Biden / Harris Focused Discussion

[Orange Joe]

How do you replace the Interstate?

By grinding up the old surface. replacing/repairing the bed. Placing new concrete/asphalt surface.



That was a shit example. Interstate/roads are replaced all the time.

RR's are pretty much the same. Remove track and ties. Place new bed. Place new ties/rails.

[draynay]

How do you replace the Interstate? What is your plan to replace the transcontinental railroad?

Has the knowledge been lost to time? Did Ancient Aliens build our roads and railroads?

[Kellhound]

You realize that, in this context, this just means "tear the existing structures out and rebuild them"?

That's already done on a recurring basis, just not the whole section of the Interstate at the same time.

- - - Updated - - -


If those answers are all "no" for anyone, then it demonstrates that government assistance is a policy that should exist.

It's fairly trivial to demonstrate that this would be true for someone, somewhere. Particularly as employment is not 100%. Particularly as the idea of a two-income household being the default is itself a problematic anachronism that only exists to serve capitalists. Particularly as plenty of people have bad relationships with their family. Particularly as "friends" can only provide child care if they themselves are saying "no" to all these things and need to stay home already; otherwise, those friends are working, too, and literally can't.

Oh, you mean repair the Interstates.

I am saying there are cases where it is warranted, I am not saying it is universally warranted.

- - - Updated - - -

By grinding up the old surface. replacing/repairing the bed. Placing new concrete/asphalt surface.



That was a shit example. Interstate/roads are replaced all the time.

RR's are pretty much the same. Remove track and ties. Place new bed. Place new ties/rails.

Those are repairs, not replacement of the right of way. Yes there are times the right of way is actually replaced, but that is rare. One case is on the Transcon, Southern Pacific replaced the line around the northern part of the Great Salt Lake with a timber trestle across the lake, which was later replaced with a stone/concrete causeway.

- - - Updated - - -

Has the knowledge been lost to time? Did Ancient Aliens build our roads and railroads?

Union Pacific repairs its mainline regularly, it does not replace it unless it has to or it can substantially improve its operations by incurring the massive costs of creating a new right of way. Rail, ties, ballast; those are not the main cost of a right of way.

[Orange Joe]

Those are repairs, not replacement of the right of way. Yes there are times the right of way is actually replaced, but that is rare.

No a repair would be a patch.

Where are you getting this right of way shit for replacing?

[Kellhound]

No a repair would be a patch.

Where are you getting this right of way shit for replacing?

Because a road is far more than just the asphalt. A patch is a repair to the road surface, replacing the road surface is a repair to the road. The right of way is the road in total, including things like base grading.

[kaid]

Oh, you mean repair the Interstates.

I am saying there are cases where it is warranted, I am not saying it is universally warranted.

- - - Updated - - -



Those are repairs, not replacement of the right of way. Yes there are times the right of way is actually replaced, but that is rare. One case is on the Transcon, Southern Pacific replaced the line around the northern part of the Great Salt Lake with a timber trestle across the lake, which was later replaced with a stone/concrete causeway.

- - - Updated - - -



Union Pacific repairs its mainline regularly, it does not replace it unless it has to or it can substantially improve its operations by incurring the massive costs of creating a new right of way. Rail, ties, ballast; those are not the main cost of a right of way.

That really depends. The highway "repairs" in this area replaced every single overpass/bridge on/off ramps when they were doing it to bring everything up to modern standard. You could in theory call it repairs as its redoing it in the same spot one had stood but they did massive rework of the underlying road beds to widen them off ramps competly redone so they were not the stupid clover leaf stuff fly over bridges/overpasses built after tearing out existing interchanges. A lot of the "repair" work these highways need is not just slap some new concrete down a lot of them the underlying road bed needs fixing and a most of the infrastructure along it needs flat out replacing.

[Endus]

Oh, you mean repair the Interstates.

This is pointless equivocation, meant to derail the conversation.

Normal repair and maintenance often requires replacement of infrastructure. It's part of the process, not a separate thing.

I am saying there are cases where it is warranted, I am not saying it is universally warranted.

Who the hell argued that all infrastructure should be constantly replaced always forever?

Stop attacking silly-ass straw men you made up in your own head.

Those are repairs, not replacement of the right of way. Yes there are times the right of way is actually replaced, but that is rare. One case is on the Transcon, Southern Pacific replaced the line around the northern part of the Great Salt Lake with a timber trestle across the lake, which was later replaced with a stone/concrete causeway.

Again, you're equivocating over a distinction that does not exist. If you're tearing the roadway down and rebuilding it, that's replacement, even if the new roadbed is going to be put back in the same place. And yes, doing things like adjusting the grading and so on is pretty standard practice.

[Orange Joe]

By grinding up the old surface. replacing/repairing the bed. Placing new concrete/asphalt surface.



That was a shit example. Interstate/roads are replaced all the time.

RR's are pretty much the same. Remove track and ties. Place new bed. Place new ties/rails.

Because a road is far more than just the asphalt. A patch is a repair to the road surface, replacing the road surface is a repair to the road. The right of way is the road in total, including things like base grading.

This is done all the time.

[JohnBrown1917]

Can one parent stay home? Can you afford childcare? Can the parents work split shifts to ensure one is always home? Do they have family that can watch the child? Do they have friends that can watch the child? If the answer is truly no to all of those, then government assistance would likely be in order.

The answer is 'no' for a lot of people, and who has friends who can watch their kids 4-5 days a week?
You overestimate how high the average wage is.

[Draco-Onis]

How do you replace the Interstate? What is your plan to replace the transcontinental railroad?

The same way we are repairing them now but more extensively? was that a real question because anyone who has driven a car through major road repairs ought to know.

- - - Updated - - -

Has the knowledge been lost to time? Did Ancient Aliens build our roads and railroads?

If only every other modern country in the world that has done it with their infrastructure would share this magical secret.

[Fugus]

For some real context. In many cities the cost of child care for ONE child is usually right around the average monthly rent payment. Have 2 or more? Hope you enjoy paying more for child care than you do for the roof over their head at night.

I remember around here, when my step-sister used to use it, she got assistance because she has 2 children and it cost $125 per week per child for daycare. The daycare also closed about 5pm and you were charged something like $6 per MINUTE you were late to prevent those messed up parents who would rather leave the daycare with their children for hours so they could go mess around.

So, if she didn't have that aid and wasn't late picking up the children whom could only be there from about 7am to 5pm, she would still have paid roughly $1,000 a month in daycare, which was about what a 40 hour a week job would pay after taxes if not a little more. And this was about a decade ago.

[Kellhound]

That really depends. The highway "repairs" in this area replaced every single overpass/bridge on/off ramps when they were doing it to bring everything up to modern standard. You could in theory call it repairs as its redoing it in the same spot one had stood but they did massive rework of the underlying road beds to widen them off ramps competly redone so they were not the stupid clover leaf stuff fly over bridges/overpasses built after tearing out existing interchanges. A lot of the "repair" work these highways need is not just slap some new concrete down a lot of them the underlying road bed needs fixing and a most of the infrastructure along it needs flat out replacing.

So they upgraded it.

[unfilteredJW]

Kellhound warping language to fit their shit takes.

Just another day on MMOC.

[Kellhound]

This is pointless equivocation, meant to derail the conversation.

Normal repair and maintenance often requires replacement of infrastructure. It's part of the process, not a separate thing.



Who the hell argued that all infrastructure should be constantly replaced always forever?

Stop attacking silly-ass straw men you made up in your own head.



Again, you're equivocating over a distinction that does not exist. If you're tearing the roadway down and rebuilding it, that's replacement, even if the new roadbed is going to be put back in the same place. And yes, doing things like adjusting the grading and so on is pretty standard practice.

Repair involves replacing or overhauling parts of something. Replacement involves the complete destruction of something. If I replace the engine in my car I have repaired my car by replacing the engine. If I buy a new car instead, I have replaced it. Same goes with a road. I have rarely seen a major road actually replaced these days.

Seriously Endus, try not to quote things out of context. That statement was aimed (clearly) at childcare and other government assistance.

Again, replacing parts of a road is not replacing the road.

- - - Updated - - -

This is done all the time.

I rarely see the base grade changed, the layers above it are a different story.

- - - Updated - - -

The answer is 'no' for a lot of people, and who has friends who can watch their kids 4-5 days a week?
You overestimate how high the average wage is.

As I said, if one can truly answer no to all of the questions, government assistance would likely be in order.

- - - Updated - - -

The same way we are repairing them now but more extensively? was that a real question because anyone who has driven a car through major road repairs ought to know.

- - - Updated - - -



If only every other modern country in the world that has done it with their infrastructure would share this magical secret.

Ah, so more extensive repairs. That is my point.

[Draco-Onis]

Ah, so more extensive repairs. That is my point.

So your point is replacing cost more than repair? seriously? The point of replacing is to have infrastructure that can face 2021 challenges like our increasingly hostile weather.

[Endus]

Again, replacing parts of a road is not replacing the road.

Are you seriously gonna Road of Theseus me?

[Kellhound]

For some real context. In many cities the cost of child care for ONE child is usually right around the average monthly rent payment. Have 2 or more? Hope you enjoy paying more for child care than you do for the roof over their head at night.

Perhaps if you go to a center and not to a licensed in home provider.

[Benggaul]

When your last resort is being a pedantic asshole, you've lost the argument.

[Fugus]

And evidently Manchin just said on TV that there wasn't any way he really saw him actually going around the GOP on voting rights, basically either the Republicans sign on or he doesn't let it pass when the whole reason its an issue to begin with is the Republicans are trying to destroy it for their own personal benefit at the expense the nation as a whole.

[Draco-Onis]

And evidently Manchin just said on TV that there wasn't any way he really saw him actually going around the GOP on voting rights, basically either the Republicans sign on or he doesn't let it pass when the whole reason its an issue to begin with is the Republicans are trying to destroy it for their own personal benefit at the expense the nation as a whole.

Frankly I am tired of Kim Kardashian I mean Joe Manchin and Biden's "soft" approach, the democratic party are basically handing the GOP the US government for the next 50 years if not more assuming they don't install a dictator. They have already stolen the supreme court now he is ceding the entire US government.