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  1. #41
    ABC - Always Be Casting.

    I main Holy Priest and M+ is pretty much the only thing I care about in the game and have since Nighthold. I am by now means high key pusher and all keys that I do are pugs.

    I find it both fun and challenging to weave in DPS as much as I can - be it on boss pulls with Heroism where I try to use that entire 30 second window to DPS and just do that or throw out Shadow Word: Pain with Holy Fire on top of big HP adds while I Smite tanks main target. Does my DPS make or break the run? I doubt it. But it's fun and sometimes there's just nothing to heal, especially if pulling is slow and the DPS are on top of CC game (which they rarely are in PUGs).
    I also have a Resto Shaman alt that I try to play as much as I can and weaving in DPS on that one is a lot more fun because of Fire Shock procs and Venthyr ability/Legendary which I chose specifically for some juicy numbers on the meters with Chain Harvest goes off.

    I have tried healing in other MMO's and still heal on Classic as well and let me tell you - both versions of World of Warcraft handles healing very well. In other games, healers are DPSers with two big healing spells and some minimal utility.
    Last edited by Voidwielder; 2021-08-02 at 06:16 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    Yes.

    When was that ever not the case?
    All of vanilla, a lot of BC. Mana was not unlimited like it is now. Mana management was a thing, as well as downcasting.

  3. #43
    yup. tanks are dps with a taunt button, healers are dps that also keep people alive. its why wow pve has become garbage.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    It is not required in any content, there is 3 healers that include dmg for thier actual healing but the others gain nothing to thier healing through dmg, infact they should just remove healers doing dps completely, a healers job is healing and not have to do dps because players in the raid are not playing a dps class as well as they should.
    This is 100% false. In mythic+ for example, it is def required for a healer to dps when they can regardless of what healer you are playing. Maybe not at low keys but in high keys you need that extra dps no matter how little it is. Raid same thing. Any amount of damage you can contribute is better than 0.

  5. #45
    I think what most people who dislike the current setup is that they take up healing to try a different role and playstyle to help their group, but with healer dps being a thing, you are basically just taking up two roles at the same time.

    I'd much prefer it is the system was revamped and instead of healers doing damage during their downtime, they instead got the ability to cast support spells that buffed the damage dealing ability of the main dpsers. It would be that simple. Healers are still contributing to the earlier death of a boss, just indirectly now. There would still be no reason to ever be idle. A line is still drawn separating a good healer from a bad one. And now, dps standing in fire translate into their own parses being lower, giving them all the more reason to pay more attention.

  6. #46
    Every healer shoukd be doing damage during downtime of no healing. Resto shamans can at least toss out flame shocks for example and Holy paladins just do their regular rotation. If you weren't doing damage before then you were unknowingly playing the game wrong.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by NihilSustinet View Post
    yup. tanks are dps with a taunt button, healers are dps that also keep people alive. its why wow pve has become garbage.
    And when were these golden healing days? Down ranking in Classic/TBC?

    Healing right now in retail is very good and satisfying experience. At least in dungeons it is.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Cyranis View Post
    All of vanilla, a lot of BC. Mana was not unlimited like it is now. Mana management was a thing, as well as downcasting.
    Look, someone who only plays Holy Paladin. Or doesn't heal at all.

  8. #48
    DPS spells costing mana and the 5 second rule just meant that healers in the old game were encouraged to stand around doing nothing. That is terrible game design in 2021.

    Always Be Casting is correct. Hitting buttons is better than not hitting buttons
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  9. #49
    DPS is just mitigation of future damage.

  10. #50
    Elemental Lord callipygoustp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NordWitcher View Post
    I've done a few low keys, and I barely have time to keep up with healing let alone DPSing. How are healers expected to or are DPSing at higher keys? Is there something I ain't doing right or should be doing? Thanks for any and all advice. Could really use it.
    Low keys are the worst imo. Plenty of people are learning or maybe just flat out lazy or maybe just flat out shitty players; whatever the case often the lower the key the more I have to pay attention to health bars.

    In higher keys (thinking 14 and up) I tend to judge the quality of my group by how often I can blanket a trash pack with Moonfire/Sunfire and spam Wrath; in a really good group I can spend a solid amount of time kitty weaving. With the exception of a rough trash pack here and there, if I'm not regularly dpsing, there's a problem with the group and I'll be hoping to time it.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by astaroth1837 View Post
    This is 100% false. In mythic+ for example, it is def required for a healer to dps when they can regardless of what healer you are playing. Maybe not at low keys but in high keys you need that extra dps no matter how little it is. Raid same thing. Any amount of damage you can contribute is better than 0.
    Nope you are 100% completely wrong, all content can be done without the need for healers to do dps and that is a fact, the content is designed to be completed without the need for healers to do dps, the content can be cleared with undergeared players, after a few months most raiders have all the gear they could ever need.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Swnem View Post
    Yes.

    This should not be news. Even in vanilla you'd wand if you weren't healing. Any damage equals the fight ending sooner and less healing/mana being required.

    If you aren't keeping up with the healing you should not dps. You should focus on the healing. Healer dps is a bonus.
    But, if you have the gear and are being efficient you should have time to damage. Some specs also heal through damage.
    Wanding was not for dps in vanilla. It was for mana regen and possibly threat gen slow. Wand damage was so utterly inconsequential.

  13. #53
    I am Murloc! KOUNTERPARTS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenn9530 View Post
    Nope you are 100% completely wrong, all content can be done without the need for healers to do dps and that is a fact, the content is designed to be completed without the need for healers to do dps, the content can be cleared with undergeared players, after a few months most raiders have all the gear they could ever need.

    I agree with you... but you're only speaking to raiding. Mythic+ is designed to be done within a timer; that is the system. Contributing 0 DPS in your group as a healer is typically detrimental to your run... especially in higher keys.

  14. #54
    I am Murloc!
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    Depends on what you play and the group you're playing with.

    One can argue that if you're sitting there doing absolutely nothing that it COULD be on you, but equally it could be a groups problem. If there's nothing to heal it means that your group could be attempting bigger pulls to challenge you as a healer, and the group as a whole in regards to preventing damage. If you're taking the approach of a few mobs at a time, it's rarely going to be a healing issue.

    Equally you could be in a different group having the same pull pattern and have to heal your brains out because the DPS don't know how to interrupt, they stand in shit, or your tank is equally as bad in different areas as well.

    Some healing classes naturally DPS just by being there, like disc priest and holy paladin. Disc priest naturally does damage and if you play a holy paladin correctly, you should be doing a decent amount of damage too. If you're looking to get more damage in as a shaman you can literally perform just fine making the earth elemental legendary that's meant for elemental and popping it on CD. Other healing classes have varieties of ways to sneak damage in as well, but some of it depends on talent choices.

    If you're not the one doing pulls and the group insists on pulling a certain way, you might as well try to throw empty GCDs into damage because there's nothing else to do. Otherwise, encourage them to pull bigger if it makes sense.

  15. #55
    Healers never used to have to dps...

    If it's this way now, it's because the game has evolved into a community of teenage minded, dipshit try-hards, brought on by poor game design.

    Mana no longer became a concern after Cata, on top of classes largely having their own heals, absorbs, and leech -- healers became bored. So Blizzard tried to spice things up a bit by giving them something else to do in their rotation (DPS spells). It's this poor design that got rid of First Aid. They got rid of First Aid because no one needed it anymore. How about fix the problems for why no one needs First Aid, instead of just removing it?

    As a Mage, I rarely need healing. A freakin mage! No wonder why healers are DPS'ing now.
    Last edited by ablib; 2021-08-02 at 07:50 PM.

  16. #56
    The only way to minimize the contribution of healer DPS would be to add tons of unavoidable damage to all content so that it is literally impossible without someone babysitting bars.

    I'm not sure this would be a better game, but it would mean that healers would have to spend every global on a healing spell.
    A better way to think about Casual v Hardcore: https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...asual-Hardcore

  17. #57
    I mean, if you would otherwise afk why wouldn’t you dps? It doesn’t even cost mana for the majority of spells.

    I think it’s better with most damage being avoidable and a certain amount not. Being able to read the situation and get the most dps while keeping the group alive is a lot harder than just healing.

    Consider this, at a high key level most mechanics will flat out one shot players. At this point, healers are there for cooldowns, boss fights and rare encounters where damage is inevitable.

    As a healer, if you joined a truly good group at level 15 or so and refused to dps, you would be afk for 90% of it. Most damage is unintentional.
    Last edited by DechCJC; 2021-08-02 at 07:58 PM.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by KOUNTERPARTS View Post
    I agree with you... but you're only speaking to raiding. Mythic+ is designed to be done within a timer; that is the system. Contributing 0 DPS in your group as a healer is typically detrimental to your run... especially in higher keys.
    Mythic plus can be done with the healer doing no dps though, you can do the highest relevant keys in time without a healer doing any dmg.
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  19. #59
    The Patient
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    Yes. Here's a (FFXIV) video that explains it best.



    In short, a healer's job is to keep the party alive, and they should use their downtime between heals to deal damage.

    While some of the points in the aforementioned video don't directly apply to WoW (i.e. tank HP won't auto-regen to full between pulls), the concept is the same. Healer DPS can mean all the difference when killing a boss, timing a M+ key or landing a kill in an Arena match.

  20. #60
    Brewmaster Outofmana's Avatar
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    The person responsible for healing in retail actually hates healing. So a disc priest choice for a person who hates healing and likes DPSing wasn't enough, so that now, a paladin is also a fully hybrid dps=healing class, and more.

    The sole healerrole, the reason why many people used to heal, is almost fully gone sadly. Might be people who like it, but these people should've been just dps, but they ruined the classic healerrole instead.

    Nothing to do during downtime just means they either tuned the dmg too low, or the manaregen too high (so you can spare mana to dps). Shouldn't be like that.

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