Do Healers have to DPS now during down time in between heals?

[Low Hanging Fruit]

It happened when the game attempted to become an esport so they wanted to pump apm as much as possible into every roll in the game. It made sense when it was for ultra high end play trying to get kills in under geared situations. But it bleed all the way down to the lowest levels of content.

[Tyris Flare]

Mythic plus can be done with the healer doing no dps though, you can do the highest relevant keys in time without a healer doing any dmg.

As the saying goes, you can also drive with your feet, but why would you want to when using your hands is easier?

You'll probably eventually be able to beat mythic Sylvanas with a crappy comp, too, but that doesn't really mean anything.

[Gestopft]

or the manaregen too high (so you can spare mana to dps). Shouldn't be like that.

I have no idea why some of y'all hate the idea of "healer DPS" but somehow "waiting around for mana" is ok...

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The only way to minimize the contribution of healer DPS would be to add tons of unavoidable damage to all content so that it is literally impossible without someone babysitting bars.

I'm not sure this would be a better game, but it would mean that healers would have to spend every global on a healing spell.

It would also fundamentally dissociate the experience from the healer from that of the group in a number of ways, and scaling that sort of consistent damage for M+ would be really hard to do, if not impossible.

[gaymer77]

ESO and FF14 are even worse if I recall correctly

You are 100% correct. In both ESO and FF14 a healer is expected to dps when they are not healing as healers in both of those games have debuffs to put on what is being killed.

[Gestopft]

It happened when the game attempted to become an esport so they wanted to pump apm as much as possible into every roll in the game. It made sense when it was for ultra high end play trying to get kills in under geared situations. But it bleed all the way down to the lowest levels of content.

Tanks and DPS are (nearly) always doing something: why would healers get to just sit around?

[deenman]

I've picked up healing again after being years away from the game since early MoP. Do Healers have to DPS during down time these days? I'm lost and confused.

I picked up healing on a Holy Paladin and a Resto Shaman. I found myself being pushed into using Crusader strikes on enemies and bosses. Which turned me off the spec and class that I enjoyed healing on back in the day. I levelled up a Shaman and decided to try Resto. I've been seeing a lot of talk about healers doing a ton of DPS in Mythic keys and am wondering if I should be DPSing as well when not healing or during downtime?

I've done a few low keys, and I barely have time to keep up with healing let alone DPSing. How are healers expected to or are DPSing at higher keys? Is there something I ain't doing right or should be doing? Thanks for any and all advice. Could really use it.

yeah,you pretty much have to dps as a healer,if your not doing it,your basicaly dragging the team down,content is designed around the healers doing dmg,and even if the content is so easy you dont NEED to dps,you will still slow the group down imensly by not dpsing,i havent been playing shadowlands but,in the past holy pala had extreme burst rivaling some of the best dps specs,and resto shaman also has good sustained dmg

in the past(i forget wwhat expansion),the healer dmg spels gave you mana back as an even bigger incentive to dps,like ligthing bolt

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It happened when the game attempted to become an esport so they wanted to pump apm as much as possible into every roll in the game. It made sense when it was for ultra high end play trying to get kills in under geared situations. But it bleed all the way down to the lowest levels of content.

they would have to take away healers ability to dps completly,and that would suck imensly for solo play,also even if your doing easy content,you should still dps as a healer just so you dont waste the groups time for no reason just standing there and doing nothing?

also healers dpsing was always the case from vanila until today,in the past healers dmg spells even gave mana back

[Thelxi]

Just do a little bit and if someone criticizes you (I can't imagine) blame it on having to heal too much.

[Dzonathan]

But believe me, ESO and FF14 are even worse if I recall correctly. WoW actually manages to keep healers healing most of the time. In those games healers are basically just DPS who cast an occasional heal.

Not as damning as you're trying to make it sound because:

Tanks are basically just DPS who cast an occasional mitigation.
DPS are basically just DPS who cast an occasional interrupt.
Healers are basically just DPS who cast an occasional heal.

[Hellobolis]

They absolutely should not.

Nobody wants to sit around twiddling their thumbs. Healers need something to do in their downtime. DPS is the obvious choice, since it's what everyone else does in their downtime.

"It's not required" is not the same as "you shouldn't do it." You SHOULD do it, especially if it's not "required," because it will finish everything faster. Healers are given DPS abilities so they can do DPS - Choosing not to is a waste of your ability.

dps in downtime is a choice, but not the only choice.

i'd say some sort of active mana regen mechanic would be more appropriate. but you can go nuts and come up with all sorts of support mechanics that reward the group for good play that aren't direct dps by the healer. a sated reduction mechanic would be pretty cool for M+, speeding up combat ress recharge nice for progress raids, etc.

dps scales very well with easier content though.

[kenn9530]

They absolutely should not.

Nobody wants to sit around twiddling their thumbs. Healers need something to do in their downtime. DPS is the obvious choice, since it's what everyone else does in their downtime.

"It's not required" is not the same as "you shouldn't do it." You SHOULD do it, especially if it's not "required," because it will finish everything faster. Healers are given DPS abilities so they can do DPS - Choosing not to is a waste of your ability.

There is always something to heal so dps is not required, bringing in 1 less healer and 1 more dps is more benedficial than some medicore healer damage, there is never a time where a healer is doing nothing.

A healer should be focused only on healing, if they introduced a mechanic that increased your healing after doing some damage then it would be ok but as it stands pure healers get nothing.

As the saying goes, you can also drive with your feet, but why would you want to when using your hands is easier?

You'll probably eventually be able to beat mythic Sylvanas with a crappy comp, too, but that doesn't really mean anything.

In the past healers just healed as the damage they had was pointless, if healers have time to dps then you are bringing too many healers plain and simple, bring in 1 more dps instead will kill the boss faster.

[Gestopft]

Healers never used to have to dps...

It was called the 5-second rule. They wouldn't regen mana if they were casting damage spells.

If it's this way now, it's because the game has evolved into a community of teenage minded, dipshit try-hards, brought on by poor game design.

It's nothing of the sort, and remarkable projection on your part. It's because part of being in a group means doing what you can to help, and with the 5-second rule gone, healers can freely add damage during periods of low damaging without impacting their mana regen.

Mana no longer became a concern after Cata,

Only in the sense of the 5-second rule, and good riddance to that. You can still very much OOM as a healer (although it's really hard to do so as a Paladin if you're playing it right); you just won't OOM by adding damage.

on top of classes largely having their own heals, absorbs, and leech -- healers became bored. So Blizzard tried to spice things up a bit by giving them something else to do in their rotation (DPS spells). It's this poor design that got rid of First Aid. They got rid of First Aid because no one needed it anymore. How about fix the problems for why no one needs First Aid, instead of just removing it?

Healers have never "become bored." Yes, most classes/specs are more self sustaining. They didn't give healers damage spells to "spice things up;" because for one- they've always had damage spells, and two- there have always been some times where there wasn't much/any healing that needs to be done. Groups that practice good mob control have always been easier on the healer. Groups that overgear the dungeon and are running for badges/daily/etc. have always been easier on the healer. Groups that know the dungeon well have always been easier on the healer.

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There is always something to heal so dps is not required, bringing in 1 less healer and 1 more dps

That logic doesn't apply to M+...you know...the medium where healer damage tends to be the most important.

A healer should be focused only on healing

This is a weirdly fundamentalist attitude to have, tbh. Should they not also do utility? By the same token, should tank abilities even do damage? Or should they just cause threat? Should DPS not use their DRs and off heals ever?

Just because something is your primary role, doesn't mean it has to be the only thing you do.

[Very Tired]

Not as damning as you're trying to make it sound because:

Tanks are basically just DPS who cast an occasional mitigation.
DPS are basically just DPS who cast an occasional interrupt.
Healers are basically just DPS who cast an occasional heal.

I mean, that it pretty damaging from your own admission. Everything is just dps with little variety or other roles to fill other than wacking the boss.

[kenn9530]

That logic doesn't apply to M+...you know...the medium where healer damage tends to be the most important.



This is a weirdly fundamentalist attitude to have, tbh. Should they not also do utility? By the same token, should tank abilities even do damage? Or should they just cause threat? Should DPS not use their DRs and off heals ever?

Just because something is your primary role, doesn't mean it has to be the only thing you do.

Its easy to time a 15-20 key without a healer doing damage so its not important for a healer to do damage.

For many expansions healers focused on healing which includes using utility as thier damage was pointless to even use anyway, its not a good thing when healers can pump out high damage and healing at the same time, other healers are unable to do that and that is not the role a healer plays in WoW.

[Frozenbro]

There is always something to heal so dps is not required, bringing in 1 less healer and 1 more dps is more benedficial than some medicore healer damage, there is never a time where a healer is doing nothing.

A healer should be focused only on healing, if they introduced a mechanic that increased your healing after doing some damage then it would be ok but as it stands pure healers get nothing.



In the past healers just healed as the damage they had was pointless, if healers have time to dps then you are bringing too many healers plain and simple, bring in 1 more dps instead will kill the boss faster.

Hot takes that show the lvl of content you do, hopefully people ignore you.

[Gestopft]

For many expansions healers focused on healing which includes using utility as thier damage was pointless to even use anyway

Uh...healers still focus on healing...

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Its easy to time a 15-20 key without a healer doing damage so its not important for a healer to do damage.

And there are usually going to be times in that key where there is minimal or no incoming damage. Should a healer just...twiddle their thumbs while the rest of the group stays active?

[kenn9530]

Hot takes that show the lvl of content you do, hopefully people ignore you.

Im skilled for the highest level of content WoW has to offer, a healers role however should not include doing damage, i myself put out damage when i can but a healer should not be forced to as the content does not require it.

Uh...healers still focus on healing...

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And there are usually going to be times in that key where there is minimal or no incoming damage. Should a healer just...twiddle their thumbs while the rest of the group stays active?

A healer is never just standing doing nothing, there is always damage going out in a mythic plus, my point is healers should not be expected to do damage just because you have the option since there is no actual need for it.

[Gestopft]

there is always damage going out in a mythic plus

Are...are you serious?

[kenn9530]

Are...are you serious?

As soon as a tank pulls a group there is damage going out, i only do 15s and higher, there is often lots of damage that can go out and a healer doing dps means someone is going to die.

It shouldnt be expected for a healer to contribute dps, if they want to and dont let anyone die then fine but there is a high chance someone could die while a healer does dmg that could of been avoided with them healing.

[Better]

If you're just getting back into healing I'd say it depends on both spec, and situation. Hpal, and disc priest are both TIED to dealing damage. As in you have to do damage to heal efficiently. So for these specs yes, you SHOULD be doing damage.

For the other specs. If you're stood there standing still for more than 2 seconds not doing anything as a healer, you're just being dead weight. There's no reason you couldn't be throwing out offensive spells. I've seen many healers in PuG M+s since M+ was introduced just kinda strung along for the ride throwing out 2-3 heals total in a pull and just idle the rest of the time (This was at it's worst during Legion, and is part of why the 1 tank 4 DPS strat for lower keys got somewhat popular). If that's you, throw some damage out it's really not hard, and is far more useful to the group than you just standing there.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

they would have to take away healers ability to dps completly,and that would suck imensly for solo play,also even if your doing easy content,you should still dps as a healer just so you dont waste the groups time for no reason just standing there and doing nothing?

also healers dpsing was always the case from vanila until today,in the past healers dmg spells even gave mana back

They don't have to. I mean they obviously changed it to this and the game seemed to have worked then. I should stress I play healer and don't mind DPSing. I just think how they made it a lot more meta is more the problem.

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Tanks and DPS are (nearly) always doing something: why would healers get to just sit around?

What makes you think they just sit around? Sure in insanely high end groups this might be the case as people avoid as much avoidable as possible. CDs are used. Things are interrupted. You are right in this situation they COULD sit around then. But we are talking with better end groups so adding DPS makes sense. The problem is when it bleeds down into groups that are eating all the shit. No CDs being used. Nothing being interrupted. The healer has to purely heal but is punished for not DPSing and eats the blame. I will stress I heal and don't mind the healing meta doing DPS but it should be meta. It has bleed down to far.