeah, take that Blizzard, watch how my 10$ is no longer yours for the next 2 months".

It just creates this unnecessary hype for the game, which in the end is just the devs of every game thinking they are gonna be a success, and everything they do is right, and the game is dead in 6 months.

It's becoming the new "don't preorder," although that should've been said years ago.

[potis]

It's becoming the new "don't preorder," although that should've been said years ago.

Pretty much, it simply baffles me, how the MMO gaming scene simply doesnt understand they are ruining the games before they even release for literally the last 10 years.

[kaminaris]

If half of that is true, then they didnt learn from every other game out there.

Russians and chinese will destroy servers as usual, anything "player driven" is bound to fail when no limitations are introduced.

People on mmo-champion need to sit back, relax and stop jumping the bandwagon on every new MMO that releases, so they can tell themselves "Yeah, take that Blizzard, watch how my 10$ is no longer yours for the next 2 months".

It just creates this unnecessary hype for the game, which in the end is just the devs of every game thinking they are gonna be a success, and everything they do is right, and the game is dead in 6 months because of those decisions.

I wont lie that the game looks interesting and i hope it actually does some things right, but they are a long way from that, animations and all.

That is the loser POV, the thing is, of course it can work. Because it already works. Good example is eve online.

Now the straight facts are:

1. This guy is obviously a gamer, the sheer amount of time he spent in games must be insane.
2. He knows exactly what kind of problems are infesting other mmos. I often keep hearing things from him that I said years ago (not the other way around). That alone puts him far ahead in position.
3. He believes in transparency and dialogue. Again, you can hear that his words doesn't sound like a PR bullshit. He's not afraid of swearing, hes not afraid of making fun of streamers. Like presenting bald options for asmongold.
4. He has a CLEAR vision of how his game should look like. People are tired of retarded roller coaster designs, me included.
5. Straight up says you are not losing anything by not preordering.
6. No shareholders. While I don't believe in "evil shareholders mantra", that gives them a bit more flexibility.
7. Content is a fucking king.


here is the video with timestamp:

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1080410941?t=5h19m5s


NOW. Obviously you gotta be skeptical but sometimes people are going on new level of mental gymnastics here.

[Struggle]

Did something new come out in the last six months to warrant talking about this game? Or is it still the Star Citizen of MMORPGs that promise everything and deliver nothing? Last I checked two years ago it was still in alpha, and it still appears to be just about exactly where it was...

[potis]

snip

Not gonna watch his presentation, i dont care about the game, my point stands as someone that follows the gaming scene overall since i was 13 years old, so 21 years now.

WE as players have created this endless loophole of terrible MMOs because we overhype them to get back the feeling of new, that feeling you had 15-20 years ago with some MMO.

Ashes of creation is going through the same thing, flashy graphics, slightly less terrible than the average Eastern MMO with some Western ideas and its getting overhyped, anyone that cant see that is lying his eyes out.

But they need to be careful, from the summary above that we are talking about i can already see two massive red flags.

Anything "player driven" is bound to fail, for multiple reasons, the reason in every single game the last 25 years is expecting people not to be assholes, or even worst "the being the best" fake feeling specific countries get by swarming the server with communities and basically making it unplayable.

And the second red flag is any sort of siege is bound to fail for the same reason.

All those ideas are always decent on paper, but 20 years of same ideas have been proven to not work, an indie dev wont magically make it work just because his MMO is flashy.

[kaminaris]

Not gonna watch his presentation, i dont care about the game, my point stands as someone that follows the gaming scene overall since i was 13 years old, so 21 years now.

WE as players have created this endless loophole of terrible MMOs because we overhype them to get back the feeling of new, that feeling you had 15-20 years ago with some MMO.

No.
You as a players created endless loop of terrible games in general (not just mmos) because you are either unable to judge things by yourself or settle for bad solutions. If something is shit, vote with wallet. Or scream loudly on forums.

Ashes of creation is going through the same thing, flashy graphics, slightly less terrible than the average Eastern MMO with some Western ideas and its getting overhyped, anyone that cant see that is lying his eyes out.

Hype is absolutely irrelevant. Nobody should give a fuck about it. Only straight facts. Those give promise. It's as simple as that.

If blizzard announced new MMO with straight up PR bullshit talk I would be a lot more skeptical.
Seeing actual gamer bashing blizzard (yes he literally bashed wow all the time) for exact same reasons I've started disliking wow gives a promise that he won't make same mistakes.

BUT company =/= friend. The moment they betray trust is the moment to vote with wallet.

But they need to be careful, from the summary above that we are talking about i can already see two massive red flags.

Anything "player driven" is bound to fail, for multiple reasons, the reason in every single game the last 25 years is expecting people not to be assholes, or even worst "the being the best" fake feeling specific countries get by swarming the server with communities and basically making it unplayable.

No, that is just your opinion, as I said, there are games with player driven economy and entire world building that works properly.

And the second red flag is any sort of siege is bound to fail for the same reason.

All those ideas are always decent on paper, but 20 years of same ideas have been proven to not work, an indie dev wont magically make it work just because his MMO is flashy.

So according to you "proven to not work" = working in some games and not working in couple of others?
https://www.reddit.com/r/MMORPG/comm...ge_of_castles/
No, you just copy the design from a game where this idea works.

Because literally nothing in AoC (maybe except for node system) is something innovative. Most of their ideas are taken from other mmos.

[Yriel]

4. He has a CLEAR vision of how his game should look like. People are tired of retarded roller coaster designs, me included.

Are they, though?
From what i saw every single fantasy sandbox FFA PvP game was super hyped before launch. "This time it will be different. They are listening to us. There are systems preventing exploits. They have a clear vision."
And then all the games died really quick because on one side all the noobs get tired of being ganked 24/7 and all those "It would be sooo cool if my guild controlled a city" people realize that there are one, maybe two hardcore guilds controlling everything and they are just peasents.

[dlld]

Are they, though?
From what i saw every single fantasy sandbox FFA PvP game was super hyped before launch. "This time it will be different. They are listening to us. There are systems preventing exploits. They have a clear vision."
And then all the games died really quick because on one side all the noobs get tired of being ganked 24/7 and all those "It would be sooo cool if my guild controlled a city" people realize that there are one, maybe two hardcore guilds controlling everything and they are just peasents.

Yeah these games kinda lives on the idea that there is uncertainty in who wins to be exciting and fun, however usually one guild attracts all the most skilled and/or no-lifers and nobody is really able to dethrone them and they just sit there and grow fat on the rewards that tend to also make them even harder to dethrone.

[infinitemeridian]

Man that alpha...this game is looking extremely rough.

[kaminaris]

Are they, though?
From what i saw every single fantasy sandbox FFA PvP game was super hyped before launch. "This time it will be different. They are listening to us. There are systems preventing exploits. They have a clear vision."
And then all the games died really quick because on one side all the noobs get tired of being ganked 24/7 and all those "It would be sooo cool if my guild controlled a city" people realize that there are one, maybe two hardcore guilds controlling everything and they are just peasents.

I mean thats exactly what I am talking about. You clearly don't like pvp component so at this point you can safely say its not going to be a game for you. Not when it releases nor 4 years after that.

Yes it will be unfair, yes you will get kicked in ass. And if you feel the need to be the best in everything then it's definitely not going to be a game for you.

I realize some people treat this game as coming of Christ for mmorpg genere but this pure delusion.
Its a game that focuses itself on specific audience. Namely 3 titles: Archage, Lineage and Ultima.

And by the way, none of the systems are preventing exploits, those will happen absolutely. And its ok. If its going to be a big problem then they will have to rethink their stance.

[nRes]

Its a game that focuses itself on specific audience. Namely 3 titles: Archage, Lineage and Ultima.

You're right but so far it seems like Ashes is closer to Albion Online, except Albion Online already does all of this stuff quite well with the exception of sieges.

[kaminaris]

Man that alpha...this game is looking extremely rough.

I don't know why gaming industry got retarded in that regard in the first place but that is exactly what alpha should be. I can say that as 10y+ exp in development.

What you been getting from other companies labeled as alphas are in fact betas.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Softwa...ase_life_cycle

You know where this meme came from?


From betas labeled as alphas which were in a stage where some serious changes were not possible anymore.

- - - Updated - - -

You're right but so far it seems like Ashes is closer to Albion Online, except Albion Online already does all of this stuff quite well with the exception of sieges.

Like I said before,

Because literally nothing in AoC (maybe except for node system) is something innovative. Most of their ideas are taken from other mmos.

If people think that AoC will revolutionize the genere they are going to be extremely dissapointed.

[Festisio]

I don't know why gaming industry got retarded in that regard in the first place but that is exactly what alpha should be. I can say that as 10y+ exp in development.

An alpha from this nascent studio is probably closer to a beta from a AAA publisher (in terms of progress to "finished" product). The combined experience of Intrepid's developers pales compared to that of others that have been before them and failed to crack the mmo market.

I am doubtful that the released product will be markedly dissimilar to what we are seeing today.

It is dead on arrival.

[ryanmahaffe]

The community is pathetic, if you point out that this game looks almost identical to what was shown at pax 3 years ago they just regurgitate the same talking points over and over again.

Games progress is on a treadmill.

[Big Thanks]

The community is pathetic, if you point out that this game looks almost identical to what was shown at pax 3 years ago they just regurgitate the same talking points over and over again.

Games progress is on a treadmill.

I dont get it...what "looks the same"? The graphics?

Im not very informed at all but i have no idea what you mean. The game wasnt even playable 3 years ago :S

[kaminaris]

An alpha from this nascent studio is probably closer to a beta from a AAA publisher (in terms of progress to "finished" product). The combined experience of Intrepid's developers pales compared to that of others that have been before them and failed to crack the mmo market.

I am doubtful that the released product will be markedly dissimilar to what we are seeing today.

It is dead on arrival.

You don't understand what alpha is. It's NOT SUPPOSE to be close to finished product, if it is, you are not giving players alpha, you are giving them beta. Beta that is at stage where some heavy changes are no longer possible.

[Mendzia]

I've been watching a lot of videos/streams from alpha... and i lost most of my interest of this game.
I dunno... it does not look good and interesting to me honestly.

[neik]

Another PvP game. Forced pvp is quite disgusting and inconsiderate to be honest. PVE players will leave this as soon as the ich is over. This will flop sooner than they think.

[Vampiregenesis]

I don't get it, why is this game so good and everyone talks about it? It looks like a generic fantasy mmo to me similar to ESO. I saw a scene with a siege on youtube and it looked cool but overall I don't understand what systems it has that will drive it to the top.

What is so attractive about this game besides the graphics?