Employee Response to Bobby Kotick, Additional Information on Cosby Suite

[Delever]

Cosby was accused, and it was made public, long before the 2013 photo of them posing with a framed picture of him. It just didn’t became mainstream in the media until 2014, and then that was followed with many more victims stepping forward.

OK. Can you please explain to me why would a bunch of well known blizzard employees and public figures openly use it as a joke and publicly tweet about it if they knew about it? And if you see the responses to the tweets from back then not a single soul bats an eye about the reference be it male or female.

[Xath]

The problem is that the Wage Gap is a foregone conclusion, we already know that it exists in the West (esp. the Americas; refer to Pew Research). At the current time what is up for debate is the amount, as parity has not yet been reached. I believe the U.S. dept. of labor also published a report in which argued that the wage gap was as low as 4-6%, though I don't have a link to that one as it has been a while since I talked about the wage gap.

That said, the wage gap is an especially difficult conversation to have. What seems to always happen is that one side becomes irate due to emotional investment in the issue (i.e.: believing that the cause of the wage gap and arguments about it are due to intentional discrimination than implicit bias or ignorance), and the other side will put forward arguments that are only plausible explanations to laypersons (i.e.: people who sit and argue that not all factors are accounted for, ignoring the fact that it's people's job to account for whatever factors could impact studies done on employee wages).

** EDIT **
I believe this is the report, quoted the relevant section to what I was stating, though will have the full document linked below:

- Source

If you want the biggest reason for the wage gap it's actually pretty simple without even talking about propensity to argue for higher salaries. Most promotions and wage bumps are based on time spent. Maternity leave doesn't count as time spent with the company if you take out a 3+ month chunk somewhat early in career that makes a huge difference. Not saying that's right just saying the US is very behind in terms of how companies treat parents. Paternity leave is basically unheard of and maternity leave isn't counted as time with the company.

[Timester]

Just a total sidetone from this Cosby chat. Metzen said he didn't work with Alex since like WOTLK and only really dealt with him at story jams.



They seem pretty pally here in 2018. So it's all just a bit muddy, really. And no, I'm not implying Metzen is a creep.

But I am saying it'll be really odd if he didn't know Alex had issues dating back that long.

To be fair with Metzen, he was drunk and high all the time. He had his own ghosts to deal with, so its possible that he truly misunderstood all the signs.

[Xath]

Cosby was accused, and it was made public, long before the 2013 photo of them posing with a framed picture of him. It just didn’t became mainstream in the media until 2014, and then that was followed with many more victims stepping forward.

No it wasn't there was one case back in like 2004 that was dismissed. Again if it was well known you wouldn't name a suite that you plan to take advantage of women in after him. It's real simple he was an insanely well known comedian who blizz's top brass was 100 percent in the age range that would have grown up hearing his jokes and seeing stuff like the fat albert show. Their green room apparently had a distasteful carpet that reminded them of the sweaters he wore and since that time whatever the hangout room was got called that. Really not hard to comprehend. If the accusations were well known you wouldn't name a room that you are literally telling people to come to by that name the Cosby Suite. This isn't hard to comprehend there is enough bad shit without trying to claim that somehow the top part of blizzard knew about the upcoming accusations but none of the people they were inviting did.

[Katchii]

OK. Can you please explain to me why would a bunch of well known blizzard employees and public figures openly use it as a joke and publicly tweet about it if they knew about it? And if you see the responses to the tweets from back then not a single soul bats an eye about the reference be it male or female.

This is exactly my take.

There's no way that the room was purposely named after a known rapist, posted about unironically on social media in reference to a rapist where they planned on sexually harassing employees and others and allegedly raping them, talking about it openly as a joke with members of the community and staff, and them still be able to hold jobs for as long as they have while not being investigated at all or even arrested.

It being called the "Cosby Suite" is most definitely not in direct relation to him being a rapist. Everyone involved and OK with it being called "The Cosby Suite" at the time would have to be beyond tone deaf and stupid to do that, and none of those people are that stupid. At least not THAT kind of stupid. Frat boy, brodude, drunk college party, make bad decisions stupid....not "hey I'm going to name my room after a rapist, break the law and company policy and then post about it on social media and talk about it openly, get the boss in on the joke and expect not get fired, caught or arrested" levels of stupid.

[Delever]

No it wasn't there was one case back in like 2004 that was dismissed. Again if it was well known you wouldn't name a suite that you plan to take advantage of women in after him. It's real simple he was an insanely well known comedian who blizz's top brass was 100 percent in the age range that would have grown up hearing his jokes and seeing stuff like the fat albert show. Their green room apparently had a distasteful carpet that reminded them of the sweaters he wore and since that time whatever the hangout room was got called that. Really not hard to comprehend. If the accusations were well known you wouldn't name a room that you are literally telling people to come to by that name the Cosby Suite. This isn't hard to comprehend there is enough bad shit without trying to claim that somehow the top part of blizzard knew about the upcoming accusations but none of the people they were inviting did.

Pretty much this. I m glad there are people out there with some modicum of logic. Blizz is undeniably and rightfully in deep shit. But the cosby suite thing doesn't seem to be related to the rest.

[Timester]

The Kotaku article mentions the hotel room was Afrasiabi’s. But then there are other sources, such as Greg Street that say it was a company green room. Someone's coloring the story.

It's the lawsuit that presents it as Afrasiabi's suite.

[Eapoe]

OK. Can you please explain to me why a bunch of well known blizzard employees openly use it as a joke and publicly tweet about it if they knew about it? And if you see the responses to the tweets from back then not a single soul bats an eye about the reference be it male or female.

Because he was never found guilty up to that point. Look how many jokes were made about Michael Jackson after he was accused of being a pedophile. How many people still went to his shows just to see him live and get autographs after that incident. Imagine how they would feel if new evidence ever came out to prove it actually happened.
In 2013, Cosby had never been found guilty of past allegations. I can easily see some off the cuff joke being made of Afrasiabi having to “pull a Cosby” to get intimate with someone and that remark taking on a life of its own, up to the point someone getting the framed photo as a joke in an attempt to embarrass him in good fun. Fast forward a year later and it becomes mainstream and more victims step forward and your joke ages poorly and you’re just sitting there like “maybe we went too far with this.”
Did this scenario happen? I have no f’ing clue. I’m just giving a possible scenario as to what you asked. It very well could have been what some employees stated about ugly walls or carpets.
At the time of the photo, accusations existed, guilt didn’t. There were probably hundreds to thousands of people, if not many more, making jokes and references at Cosby’s expense that people had no idea were about something that happened and was true.

[Timester]

But the cosby suite thing doesn't seem to be related to the rest.

Of course it is (except for the name). Because the allegations against Alex are regarding what happened inside the suite.

Really, it's not that hard.

[zorkuus]

Because he was never found guilty up to that point. Look how many jokes were made about Michael Jackson after he was accused of being a pedophile.

When Michael Jackson was accused it was immediately all over the media. The Bill Cosby stuff, prior to 2014 wasn't. I hadn't heard a peep about it.

[Mikah]

I'd love to see all the private group chat messages from all of these people that are holier than thou, ready to burn everyone with great vengeance and furious anger over some dumbass comments they made 10 years ago. This whole Cosby suite chat thing feels like a diversion from the actual problems like the working conditions and the extremely reprehensible way some women in the company were treated by certain known individuals (individuals that will pay). Sensationalism rules.

I feel the same. There are a lot of points from this, and it has to be taken in the whole perspective of the time and place.

1- Blizzard back then was a pioneer in interacting with fans, both on their forums and creating events such as Blizzcon. Before that, people were lucky to find a website with beta details and a few discussion forums to report bugs. No one in the industry had experience with that kind of stuff, and the face of the people working in these places was very ‘nerd male engineers’. Essentially, they are now blamed for innovating back then, which does not meet today’s standards anymore.

2- Put up a panel of 7-8 computer nerds in their twenties/thirties with no training or experience in public relations to answer questions to the public for 2 hours, and you will have some very awkward questions and answers. Honestly, I bet none of you would have done better answering those questions in the same situation.

3- The whole gaming industry (and everything related such as comics) has really changed in the last 10 years. There are a lot more female employees taking their place, and there are a lot of changes on how things are happening. I feel sorry for the experience that a lot of women had to go through, but I think it is improving, not the opposite. Obviously, the first few women that spearheaded and got into this industry got it rough. It is not different from any other jobs where that happened.

I think our standards have really changed for the better, but going back 15 years ago and blaming these people for what they have done is not helping anyone. It is far more important how they learned and grown from that now. Afrasiabi seemed to have never grown out of it and was a problem dealt with. But this witch hunt going after things from another era is indeed just sensationalism.

[Delever]

Because he was never found guilty up to that point. Look how many jokes were made about Michael Jackson after he was accused of being a pedophile. How many people still went to his shows just to see him live and get autographs after that incident. Imagine how they would feel if new evidence ever came out to prove it actually happened.
In 2013, Cosby had never been found guilty of past allegations. I can easily see some off the cuff joke being made of Afrasiabi having to “pull a Cosby” to get intimate with someone and that remark taking on a life of its own, up to the point someone getting the framed photo as a joke in an attempt to embarrass him in good fun. Fast forward a year later and it becomes mainstream and more victims step forward and your joke ages poorly and you’re just sitting there like “maybe we went too far with this.”
Did this scenario happen? I have no f’ing clue. I’m just giving a possible scenario as to what you asked. It very well could have been what some employees stated about ugly walls or carpets.
At the time of the photo, accusations existed, guilt didn’t. There were probably hundreds to thousands of people, if not many more, making jokes and references at Cosby’s expense that people had no idea were about something that happened and was true.

And I completely agree with you that such a scenario is totally possible. The reason it doesn't seem likely however is because this is not dug up from a personal chat that they hid. These are public figures, well trained in PR talk, publicly tweeting this several times without a single comment at the time on social media condemning them. There should have been at least ONE person telling them that this was inappropriate no?

[Eapoe]

No it wasn't there was one case back in like 2004 that was dismissed. Again if it was well known you wouldn't name a suite that you plan to take advantage of women in after him. It's real simple he was an insanely well known comedian who blizz's top brass was 100 percent in the age range that would have grown up hearing his jokes and seeing stuff like the fat albert show. Their green room apparently had a distasteful carpet that reminded them of the sweaters he wore and since that time whatever the hangout room was got called that. Really not hard to comprehend. If the accusations were well known you wouldn't name a room that you are literally telling people to come to by that name the Cosby Suite. This isn't hard to comprehend there is enough bad shit without trying to claim that somehow the top part of blizzard knew about the upcoming accusations but none of the people they were inviting did.

As stated to other people, it’s quite possible that it was an off the cuff joke that took on a life of its own. I’ve never stated that Blizzard employees ever assaulted anyone. I’ve only stated that it’s quite possible it has nothing to do with ugly walls or carpet, especially when the walls in the photos are white.

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And I completely agree with you that such a scenario is totally possible. The reason it doesn't seem likely however is because this is not dug up from a personal chat that they hid. These are public figures, well trained in PR talk, publicly tweeting this several times without a single comment at the time on social media condemning them. There should have been at least ONE person telling them that this was inappropriate no?

There possibly was. We don’t know. There very well could have been people going “that’s just wrong.” Just not in a manner that made them give pause or any deep thought to it.
It’s also very easy to get caught up in a joke without ever realizing that it’s gone too far. Just look at how many celebrities we have today apologizing for jokes they’ve made in the past.

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When Michael Jackson was accused it was immediately all over the media. The Bill Cosby stuff, prior to 2014 wasn't. I hadn't heard a peep about it.

That somehow changes the point?

[zorkuus]

That somehow changes the point?

Well duh? The Michael Jackson accusations were known by everyone. The Bill Cosby accusations were mere rumors heard only by few.

[Delever]

As stated to other people, it’s quite possible that it was an off the cuff joke that took on a life of its own. I’ve never stated that Blizzard employees ever assaulted anyone. I’ve only stated that it’s quite possible it has nothing to do with ugly walls or carpet, especially when the walls in the photos are white.

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There possibly was. We don’t know. There very well could have been people going “that’s just wrong.” Just not in a manner that made them give pause or any deep thought to it.
It’s also very easy to get caught up in a joke without ever realizing that it’s gone too far. Just look at how many celebrities we have today apologizing for jokes they’ve made in the past.

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That somehow changes the point?

And you re right on that also. The thing is that how moral is it to judge said celebrities jokes for example with the values of today when these jokes were made under different moral values that at the time were morally and socially accepted?

[Kolvarg]

Yes, it is by default a work event. Any interaction between two employees in or out of the office is as a starting position a work event, it is up to the employer to show the interaction was so entirely removed from the course of employment it should not be considered so.

I don't know if there's any legal basis for you to say that, but as far as I'm concerned a party between employees isn't a "work party" unless it was organized by/at and for work. Employees are humans and they're free to do whatever they want when they're not at work. You might be right for the purposes of the lawsuit, it just doesn't make much sense to me personally.

Now sure, during a Blizzcon they are effectively on a work trip, almost certainly with hotel rooms paid by the company, so there's definitely a bit of grey area there, but I don't think that makes the company responsible for every little thing they might do. Let's say a husband and wife work on the same company and go on work trip. They stay in the same hotel. Is it wrong for them to behave like a couple inside their hotel room because they are "at work"?

I'm all for responsibilizing companies and protecting employees when it makes sense, but this seems like a stretch to me personally, it would be like saying if an employee runs over someone with the company car the company is somehow guilty. When they are at the blizzcon arena, they are at work, representing their company. When they go to their hotel rooms at night not so much.

It's very likely a stretch to think a shadowy cabal where using blizzard as a cover to intentionally in concert abuse women and all attendees of said events either approved of this or intentionally fail to act.
Is it likely this is just emblematic of a problematic culture at blizzard that allowed predators like afrasiabi to flourish and opened the door for unequal treatment of women and minorities, probably.

I suppose I'm looking at it more from a human perspective, rather than what it might mean for the company and the lawsuit. I'm not at all against the lawsuit or against investigating it further, just about the people who are immediately judging everyone remotely involved based on very little information.

Does it look bad? Hell yeah. Is it inappropriate? I would personally say so. Does it prove that anyone was harassed or abused at that party, or that everyone who attended is a shitty person? I don't think so.

[Lorgran]

If your police department consists of nothing but white officers who are regularly killing black people, it's generally considered a reasonable move to replace the chief with someone who is black in order to boost confidence that reform measures are more than simply lip-service. In Blizzard's case, so far all the management people have been making excuses for themselves or suggesting it didn't happen or was just a joke, etc. and I don't feel it's going to be possible for them to survive this until they have someone in charge who can't be accused of being just another sexist male.

Wouldn't it be even better to get a male who changes things around, so people see that there are "normal" males too?
Or even better, wouldn't it be best to have a _person_ to changes things around? Not a sex!

[Eapoe]

Well duh? The Michael Jackson accusations were known by everyone. The Bill Cosby accusations were mere rumors heard only by few.

And you’re saying that people in Blizzard had absolutely no way of knowing? Cosby had public accusations in 2004 and 2006. Just because it wasn’t mainstream media at the time doesn’t mean it had no coverage at all. Hell, I’m pretty sure I heard about it back then. There were rumors and dark humor jokes back as far as the 90’s being told about him. It was just never mainstream until 2014 because nothing ever stuck and no one could believe Cosby could be guilty of such a thing.

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And you re right on that also. The thing is that how moral is it to judge said celebrities jokes for example with the values of today when these jokes were made under different moral values that at the time were morally and socially accepted?

That would happen to be the million dollar question.

[zorkuus]

And you’re saying that people in Blizzard had absolutely no way of knowing?

We have no way of knowing what they knew. It's kinda pointless to dwell on that point.

[Ezzet]

Street is copping shit because he released a public statement with the usual platitudes and vague tut tuting a day before the whole cosby suit thing dropped which implicated he was present and knew about more of the culture (not necessarily any harassment) than he let on.
Basically, he's got a bit of a case of foot in mouth, unless something significantly worse comes out he'll be fine he just looks like a tool.

What are you on about, you are litterly part of the cancelmob based on barely nothing.