Employee Response to Bobby Kotick, Additional Information on Cosby Suite

[Soon-TM]

How about instead of defending a ridiculously fraught workplace party hosted by a sex pest wherein they 'allegedly' did some sex pesting, we do some critical analysis of why we feel the need to defend said party.

Don't waste your breath, you are talking to the same guy who says that women cannot be trusted because when they say "no", they actually mean the opposite /facepalm

EDIT: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...1#post53311059

[Kolvarg]

Cosby had public accusations in 2004 and 2006. Just because it wasn’t mainstream media at the time doesn’t mean it had no coverage at all. Hell, I’m pretty sure I heard about it back then. There were rumors and dark humor jokes back as far as the 90’s being told about him. It was just never mainstream until 2014 because nothing ever stuck and no one could believe Cosby could be guilty of such a thing.

I think even if they did know about the accusations, Cosby's reputation and public image still was incredibly different.

Here's some info from Google Trends: 2013 2014
Rape allegations related to bill cosby searches don't show up at all in 2013, either in top 25 or in trending. The top #6 related topic to Bill Cosby in 2013 was "Sweater". Other popular related topics include "meme" and "internet meme". It's in September 2014 that the association starts, and in October that it really becomes predominant.

If it was common knowledge by 2013, then Hannibal Buress' stand-up routine (that went viral and seems to trully have brought it to the public) wouldn't make much sense, considering it was centered about Cosby's public perception still being positive despite the allegations. "When the audience responded to Buress's accusation with incredulity (Philadelphia being Cosby's home town), he encouraged everyone to search for 'Bill Cosby rape' on Google when they got home".

Moreover, some of Cosby's victims who came forward after it went viral in late 2014 said themselves that they didn't know about the accusations previously.

48 allegations were made against him on 2014 and onwards, vs 13 on or before 2013.

Even if the allegations were "common knowledge", Bill Cosby's public image was still that of an old TV icon, not of a serial rapist, by 2013. Which makes the context completely different than people are judging it for. Certainly not anywhere near what it is today.

On top of that, the joke was shared multiple times publicly - you can see in the tweets that people dug out that no one even raised an eyebrow at them back then - which again suggests it did not have a negative connotation at all back then.


Is it still possible that they knew of the allegations and were making a "secret" rape joke? I suppose. But it's extremely unlikely imo.

[jellmoo]

Hello, restaurant industry worker here. White dudes get made fun of all the time for being white.

Power and privilege is relative and not confined to any race or sex, no matter what you want to believe

Anecdotal evidence is just that, anecdotal. There's a reason why derogatory names for white people get laughed off as inconsequential whilst those for other races most certainly do not. Power, privilege and the weight of sheer history radically scale the impact of these things, no matter what you want to believe.

[Saltysquidoon]

What are you on about, you are litterly part of the cancelmob based on barely nothing.

In the post you quoted I said he'll be fine, what are you on about I was just pointing out why he's copping flak.

But seeing how you're accusing me of being in a cancel mob maybe you were just "confused". Are we to expect some more mask slippage in a future post?

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This is not true at all. 2 coworkers are allowed to do stuff outside of work together and it is no where near considered a work event. I hang out with my boss all the time. Theres 2 coworkers that are married. Theres 2 that are best friends. We have a group of scientists and auditors that hang out at happy hour once a month. None of these are work events.

If one of you sexually harasses the other I'm sure your employer will be glad to hear it. Besides you clearly didn't read what I wrote. I said the starting position not that the position is un-rebuttable.
Otherwise, handsy Pete could get grabby with Suzanne at 5:01 pm one meter outside the office and it wouldn't be a workplace incident.

[Femininity]

Zero tolerance for what? Sex jokes?

In a mixed workplace.

[Saltysquidoon]

I don't know if there's any legal basis for you to say that, but as far as I'm concerned a party between employees isn't a "work party" unless it was organized by/at and for work. Employees are humans and they're free to do whatever they want when they're not at work. You might be right for the purposes of the lawsuit, it just doesn't make much sense to me personally.

Now sure, during a Blizzcon they are effectively on a work trip, almost certainly with hotel rooms paid by the company, so there's definitely a bit of grey area there, but I don't think that makes the company responsible for every little thing they might do. Let's say a husband and wife work on the same company and go on work trip. They stay in the same hotel. Is it wrong for them to behave like a couple inside their hotel room because they are "at work"?

Speaking to your first point you're entitled to your opinion. But I'm personally thankful no jurisdiction I've ever lived or worked in operates by those rules otherwise my example of handsy pete above would stop many people from recovering against their employer. Building on that as you correctly again pointed out, Blizzcon is a corporate event wherein the company hired the venue and paid for employee rooms it's just unambiguously a workplace event, im sorry you don't see it that way but I'm not really sure what merit there is in debating it, it just is on its face. And HR should have drilled that into the heads of employees attending three times a day for a week leading up to the event.

As for the husband and wife thing. If they were staying in a room paid for by the company both at the location for the needs of the company and something happened? I can't say for sure no precedent comes immediately to mind, my gut reaction is the company would be on the hook unless they could show it was a pattern of behaviour the couple intentionally and knowingly hid. Unless they responded appropriately and took steps required of them to ameliorate the situation to the best of their ability as soon as they were made aware.

I'm all for responsibilizing companies and protecting employees when it makes sense, but this seems like a stretch to me personally, it would be like saying if an employee runs over someone with the company car the company is somehow guilty. When they are at the blizzcon arena, they are at work, representing their company. When they go to their hotel rooms at night not so much.

This is literally the example used for how vicarious liability works you learn on day three of law school. If someone runs over someone else in a company car the first thing a company has to do is show they weren't doing company business or they're immediately and irrevocably sunk.

[Eapoe]

We have no way of knowing what they knew. It's kinda pointless to dwell on that point.

That’s been my point all along. We don’t know, but to blatantly say this person did, this person didn’t, is just speculation and should be talked about that way.

[ellieg]

In the post you quoted I said he'll be fine, what are you on about I was just pointing out why he's copping flak.

But seeing how you're accusing me of being in a cancel mob maybe you were just "confused". Are we to expect some more mask slippage in a future post?

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If one of you sexually harasses the other I'm sure your employer will be glad to hear it. Besides you clearly didn't read what I wrote. I said the starting position not that the position is un-rebuttable.
Otherwise, handsy Pete could get grabby with Suzanne at 5:01 pm one meter outside the office and it wouldn't be a workplace incident.

And im saying you're full of shit for believing that is the starting position.

[Ezzet]

In the post you quoted I said he'll be fine, what are you on about I was just pointing out why he's copping flak.

But seeing how you're accusing me of being in a cancel mob maybe you were just "confused". Are we to expect some more mask slippage in a future post?

You said he admitted he knew about it when in his own words he is saying he didn't. You are going 2 parts with this, you say hes fine but at the same time saying he knew. Decide dude.

[Saltysquidoon]

And im saying you're full of shit for believing that is the starting position.

Ok, go sexually harass your boss next time you see them and watch your employer take no action because the incident happened outside of work.

Also, your riverboat story is wrong on its face, if something had happened at the after-party between employees and the employer had been made aware of it they would be responsible for investigating and taking the appropriate action/reporting the appropriate people to cover its ass.
Like I said 'work' doesn't end for employees in harassment matters one minute after knock-off time one foot from the doorway. What do you think an employee can't make a harassment case if the harassment occurs over text message or after hours?

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You said he admitted he knew about it when in his own words he is saying he didn't. You are going 2 parts with this, you say hes fine but at the same time saying he knew. Decide dude.

I said he was present at the party, which he unambiguously was. I'm only explaining the backlash to you, do you think I'm the riot employees giving him shit? What are you even talking about?

[ellieg]

Ok, go sexually harass your boss next time you see them and watch your employer take no action because the incident happened outside of work.

Also, your riverboat story is wrong on its face, if something had happened at the after-party between employees and the employer had been made aware of it they would be responsible for investigating and taking the appropriate action/reporting the appropriate people to cover its ass.
Like I said 'work' doesn't end for employees in harassment matters one minute after knock-off time one foot from the doorway. What do you think an employee can't make a harassment case if the harassment occurs over text message or after hours?

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I said he was present at the party, which he unambiguously was. I'm only explaining the backlash to you, do you think I'm the riot employees giving him shit? What are you even talking about?

I'm not talking abt sexual assault. Im talking about your presumption that "ANY" time 2 or more coworkers are together outside of work that its first considered a work event until proven not to be. Thats just an absolutely ridiculous idea lol.

Your job is free to investigate it however they feel free.

[qwerty123456]

And you’re saying that people in Blizzard had absolutely no way of knowing? Cosby had public accusations in 2004 and 2006. Just because it wasn’t mainstream media at the time doesn’t mean it had no coverage at all. Hell, I’m pretty sure I heard about it back then. There were rumors and dark humor jokes back as far as the 90’s being told about him. It was just never mainstream until 2014 because nothing ever stuck and no one could believe Cosby could be guilty of such a thing.

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That would happen to be the million dollar question.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_C..._assault_cases

The only reason it became mainstream was because Hannibal Burress told the joke in Cosby's hometown and people didn't like it so he told them to google it. He had been doing the bit for 6 months and people just thought it was joke. Every source on the Wikipedia pre 2014 is about him being extorted by a possible daughter he had while having an affair. And two articles in Philidelphia magazines/newspapers are about allegations. Unless you are from Philidelphia or a comedian Imma have to call bullshit on you knowing back then. Fuck even the Philidephians that went to Burresses show didn't know about the allegations until he had em google it and they are from the town where the Newpaper/Magazine was published.

If it was so mainstream they never would have took a public picture of it. And you can sure as shit would have had someone call them out on it and Blizzard would have dealt with it then.

[Noxx79]

Well duh? The Michael Jackson accusations were known by everyone. The Bill Cosby accusations were mere rumors heard only by few.

Nope. It was an open secret.

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But all it takes is also a little bit of common sense to realize that all this fuss about the cosby suite doesn't make sense. And all it takes is to take the extreme into consideration. Even if we assume that they knew about cosby at that time and decided to name the suite after him as an intentional rape joke, why on earth would they PUBLICLY post chats from it and openly tweet the name?? It makes 0 sense. These people have a better idea of PR than most of us and this would be blatant PR suicide.
This is not a downplay on any of the victims or their experiences and i strongly believe justice should be served on the likes of Afrasiabi.
But the cosby suite is starting to seem like it's been taken completely out of context.

“Why would people who don’t fear retaliation do stuff that may be retaliated against?” You’re sooooooo close to getting it.

[Mehrunes]

Blizzard is a work function for blizzard staff, that's not a point of contention. "It's not a serious event your honour" would fly like a lead balloon. Beyond that, if an employee gets handsy with another employee it's a workplace incident regardless of venue.

BlizzCon isn't a 24 hour a day event. The time after it's done for a day is a nothing function for Blizzard staff. It's their time off. As for the incident about the employee getting groped in that particular event, that goes beyond the scope of what I actually addressed. You're moving the goalposts.

Further to that when the discussion is being had with and about now known, fired by blizzard for being one, sex pest alex afrasiabi seeking to have sex with women we can use the power of hindsight to see what was happening here (at least for one party)

Given what was being discussed, this is not how hindsight works. Afrasiabi being a creep doesn't automatically mean that what was being discussed in that group chat was people specifically gathering women to make them drunk to make it easier for Afrasiabi to pray on them.

Mask off in the first post? Bold strategy. We'll see if defending the pervasive culture of unequal restitution and harassment of women and minorities because the corporation in question made good video games pays off long term.

What mask? I was explicitly mocking the fact that just one post earlier you pulled the same BS about what was being said in that group chat out of the nether and preemptively shielded your made up nonsense with some railing about muh MRAs buzzword. I.e., you know, how you were being dishonest. Me pointing that out does not magically turn me into your boogeyman version of MRAs.

And given how explicit I was about what I was doing - to the point I used your own wording verbatim - this is just a sad attempt at deflection and you're just engaging in even more dishonesty here (perhaps because on some level even you realize that you're blatantly twisting that chat). Sorry, but that's not going to work on me.

Likewise, miss me with your weak-ass projection about defending pervasive culture of unequal restitution and harassment of women and minorities. Calling you out on your misrepresentation of a particular event does not constitute defense of Blizzard as a whole, its culture or a dismissal of the lawsuit against the company and the allegations its based on.

I know it's convenient to your mental gymnastics to portray anyone calling your attempts at twisting a specific event (which, for the record, is pointless as all hell, because there's already plenty of actual material and you engaging in it regardless just shows how you're just aiming to fulfill some kind of quota of empty woke posturing) as some evil MRA right winger, but you could do your research about who you're trying to portray and avoid yourself a potential case of getting an egg on your face, as you just tried to pull that off with a progressive lifetime social democrat.

What makes this even funnier is that it's you lot are actually going full horseshoe theory here and getting close to the puritan part of the right wing with your "ermahgerd, those insatiable fiends talked about fornication with women outside the bonds of marriage".

As a bonus even the "good games" of your projection is a misfire, because the last Blizzard games that I actually enjoyed were Reaper of Souls and MoP and right now I'm just casually playing because of my friends (and, in case of WoW, partially as a guilty pleasure to see how shit the story can get).

[Kolvarg]

This is literally the example used for how vicarious liability works you learn on day three of law school. If someone runs over someone else in a company car the first thing a company has to do is show they weren't doing company business or they're immediately and irrevocably sunk.

Sure, I understand that. My comparison was precisely thinking of a situation where someone is using something paid by the company for their own use, the only implication being "it was paid for by the company".

Of course Blizzcon is a corporate event, but the employees using a hotel room is not blizzcon. For all intents and purposes it's like any other company trip while employees might have to stay at a hotel to visit a client or whatever else.

Like I've said I'm not arguing whether or not it might actually be used in a courtroom, it just doesn't make sense to me how in any human sense of morality the employer might be responsible over somethin imoral or illegal the employee does in a hotel room simply because it was paid for by the employer.

[Saltysquidoon]

BlizzCon isn't a 24 hour a day event. The time after it's done for a day is a nothing function for Blizzard staff. It's their time off. As for the incident about the employee getting groped in that particular event, that goes beyond the scope of what I actually addressed. You're moving the goalposts.

This is legally incorrect, so you're off to a flying start. Blizzard's duty of care is going to extend to event held by employees featuring other employees in and around the venue as none of these employee-on-employee interactions would have happened but for blizzcon. This is why HR representatives should have been shutting this shit down, not attending it.

Secondly, no, this is a thread about the happenings in the cosby suite, you don't get to pull this "I wasn't talking about the happenings on the whole, just this one infantismally specific point (that just so happens to suit my goal of sucking airtime away from the greater issue) tee hee hee" gotcha man shit. Either own feeling the need to comment on a hyper-specific point that just 'happens' to defend a sex pest or better yet maybe do some critical analysis about why you feel that way.
If you have some sort of personal issue with me, just block me I don't mind, I won't be offended. What does offend me are the pages and pages of people who feel the need to comment in defense of a sex pest and then when called out on it like to wriggle around the hook like an eel instead of at least owning their opinion

Given what was being discussed, this is not how hindsight works. Afrasiabi being a creep doesn't automatically mean that what was being discussed in that group chat was people specifically gathering women to make them drunk to make it easier for Afrasiabi to pray on them.

Not necessarily, then again as you ilk are so fond of pointing out we don't have alll the facts it might have just been Mr sex pest it might be worse. But it does make it infinitely more likely that it does for him. Again which is the point of the thread and in fact the point of my post, if you're in these chats with people making these 'jokes' it behooves one to ensure they're 'jokes' lest you end up with very uncomfortable egg on your face.

What mask? I was explicitly mocking the fact that just one post earlier you pulled the same BS about what was being said in that group chat out of the nether and preemptively shielded your made up nonsense with some railing about muh MRAs buzzword. I.e., you know, how you were being dishonest. Me pointing that out does not magically turn me into your boogeyman version of MRAs.

And given how explicit I was about what I was doing - to the point I used your own wording verbatim - this is just a sad attempt at deflection and you're just engaging in even more dishonesty here (perhaps because on some level even you realize that you're blatantly twisting that chat). Sorry, but that's not going to work on me.

Likewise, miss me with your weak-ass projection about defending pervasive culture of unequal restitution and harassment of women and minorities. Calling you out on your misrepresentation of a particular event does not constitute defense of Blizzard as a whole, its culture or a dismissal of the lawsuit against the company and the allegations its based on.

I know it's convenient to your mental gymnastics to portray anyone calling your attempts at twisting a specific event (which, for the record, is pointless as all hell, because there's already plenty of actual material and you engaging in it regardless just shows how you're just aiming to fulfill some kind of quota of empty woke posturing) as some evil MRA right winger, but you could do your research about who you're trying to portray and avoid yourself a potential case of getting an egg on your face, as you just tried to pull that off with a progressive lifetime social democrat.

Oh, look at this, some prolix copium doing exactly what I just said you would in my previous paragraph. Unlike what you seem to believe people aren't idiots they can read between the lines, how about you miss me with your edgy contrarian 'If I never take a position, just attack perceived weak arguments no one can ever work out what I really think" stratagem. So how about you toddle off and go back to talking about the goddamn gender pay gap in 2021.

Like I said mask off.

As a bonus even the "good games" of your projection is a misfire, because the last Blizzard games that I actually enjoyed were Reaper of Souls and MoP and right now I'm just casually playing because of my friends (and, in case of WoW, partially as a guilty pleasure to see how shit the story can get).

That was just me giving you the benefit of the doubt that you were acting out of some misplaced faith that blizzard might produce a quality product in the future. Thanks for disabusing me of that notion.

[The Oblivion]

Nope. It was an open secret.

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“Why would people who don’t fear retaliation do stuff that may be retaliated against?” You’re sooooooo close to getting it.

nope most people had no idea about bill cosby until 2014

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This is legally incorrect, so you're off to a flying start. Blizzard's duty of care is going to extend to event held by employees featuring other employees in and around the venue as none of these employee-on-employee interactions would have happened but for blizzcon. This is why HR representatives should have been shutting this shit down, not attending it.

this is completely false in any and all legal sense. you are just making shit up.

[Saltysquidoon]

this is completely false in any and all legal sense. you are just making shit up.

Sexual harassment is by no means confined to the workplace. Harassment by coworkers can occur off premises, at social functions or in the home for example. Not all interaction between workers happens within the confines of the office building, and as a result not all harassment cases begin with an on-site incident. Sexual harassment that occurs beyond the workplace is equally frowned upon and legally actionable. Location of an incident does not preclude the victim from (1) informing his or her employer about the harassment; and (2) taking the necessary steps to punish the accountable party(s). Harassment by coworkers, supervisors and others in the workplace should not be tolerated, no matter where it occurred. If you were sexually harassed outside of the workplace, you can still take action against the person who harassed you.
Wow one whole second in google.

I was actually going to link a lexis practice note but you sure as shit don't have a subscription to it.

EDIT
Here's one referencing calfornia law if you have an issue with the feds

[zorkuus]

Sexual harassment is by no means confined to the workplace. Harassment by coworkers can occur off premises, at social functions or in the home for example. Not all interaction between workers happens within the confines of the office building, and as a result not all harassment cases begin with an on-site incident. Sexual harassment that occurs beyond the workplace is equally frowned upon and legally actionable. Location of an incident does not preclude the victim from (1) informing his or her employer about the harassment; and (2) taking the necessary steps to punish the accountable party(s). Harassment by coworkers, supervisors and others in the workplace should not be tolerated, no matter where it occurred. If you were sexually harassed outside of the workplace, you can still take action against the person who harassed you.

That pertains to sexual harassment, yes. What people seem to be talking about is that an employer isn't legally bound to watch over their employees like little children outside working hours. They can do whatever they want (aslong as laws aren't broken). Embarrassement to the company due to bad employee behavior is ofcourse another thing, and the company deals with it as they see fit, but it's not a legal matter.

[Venziir]

https://www.reddit.com/r/Games/comme...tm_name=iossmf Ah, yet another little gem.... Jfc.