What's so good about FFXIV?

[crusadernero]

That's probably never going to happen. No game is ever going to be WoW but not WoW, you either accept that other games do things differently or stick with the one you have.

Oh I know it wont happen for many reasons. Thats also why I play wow ALOT less now than I used to. I try out MMORPGs now and then, but nothing really captures me. Luckily theres enough games out there to be played.

[Ringthane]

Nothing I could see.

[Syferite]

Why is everyone migrating to this game now? what makes it so good?

FF14's story content and class fantasy is amazing, but it's the kind of game that I can only play for a month or two before I get bored. So I tend to rotate around with ESO/RS3 and other co-op games.

Tbh I think that anyone who thinks that they should "migrate" to another game is in for a rude awakening because whatever burn out or boredom you felt with WoW will happen again. The fact is that once demand > supply, people start getting agitated and I hope that with this entire WoW issue, more people start to realize that it's healthy to try out different gaming experiences.

[Pendragon]

Said like someone who hasn't played the game. Very nice.

Actually played the game. Nice try though <3

[CalamityHeart]

So if I go now and download The Elder Scrolls Online or Guild Wars 2 and I level up a character to like level 20 or something (I'm not sure what the max level is in those games, but we are talking about like 25% of the max level.) I can argue with people who played it for years and they do the hardest available content in the game.
But will they listen to me and understand me?
Or they are most likely just ignore me because I haven't even touched the game?

If you go now and download a game, play that game for a little bit, and decide that you don't like the core gameplay? Yeah, you can go ahead and say that you don't like the gameplay and explain why.

If your reasoning for disliking the gameplay is sound and understandable, as in, maybe the core gameplay's a bit slow and less responsive than some other similar games you've played? Ideally, yeah, they would understand you. They might disagree, given that they like the game and you don't, but the straw I'm using to help build this man comes from a world of optimism, where people can still understand each other in spite of disagreements.

If they were to say that you hadn't touched the game, though, then... that would be shitty and dishonest, because you had touched the game. You downloaded it, played it for a little while, decided you didn't like it, and said why.

Sorry, where are we going with this?

To come into a type of game, like an MMO, that is expected to be playing for hundreds of hours and complain that the classes didn't feel fully developed at a level that takes roughly 3 hours to get to is simply unreasonable.

Let me provide a comparison. Let's say someone declares they want to get into hiking, so they go on one 3 hour hike and then decide hiking isn't for them. Would we say they really made a good effort to get into hiking? Probably not. Do you know what we certainly wouldn't say? Oh, well after your 3 hour hike you are now justified in going on hiking forums and pissing and moaning about how much hiking sucks.

I mean, I appreciate the comparison. On the surface, it's a reasonable one, but something about it just doesn't click with me. To start, I don't think that's how the conversation started. It was never about classes being fully developed at early levels, that would be a less reasonable expectation. From what I read, it was about the game's combat feeling slow and clunky, something I did find to be a more reasonable take. Other people made it about having a small kit in the early game, when that wasn't the point being made, and it spiraled from there.

If I could try to refine your comparison without changing it, I'd say it's more like someone who's already been hiking on one trail decided to give another notable one a try. The new trail is more muddy and windy and tiresome to navigate than their usual trail, which is fine for some people, but not this particular hiker. They give up and turn back in frustration, deciding that getting to the end of the trail, no matter how picturesque the vista that awaits them, isn't worth the pitfalls and cumbersomeness of the early leg of the trail.

I don't know shit about hiking, so I wouldn't be surprised if that's a silly analogy, but that's more along the lines of how I read the conversation. Maybe I read it wrong or too deeply. I dunno.

Yeah, but that's not what the poster in question is doing. You are providing a reasoned, nuanced comparison based on a substantive level of personal experience. He is not.

Fair enough. I think the point I was trying to get to with my statement was that the problems that people could reasonably have in the early game don't really disappear later on. If your frustration with the game stems from how the GCD works, then that frustration will continue to needle you all the way to endgame, because how the GCD works will continuously trip you up all the while. Which comes back around to the point that an argument made about the early game isn't necessarily non-substantive. Maybe that could've been clearer from me.

It's not about anything being a personal dealbreaker. It's about where someone gets the authority to come on forums and start whining.

I'm confused. Why is it about that again? Did I miss a post somewhere, because I didn't think that the poster in question made it about that, and trying to make it about that just feels like an easy way to spiral even more off-topic.

[Wrecktangle]

Yeah I just don't agree. Yes their instances but they are large areas that you explore and fight mobs in.

Hell by your definition there are no new zones in Shadowlands because you can't just "go to" them.

Mind you I have no care about "adding new zones" as a function of something that brings me joy in either game, but I do have to agree with Bovine here. Bozja/Eureka aren't quite what I would call zones, simply because they really are duties and come with all the apparent restrictions that does whereas Bovines example of Timeless Isle is easily a better fit for a new zone, because it isn't hamstrung by additional criteria. Shadowlands suffers from problems you've already noted so I certainly won't cite that as any positive reference because it doesn't exist IMO.

That said, I'm really not sure why this was even an argument to begin with, is adding new zones throughout an expansion a positive feature? I'd say new content (which both games certainly do) would be, but why is zones important (and thus defining what constitutes one?). I may be missing something.

Bahaha thats like playing combat rogue at lvl 20 and bitching that you can only spam sinister strike. Your big boy rotations start to shape at 40. Also the the mechanics in fights start to stack up and you would drop your combos constantly because the amount of movement you have to do not to die

Who drops their combos in FF14 lol? I certainly don't. You either have more than enough time to weave in and out and maintain uptime, or a boss jump forces you to lose it, and which case it's not a play issue.7

https://youtu.be/kwYKUx8PWgo?t=63
Good luck playing that with a 1 second GCD. It would be like 200 APM, literally unplayable.

Firstly, NIN has a 2.0x GCD in most cases, so going from 2s to 1s (which is only the GCD during Hero/Lust) would simply double your CPM (APM is a stupid measurement in this context), putting it on par with the fastest classes in WoW. However, the realistic GCD is 1.5s, in which case NIN would simply line up with most of the WoW classes CPM, hardly unplayable.

What I've noticed is that these days in WoW once the raid in a given tier is cleared (at whatever difficulty a given guild is up to) people start not bothering pretty much right away. Back a few expansions people kept turning up and were willing to farm more, because getting a complete tier set was a goal in itself, as was getting that last piece for your BiS, etc. These days gear is just ilevel, and it's just another grind, another system, with nothing special to it, so once the raid is cleared the raiders just don't bother any more.

This has been my experience as well. Most of us don't stick around. Hell I haven't even recleared most of the raids once I clear. That's how over it I am. Granted I do the same thing in FF14 for the most part too. I help everyone get their mounts/weapons and then take a break.

Seriously, anybody complaining about the 2-2.4s GCD (depends on job), most likely hasn't leveled up enough to even see a fully realized rotation.

I mean, I've played since ARR 2.0 and have consistent orange logs and I complain about the GCD all the time. I firmly believe there's room for faster gameplay, OR at the VERY least way more oGCDs added per job (some are admittedly in much better shape here than others).

So when someone from WoW says that they can't get into FFXIV because the combat is a slow and unresponsive slogfest? I get it. I like the gameplay anyway, personally, but I absolutely get where they're coming from. And I feel like anyone who's played both games should get it too, on some level or another. FFXIV is slower, and that's a perfectly valid dealbreaker.

Snipped your post to save space, but I'm genuinely not sure I could have said it better myself. Kudos to see another rational human in here.

So if I go now and download The Elder Scrolls Online or Guild Wars 2 and I level up a character to like level 20 or something (I'm not sure what the max level is in those games, but we are talking about like 25% of the max level.) I can argue with people who played it for years and they do the hardest available content in the game.
But will they listen to me and understand me?
Or they are most likely just ignore me because I haven't even touched the game?

You should never dismiss someone's point because of their experience. That's an incredibly dangerous take. Should you accept it as gospel? No. Evaluate it and ask questions to try and stimulate a meaningful conversation. Not everyone is capable of this, but it's a far healthier alternative than just dismissing someone outright.

It's not some controversal element, FF14 doesn't put its best foot forward. Every rationally minded veteran knows this, thats why we say WE KNOW, and we PROMISE it gets better, because it does, but that doesn't absolve the game of being pretty jarring in the beginning.

To come into a type of game, like an MMO, that is expected to be playing for hundreds of hours and complain that the classes didn't feel fully developed at a level that takes roughly 3 hours to get to is simply unreasonable.

It takes 3 hours to get to level 30? That wasn't my experience AT ALL way back when I started as a new player. Can anyone else share some insight on this piece. Looks like typical Ninespine hyperbole, but maybe he's counting a preferred server and already knowing how to play the game?

[Lane]

I didn't go to the official forums to say how bad the trial edition is because I only had 2 spells + auto attack and one buff.

Leveling is so fast in WoW now I think people forget how long it takes to get a moderately fleshed out toolkit. There were a couple of classes I leveled in SL that I was well into my 30s (past trial account limits) before I had even a basic rotation. Classic is exponentially worse. Hunters spend the first 10 levels without a bow or a pet and spamming Raptor Strike with a dagger. Feral druids don't get cat form until 20 and even then you won't get most of your cat abilities until your mid-30s. I remember not being in a good place on paladin until post 50 even in BC.

ARR does need to do a better job at spreading out abilities though, particularly certain jobs. I've mained a dragoon, didn't get an AoE until 40 and now at 50 I've had an ability dump I'm trying to get used to since up to this point I've had a 5 button rotation (not including cooldowns). Summoner felt better between DoTs, pet abilities, and spell casts.

[Absintheminded]

quote

So I get that in reality WoW is generally a faster game, but it's not that far off and in some cases slower.

FFXIV
https://imgur.com/jtau1fQ

WoW
https://www.simulationcraft.org/reports/T26_Raid.html

Increasing Ninja's APM by 50% as you suggest would line it up with WoW's fastest class/spec. Generally speaking FFXIV jobs exists in the bottom 25-50% of WoW's specs. My argument was that, while you could dislike the speed, it's objectively close to WoW's combat speed.

[Zafire]

I liked FFXIV more than WoW because the story was forced on you, and it was actually quite good. Raiding in FFXIV is just bosses in dungeon rooms, so you don't have to deal with trash. I found them challenging, personally. It encourages playing with new people, as your reward is increased for doing so. It's easier to get into progression raids in FFXIV than it is in WoW, and if you truly want to raid you can (although it's stressful without a static).

I feel the crafting and gathering system is superior in FFXIV, and I feel like crafting actually matters a lot.

I did enjoy leveling new classes for a time, back when the FATE system was a viable way to level. Now everyone seems to do Deep-Dungeon style content, which killed the world a good bit IMO. I also dislike FFXIVs PvP system, but WoW PvP is literally the only reason I play the game anyway.

[Pandorox]

The Free trial is very generous. I've been trying it out the passed few weeks. I'm almost lv 30. The game just feels familiar to me plus people have been very welcoming but that's probably because the sprout icon above my head. Just try it out for yourself. The free trial goes up to 60 i believe

[Xilurm]

Actually played the game. Nice try though <3

Then that's even worse. Because you're simply just wrong.

Either way, you know this game is being successful when all these little trolls come out of their caves to talk about it.

[minteK917]

Lmao this forum is more and more filled with ass mad wow players.

[Paperfox]

Exactly.

Some players play games just for story, for social reasons, for whatever reason. Some players really value the simple FEEL of a game when they're playing it. There is no greater dealbreaker for those people than how the game feels to play. Browbeating them about it isn't going to change that, and only serves to feed into the appearance of the XIV community being overzealous and fanatical about the game.

If someone says that the speed or feel of the game made them not enjoy it, the best we can do is give them the - very truthful - answer that it gets better later. If that doesn't convince them, then just let them go on their way. There's no need to white knight a video game, really.

Edit: That said, when people spread outright misinformation, I'll gladly correct it of course.

So far I've gotten one job up to 20 and I'm quite enjoying it. Some quests made me laugh.

You're right on the feel of the game, and I can't see 10.0 being any different than SL is, except things will get new names.

[Echo of Soul]

Exactly.

Some players play games just for story, for social reasons, for whatever reason. Some players really value the simple FEEL of a game when they're playing it. There is no greater dealbreaker for those people than how the game feels to play. Browbeating them about it isn't going to change that, and only serves to feed into the appearance of the XIV community being overzealous and fanatical about the game.

If someone says that the speed or feel of the game made them not enjoy it, the best we can do is give them the - very truthful - answer that it gets better later. If that doesn't convince them, then just let them go on their way. There's no need to white knight a video game, really.

Edit: That said, when people spread outright misinformation, I'll gladly correct it of course.

That's very true. A lot of people play games for superficial reasons like combat or graphics. You may not agree with it but you're also not going to be able to change them.

Like if I really enjoy reading books and my friend hates them but likes looking at pictures of boobs I'm not going to convince him that reading a book is more fulfilling because for him it isn't.

People are different.

[Copey]

The Free trial is very generous. I've been trying it out the passed few weeks. I'm almost lv 30. The game just feels familiar to me plus people have been very welcoming but that's probably because the sprout icon above my head. Just try it out for yourself. The free trial goes up to 60 i believe

The community in FF14 is a night/day difference from WoW, 90% of the time. It's nowhere near as toxic nor elitist.
I've been playing off/on for the past 6 years whenever I get bored of WoW. The story-line is top notch but it is indeed long af. Worth a playthrough though.

[CasualFilth]

Freedom of choice regarding 'content' pillars. You can spend your whole day doing Gold Saucer mini-games & you won't feel that you wasted your time. This would count toward a certain progression - i.e. saving up MGP (just points) for a mount or a Triple Triad card.

As this has turned into a WoW v FFXIV thread, the obvious comparison with WoW is that you are not harassed by the game to do 'end-game' content.

[Ragedaug]

I can say that the one thing I liked about FF14 is that you don't need alts. You can level up one character through every class/job and can mix and match some abilities between the two.

If my friends stop playing WoW again, this is probably the reason I will give FF14 a try. I have had an alt of every class in WoW because you need them to play the other roles / styles. I would much prefer to be able to train one character to be able to swap into and out of the different style without needing completely different characters.

Also I heard they have player housing, which I have really enjoyed in games in the past.

[Echo of Soul]

If my friends stop playing WoW again, this is probably the reason I will give FF14 a try. I have had an alt of every class in WoW because you need them to play the other roles / styles. I would much prefer to be able to train one character to be able to swap into and out of the different style without needing completely different characters.

Also I heard they have player housing, which I have really enjoyed in games in the past.

It's quite possible to play both at the same time. I did so for years until Ions' shitty systems driven design finally drove me away from WoW permanently.

[Deneios]

If food tastes bad, do you continue to eat it hoping that it might taste better later? If a movie is bad at the first 20 minutes, do you continue for the next 60 minutes? It is the same here. Why should I slog through for hours to "get to the good parts"? How is this a good combat design?

And I already wrote how it could feel better for me.

Then that same applies to wow. Why should you lvl up the character that lower lvls feel like shit and is boring when people say that the game starts at 60?

Better analogy would be you cant ski for shit so you dont want to try to get better because that would take effort

[Garretdejiko]

Why is everyone migrating to this game now? what makes it so good?

No conduits
No Renown
No Maw intro quest
No domination system
No legendary recraft
Job identity and flavor is still important for devs, something wow doesn't have since Legion
actually good storyline
Agendaless game decisions
Being able to play instruments
Miqo'tes
Doens't take itself too serious and has comic relief characters
Gold Saucer (a far better DMF)
Heap of animated emotes (imagine only having Hammer Time since Vanilla lmao)
List could go on and on, I'd eventually enter into subjectives
Better raid experience

WoW beat FF in:
PvP
Collection system