Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Dezerte]

I'm pretty sure daycare is considered infrastructure (according to wikipedia definition). It provides a service that allows parents to work.

[Kellhound]

Mark Kelly ran on a progressive platform and won his election. Paula Swearingen ran on a progressive platform in WV and lost. One state is not like the other. Manchin is very easy to understand. Sinema is being a meathead for no apparent reason.

He won by a small margin riding on the backlash of Trump during a special election. The telling point will be next year when he is up for reelection. Biden only won by 0.3% in the state.

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. . . And?

Did you have a point? It's still peanuts.



Again, and?

My point was you were fearmongering about entirely normal and defensible infrastructure spending, by trying to present it as "scary big number!", absent the context for said number.

I never fearmongered anything. As usual you are taking anything less that unbridled enthusiasm for something as absolute disagreement. I have nothing against the bipartisan deal. I have nothing against Biden's actual infrastructure spending proposals.

[Zan15]

Utilities are infrastructure, transportation ins infrastructure, daycare is not. If you want to increase non infrastructure spending, be honest and call it what it is and let it stand on its own.

as i said, boomer definitions stuck in the 1950's ....when women were "daycare".

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https://www.latimes.com/projects/how.../nancy-pelosi/


Hmm I wonder why she didn't give a shit letting the eviction moratorium expire

interesting, do you have information that they are owed a lot of money? Or have a lot of evictions planned?

my sister in law owns 7 properties and isn't owed a dime.

[Kellhound]

You mean there’s more infrastructure in urban areas than in the middle of no where?!? Do go on! /s

Nice way to take a quote out of context. If the issue is how spread out the US is, why is it the urban areas are in worse shape?

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as i said, boomer definitions stuck in the 1950's ....when women were "daycare".

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interesting, do you have information that they are owed a lot of money? Or have a lot of evictions planned?

my sister in law owns 7 properties and isn't owed a dime.

By your thinking, everything is infrastructure, thus it has no important meaning.

[Kellhound]

I'm pretty sure daycare is considered infrastructure (according to wikipedia definition). It provides a service that allows parents to work.

"Infrastructure is the set of fundamental facilities and systems that support the sustainable functionality of households and firms. Serving a country, city, or other area,[1] including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.[2] Infrastructure is composed of public and private physical structures such as roads, railways, bridges, tunnels, water supply, sewers, electrical grids, and telecommunications (including Internet connectivity and broadband access). In general, infrastructure has been defined as "the physical components of interrelated systems providing commodities and services essential to enable, sustain, or enhance societal living conditions" and maintain the surrounding environment." - Wikipedia

So, no, Wikipedia does not consider daycare infrastructure.

[Kellhound]

One would assume because those areas are far more populated and so things gets far more use than the middle of nowhere?

Or, the issue is NOT because of the spread out nature of the US.....

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They aren’t. All of our infrastructure is crumbling. They just have more of it due to a higher concentration of people.

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We don’t keep shit in working order ANYWHERE in the US. It’s been literal decades since the federal government invested properly in infrastructure. As per the Senators who finally decided to do the minimum.

Actually, as a percentage of infrastructure, urban areas are generally suffering more decline than rural areas. For instance, urban areas have over twice the percentage of poor roads as rural areas do.

Infrastructure around here works just fine. Roads are maintained, ports are expanding, rail is superb, electricity works, water works, sewer works (unless clogged by people flushing things they shouldn't).

[Zan15]

By your thinking, everything is infrastructure, thus it has no important meaning.

Nope. Not even close.

The republicans just twisted what infrastructure meant for political reasons and you jumped on the bandwagon


Also even if we went off 1950 boomer definitions, there was no reason to be against 90% of what was in that bill regardless of the name.


Even trump classified childcare as critical infrastructure and their workers part of the infrastructure

https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/f...nal3_508_0.pdf

Workers providing dependent care services, including childcare, eldercare, and other service providers necessary to maintain a comprehensive, supportive environment for individuals and caregivers needing these services.




I guess we can just wait till republicans take over and they will give another trillion in tax breaks to the rich and corporations who i am totally sure will THIS TIME spend some of that money on childcare benefits for their workers. you know since most of that last trillion or so trickled down to the workers like they said it would

[Kellhound]

Should just shift some cash from the military in the next budget and have it all go to infrastructure. The military will still do OK.

The military is suffering the same lack of investment issue actually.

[uuuhname]

The military is suffering the same lack of investment issue actually.

good, let it wither and die.

[Zan15]

"Infrastructure is the set of fundamental facilities and systems that support the sustainable functionality of households and firms. Serving a country, city, or other area,[1] including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.[2] Infrastructure is composed of public and private physical structures such as roads, railways, bridges, tunnels, water supply, sewers, electrical grids, and telecommunications (including Internet connectivity and broadband access). In general, infrastructure has been defined as "the physical components of interrelated systems providing commodities and services essential to enable, sustain, or enhance societal living conditions" and maintain the surrounding environment." - Wikipedia

So, no, Wikipedia does not consider daycare infrastructure.

umm so daycare does not support the "sustainable functionality of households"??

You know daycare is one of the biggest reasons why people are not returning to work right? Its also one of the biggest reason why people CAN go to work.


services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.... Yah take away daycare and see what happens.



In general, infrastructure has been defined as "the physical components of interrelated systems providing commodities and services essential to enable, sustain, or enhance societal living conditions" and maintain the surrounding environment."


daycare isn't a service "essential to enable, sustain, or enhance societal living conditions" "????


Have you ever had kids and a two working parent household?

[Dezerte]

"Infrastructure is the set of fundamental facilities and systems that support the sustainable functionality of households and firms. Serving a country, city, or other area,[1] including the services and facilities necessary for its economy to function.[2] Infrastructure is composed of public and private physical structures such as roads, railways, bridges, tunnels, water supply, sewers, electrical grids, and telecommunications (including Internet connectivity and broadband access). In general, infrastructure has been defined as "the physical components of interrelated systems providing commodities and services essential to enable, sustain, or enhance societal living conditions" and maintain the surrounding environment." - Wikipedia

So, no, Wikipedia does not consider daycare infrastructure.

It provides a service that enables, sustains or enhances societal living conditions (i.e. being able to work and provide for yourself and your family). Sounds like it would fit to me.

[Zan15]

The military is suffering the same lack of investment issue actually.

based on that then every other country in the world must basically have wrecks of military organizations that could not even wage war, yet alone any kind of conflict since they spend but a fraction of $ vs the US.

If spending 1.4 trillion a year is suffering then what is a 50-100 billion on daycare infrastructure going to harm

[Kellhound]

Nope. Not even close.

The republicans just twisted what infrastructure meant for political reasons and you jumped on the bandwagon


Also even if we went off 1950 boomer definitions, there was no reason to be against 90% of what was in that bill regardless of the name.


Even trump classified childcare as critical infrastructure and their workers part of the infrastructure

https://www.cisa.gov/sites/default/f...nal3_508_0.pdf

Workers providing dependent care services, including childcare, eldercare, and other service providers necessary to maintain a comprehensive, supportive environment for individuals and caregivers needing these services.




I guess we can just wait till republicans take over and they will give another trillion in tax breaks to the rich and corporations who i am totally sure will THIS TIME spend some of that money on childcare benefits for their workers. you know since most of that last trillion or so trickled down to the workers like they said it would

"What Is Infrastructure?
Infrastructure is the general term for the basic physical systems of a business, region, or nation. Examples of infrastructure include transportation systems, communication networks, sewage, water, and electric systems. These systems tend to be capital intensive and high-cost investments, and are vital to a country's economic development and prosperity." - Investopedia.

"Definition of infrastructure
1: the system of public works of a country, state, or region" - Merriam-Webster

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based on that then every other country in the world must basically have wrecks of military organizations that could not even wage war, yet alone any kind of conflict since they spend but a fraction of $ vs the US.

If spending 1.4 trillion a year is suffering then what is a 50-100 billion on daycare infrastructure going to harm

Actually, a lot of NATO militaries have significant equipment issues.

Daycare is a social program, not infrastructure.

[uuuhname]

"What Is Infrastructure?
Infrastructure is the general term for the basic physical systems of a business, region, or nation. Examples of infrastructure include transportation systems, communication networks, sewage, water, and electric systems. These systems tend to be capital intensive and high-cost investments, and are vital to a country's economic development and prosperity." - Investopedia.

"Definition of infrastructure
1: the system of public works of a country, state, or region" - Merriam-Webster

Jesus Christ dude maybe instead of nit picking about how it's not technically infrastructure you actually argue why you don't think parents should be able to work without leaving their kids in an empty house.

[Kellhound]

It provides a service that enables, sustains or enhances societal living conditions (i.e. being able to work and provide for yourself and your family). Sounds like it would fit to me.

PHYSICAL!!! Daycare isnt physical.

[starlord]

government funded daycare is already a thing for the military.

[Zan15]

"What Is Infrastructure?
Infrastructure is the general term for the basic physical systems of a business, region, or nation. Examples of infrastructure include transportation systems, communication networks, sewage, water, and electric systems. These systems tend to be capital intensive and high-cost investments, and are vital to a country's economic development and prosperity." - Investopedia.

"Definition of infrastructure
1: the system of public works of a country, state, or region" - Merriam-Webster

Infrastructure is the general term for the basic physical systems of a business, region, or nation

Sure seems like it still fits.


"vital to a country's economic development and prosperity."

Still fits.


"Infrastructure is the general term for the basic physical systems of a business, region, or nation"

still fits

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PHYSICAL!!! Daycare isnt physical.

LOL... yah they watch those kids in the woods and in parking lots. wait, wouldn't the parking lot be a physical structure....never mind that scratch that.


The original infrastructure plan was to build daycare facilities and actually did not address funding for workers and benefits.

[Zan15]

government funded daycare is already a thing for the military.

not to mention congress used 15 million dollars in taxpayer money to build a new daycare for their workers and members. Its subsidized by taxpayer to cost a fraction of what private daycare cost in the area.

All so that it would keep workers working in congress.


imagine that.

[TEHPALLYTANK]

PHYSICAL!!! Daycare isnt physical.

You heard it here, apparently a physical location in which your child is cared for isn't a physical location. So what sort of metaphysical existence is daycare then?

[Dezerte]

PHYSICAL!!! Daycare isnt physical.

Read further on the Wikipedia where it mentions hard and soft infrastructure. A daycare is also a physical location with physical facilities.

You also quoted a dictionary mentioning public works, whose definition in turn would also include services like daycare.

Public works are a broad category of infrastructure projects, financed and constructed by the government, for recreational, employment, and health and safety uses in the greater community.

A daycare would satisfy all four of those.