What's so good about FFXIV?

[ek0zu]

I was not very open minded when i firstly played FFXIV when ARR was released.

That mindset did not allow me to play it for more than a month. Back then i was too hooked to WoW and i did not give any chance in other good MMOs as well for more than the first free month. But, because of the BFA disaster i firstly brunched out of WoW, for good, for the first time by playing single player games after so many years of either playing nothing at all or only playing WoW, even if i was not nowhere near as competitive in WoW as i did in the past, this was the only game that i was playing. Considering myself a gamer and not a "WoWer" that was a disgrace.

After i finished some very good games i had for so long in my Library, i said to myself lets play the second best MMO in the market, but with a new mindset now that i will not judge the game unless i reach the maximum level and content. I quickly realized that it might be impossible for me to reach Endgame because you should play all of the expansions in their fullest until you reach shadowbringers. I am not gonna lie, the ARR was slow and i pushed myself many times to play it, but afterwards each expansion was better and better. Especially, when i reached Stormblood i was so hooked with the story that i did not care about reaching the endgame at all.

From the get go it was bad for my mindset that FFXIV does not have PvP, and aspect of the MMOs industry that i really love it, plus the fact that i was nowhere near reaching endgame, i did not brute force my playthroughs and i was only playing for a few hours per week to experience the story. I managed to reach the end of Shadowbringers's first patch 7-8 months after my "first" start. As i said, the start was slow but as i was going i enjoyed it more and more. I was completely dried out when i finished the first patch of the Shadowbringers' story and i had already started GW2 which i liked it more but this is definitely a game that i will be coming back to check new classes, new iterations, new story, etc. I am currently having an active 6 month subscription (as i do with WoW) even though i am not playing, i do it because i enjoy it.

The take away for me was that you have to give a chance to a game for a few months in order to make a final conclusion whether you like it or not, nowadays i think that it is fine for any MMO to be completely different than WoW because they simply cannot win WoW in their own "game" and they should better do their own thing, back in the day all i wanted from a new MMO was -basically- a reskinned WoW, something that i realized it is absolutely pointless and of course impossible.

[BrintoSFJ]

Then that same applies to wow. Why should you lvl up the character that lower lvls feel like shit and is boring when people say that the game starts at 60?

Better analogy would be you cant ski for shit so you dont want to try to get better because that would take effort

That is my gripe with WoW too. But the combat design on WoW has improved over the years, same can not be said for FF14. And just tapping 3-4 for button and another 5 button from time to time don't require active brain cells to accomplish.

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When I was an immature, spoiled child, I absolutely would stop eating food if it didn't taste amazing right away. This led to me being in my 20s and eating like a 10 year old. Eventually, I grew up and realized that if I made a good faith effort to work past my initial response and actually TRY to like things, more often than not I ended up liking them.

If I turned off every movie with a boring first act, I absolutely never would have watched some of the great films of all time like The Thing, Audition, Dr. Strangelove, or Vertigo.

You've inadvertently endorsed a childish attitude towards new experiences.

"New experience"? Really? The combat of FF14 dramatically and horrendously mirror the combat of vanilla WoW, an 18 years old game. And you call that "new experience"?

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You can say anything you want but not too many people going to take you seriously, you already stated that your highest level character is level 30.
I was playing WoW for 16 years, and not the starter edition, I actually did high-end content and after that I said what I think of the game.
I didn't go to the official forums to say how bad the trial edition is because I only had 2 spells + auto attack and one buff.

You keep saying how bad the combat is, but you never actually tried it. Yeah, you disliked the first 20 levels really much, okay. I hated the level 20 trial version for WoW too but I still ended up playing it for all that years.
Just accept that the game is not for you, move on.

Again, if it bores me to death one the first 20 minute, why the fuck should I do it for hours after hours? Get it through your thick skulls.

[starstationprofm]

You think trash is what makes raids interesting?

People complain that LFG teleports you to the dungeon and kills the world, surely raids being boss only with an attached tp is even worse.

Yes, I think the raid environment is hugely important. It's part of why Battle for Dazar'alor is my favorite raid ever, because you start in Atal Dazar's North entrance and end up all the way to the docks, traversing the whole city.

If raids were just boss rooms with no trash people would shit all over WoW.

[meowfurion]

Why is everyone migrating to this game now? what makes it so good?

It does everything WoW does and more? Except its pvp is utter trash.

[ihate2beapessimist]

Its new and fresh, I don't have it completely memorized.

WoW on the other hand...I could run more than half the dungeons in my sleep. Its too familiar and stale.

[Tyrick]

Again, if it bores me to death one the first 20 minute, why the fuck should I do it for hours after hours? Get it through your thick skulls.

You shouldn't.
and why the fuck you feeling the urge to let everyone know in this thread for like a week now?
Should I go to the other MMO threads and say what I don't like about that game too?
Every day?
For a week?
Is that really important for you?

[mauserr]

At least this is what you would like to see, right?

UI and combat is disgusting in this game.

[Tyrick]

Well, in fairness they only keep replying because people keep throwing stupid analogies and insults at them.

Yes, I realized that.
But when you see statements like this one below...

UI and combat is disgusting in this game.

I can't do anything but correct them, because it's just not true.

It should have say "I don't like the UI and combat in this game, I think it's disgusting."

[Wrecktangle]

So I get that in reality WoW is generally a faster game, but it's not that far off and in some cases slower.
Increasing Ninja's APM by 50% as you suggest would line it up with WoW's fastest class/spec. Generally speaking FFXIV jobs exists in the bottom 25-50% of WoW's specs. My argument was that, while you could dislike the speed, it's objectively close to WoW's combat speed.

• Is it though? Of the links you posted 87.5% of the options are faster than the fastest FF14 job. Only 5 (12.5%) of them have less CPM than NIN, with only 1 of them being melee. This is also a silly comparison because NIN is an outlier in FF14, and is already 15% faster than the next fastest class, and on average 30% faster than every other job.
• Tanks have significantly more CPM in WoW than FF14 to the point that 4/5 of them have 27% more CPM than the fastest tank in FF14. If we compare against the other 3 tanks, that gap widens further. The outlier (Blood DK), is only 14% faster than the GNB, but 40% faster than it's comparably slowest tank in FF14.
• Logs have not shown what you stated to be true. Your absolute fastest specs in FF14 are on par with the slowest specs in WoW. The majority of them appear to be 10-20% faster; which is significant when compared to anything BUT NIN.

Seems pretty far off to me, but maybe I'm misinterpreting the data somehow? Feel free to correct me.

I, uh...*coughs in "just pressed the wrong combo route twice on SAM last night during a near-wipe-panic"*

From what I hear the leveling has changed a bit, but I can't speak to "level 30 in 3 hours" and I'm not eager to test it myself.

Yubadtho? I'm messing

That's very true. A lot of people play games for superficial reasons like combat or graphics. You may not agree with it but you're also not going to be able to change them.

Why would combat be a superficial thing? I'm not even sure graphics (or by proxy art style) qualifies as superficial either. It feels as though you're trying to marginalize players who care about these things as lesser players.

[Guidance]

I left for FFXIV back during WoD but occasionally come vacation back here in WoW, here's what I like.

Endgame raiding is 8 people. This leaves more responsibility on each person and they make more demanding encounters. It's no longer just "get 25 people geared and push the win button.".

I don't personally care for the story but everyone that I talk to that *does* care says it's extremely well done. Personally I only watch the dungeon and raid cutscenes, they're very enjoyable.

Crafting matters, crafted gear acts as a bridge between tiers. This means crafters stay relevant throughout the expansion...add on that crafting is fleshed out and you can seriously play a crafter/gatherer without touching a combat class except to do story quests.

Gold Saucer, chocobo racing and breeding is fun for me, I love doing it. I also enjoy triple triad and the mini games.

Most importantly, FFXIV doesn't include *MUST DO* systems. Everything is purely optional, a quote I heard puts it best. Wow made me feel like I was just wasting time, FFXIV makes me want to waste my time.

Everything you said makes sense, except the part about gathering 25 people and hitting the win button,

in wow normal raid is basically Flex that was renamed to make people feel better, heroic was normal in the old days and mythic was Heroic, that is, not even the guilds who fight for RWF can do the mythic bosses in the ease as you described, imagine the normal player? if mythic + dugeons 15 is difficult for many people imagine the rest

everyone says that the big failure of other mmorpg is the end game that is weak despite all efforts and even the pvp end game that in wow seems to be left aside and has no team working on it, is said to be better than in other games

wow was a King that wasnot dethroned, he committed suicide

Because its not wow and people are looking for new things to try

^ this
despite all the problems wow has, the game is old, and as such there are things you won't accept in it, but might accept in a newer game you are starting
I played genshim impact and shadow of mordor and some things that annoy me in wow for some reason are fun in the other two games, even ragnarok online which is a game i haven't played for almost 10 years i had fun with some similar things

Everyone who likes the wow, can realize that the wow needs more commitment? investment? something like that needs to change seems that the patch is always released in beta and after a few months they fix, but this has already ruined the experience of the players, another problem is the factions the experience of playing in ally and horde is completely different for those who try to make any pug

because it is an old game, where we can not put up with things that are normal in all others of the genre and maybe even like if it were another game, but not here, here is annoying, repetitive, no luck..... so although I think they did it the wrong way and failed miserably, every MMORPG needs new players and developers because today, people change easily and much of it prefers a system similar to the Mobas or at least it is the impression I have from people

[Echo of Soul]

Why would combat be a superficial thing? I'm not even sure graphics (or by proxy art style) qualifies as superficial either. It feels as though you're trying to marginalize players who care about these things as lesser players.

Not at all. People are just different. It's like looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend, some prioritize looks and some prioritize brains. Whatever you're looking for it's valid because it's what you want.

[minteK917]

Man the game doing so well every day this forum gets a handful of new mad wow players wasting their time here lmao. Cant wait for endwalker release, its gona be insane the shit show this forum is gona reach.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

Man the game doing so well every day this forum gets a handful of new mad wow players wasting their time here lmao. Cant wait for endwalker release, its gona be insane the shit show this forum is gona reach.

Debatable. Endwalker will have impressive launch activity and accolades for sure, but once everyone has done the MSQ, will Endwalker have staying power? So far Shadowbringers has been pretty meh outside of the MSQ content (and to an extent, Werlyt).

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WoD had impressive launch numbers and everyone was praising it, but once everyone finished the questing, retention fell off a cliff.

[CalamityHeart]

Yes, I realized that.
But when you see statements like this one below...



I can't do anything but correct them, because it's just not true.

It should have say "I don't like the UI and combat in this game, I think it's disgusting."

The "I think" is typically implied in statements like the one you quoted. You don't have to defend FFXIV from these kinds of statements, or correct them. It's not that serious.

Assuming by default that someone is being subjective or speaking from personal opinion and not just that they're WRONG!!! when they say something you don't agree with may go a long way toward both understanding where other people are coming from, and/or preventing needlessly rude exchanges.

[Littleraven]

The story is solid and things you do actually matter in it. FFXIV is an RPG first and an MMO second and that speaks to a lot of people. It's not for everyone but anyone looking for something different from WoW should at least give it a try.

It feels real good to have your character in the story and be an actual part of it and not just this random adventurer who they keep trying to force as someone important but never fully commit to it because the game isn't set up that way. They don't force you to actually play through all the content because WoW is very much focused on getting to the endgame ASAP. FFXIV is the complete opposite of that and focuses on the journey.

Both have their strengths and weaknesses but with the current state of Blizzard as a whole people are just looking for something different at this point. World of Warcraft has become almost entirely an instanced game now and it was not always that way.

[Absintheminded]

• Is it though? Of the links you posted 87.5% of the options are faster than the fastest FF14 job. Only 5 (12.5%) of them have less CPM than NIN, with only 1 of them being melee. This is also a silly comparison because NIN is an outlier in FF14, and is already 15% faster than the next fastest class, and on average 30% faster than every other job.
• Tanks have significantly more CPM in WoW than FF14 to the point that 4/5 of them have 27% more CPM than the fastest tank in FF14. If we compare against the other 3 tanks, that gap widens further. The outlier (Blood DK), is only 14% faster than the GNB, but 40% faster than it's comparably slowest tank in FF14.
• Logs have not shown what you stated to be true. Your absolute fastest specs in FF14 are on par with the slowest specs in WoW. The majority of them appear to be 10-20% faster; which is significant when compared to anything BUT NIN.

Seems pretty far off to me, but maybe I'm misinterpreting the data somehow? Feel free to correct me.



Yubadtho? I'm messing



Why would combat be a superficial thing? I'm not even sure graphics (or by proxy art style) qualifies as superficial either. It feels as though you're trying to marginalize players who care about these things as lesser players.

It seems far off if you're only using WoW's fastest spec to compare. FFXIV jobs exist within WoW's slower specs.

[Littleraven]

Can you explain what you mean by this? You - the player - have no agency in the direction of the story, so I'm not sure what you're referring to here.

I guess the way I worded it is not the best. Basically what I mean by this is your character matters in the story. You are at the center of it and things you did expansions ago are remembered.

[Wrecktangle]

Not at all. People are just different. It's like looking for a boyfriend or girlfriend, some prioritize looks and some prioritize brains. Whatever you're looking for it's valid because it's what you want.

Then why use the word superficial and it's negative connotation? Just seems a little antagonistic that's all.

It seems far off if you're only using WoW's fastest spec to compare. FFXIV jobs exist within WoW's slower specs.

Did you uh... look at the links you sent or read my post...? Because the data you provided doesn't match your conclusion. I deliberately chose the fastest possible job in FF14, not WoW to justify your point using the data you supplied.

Can you please clarify where the data or I am mistaken?

[Echo of Soul]

Then why use the word superficial and it's negative connotation? Just seems a little antagonistic that's all.

Oh I'm sorry, English isn't my first language. Was that not the correct word? I meant like, if surface is more important to you than depth, that kinda thing.

[NineSpine]

That is my gripe with WoW too. But the combat design on WoW has improved over the years, same can not be said for FF14. And just tapping 3-4 for button and another 5 button from time to time don't require active brain cells to accomplish.

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"New experience"? Really? The combat of FF14 dramatically and horrendously mirror the combat of vanilla WoW, an 18 years old game. And you call that "new experience"?

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Again, if it bores me to death one the first 20 minute, why the fuck should I do it for hours after hours? Get it through your thick skulls.

Nobody is demanding that you like FF14. The question is whether you experienced enough of it to have an opinion worth discussing, and the answer to that is quite simply “no”.

You can keep whining about it, but it won’t change anything. People are still flocking to the game. People are still loving it. Wow is still falling apart. No amount of bellyaching and stomping your feet is going to change that,

You are welcome to your enjoyment of wows combat design. I don’t like massive amounts of RNG in my rotations. If you do, good for you. But if you think adding 14 Procs rotation somehow makes it some brain buster that you need a 400 IQ to play, you are just being immature and condescending.