1. #9401
    Immortal TEHPALLYTANK's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I have kids. As a family we decided that it was better for my wife to stay at home and raise the kids even when I was not making great money. It can be done.

    I have thought things through. I fail to see why demanding maximum self responsibility is a bad thing and why expecting a handout from the government is a good thing.
    I'm calling bullshit on your claim of "not making great money". You're making great money if you're able to cover the expenses of two adults and three children on a single income, in the USA.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bigbamboozal View Post
    Intelligence is like four wheel drive, it's not going to make you unstoppable, it just sort of tends to get you stuck in more remote places.
    Quote Originally Posted by MerinPally View Post
    If you want to be disgusted, next time you kiss someone remember you've got your mouth on the end of a tube which has shit at the other end, held back by a couple of valves.

  2. #9402
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I'm calling bullshit on your claim of "not making great money". You're making great money if you're able to cover the expenses of two adults and three children on a single income, in the USA.
    I don't think $40k is great money, but it was enough if you accepted not having lots of new shiny toys, eating sensibly, not driving a newer car, and being smart about where you lived. Granted, that was three-four years ago. Now I would need about $50k.

  3. #9403
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I swear it's because you can edit out or delete posts, but you can't un-vote a poll.
    So a poll means support even though you guys say you can vote anyone except Trump. So the hundreds of people voting agai8nst Trump, meant they were lying? Everyone supported Joe Biden all along, never wanted sanders or anybody else, according to you, everyone voted democrat to supported Joe Biden. That is what a poll means to you and most of the people on this board. There were hundreds of posts saying they would vote anybody against Trump...but that is impossible according to you, it has to be a vote of support. I have yet to see anyone show an actual post where I stated I supported Trump, just a poll asking who I would vote for...but I want to vote anti democratic party. Just like most of you who vote anti Republican no matter who they are. But you guys now conflate that to support....why? Why be so intellectually dishonest?

  4. #9404
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    So a poll means support even though you guys say you can vote anyone except Trump. So the hundreds of people voting agai8nst Trump, meant they were lying? Everyone supported Joe Biden all along, never wanted sanders or anybody else, according to you, everyone voted democrat to supported Joe Biden. That is what a poll means to you and most of the people on this board. There were hundreds of posts saying they would vote anybody against Trump...but that is impossible according to you, it has to be a vote of support. I have yet to see anyone show an actual post where I stated I supported Trump, just a poll asking who I would vote for...but I want to vote anti democratic party. Just like most of you who vote anti Republican no matter who they are. But you guys now conflate that to support....why? Why be so intellectually dishonest?
    This is probably the shittiest argument you could have used.

  5. #9405
    Quote Originally Posted by Edge- View Post
    No, that's the segment of the population that believes the vaccine makes you magnetic coming into play. I'd be curious to see why people believe this, because that would be fairly telling.

    Kinda like, not his fault when governors are banning mask mandates, banning private businesses from requiring vaccines, and the state rollout programs in some states is a fuckin travesty.
    You guys let your denizens post page after page about the pandemic in the Trump thread. Post after post after post...but that means nothing to Trump's approval? Then why are they posted day after day, responded to by people like you. It should go in the pandemic thread because that's what those posts are about. But you guys respond and post about it day after day as if it means something about Trump. If it means nothing about his approval , why is it posted there and responded to by people like you, day after day?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    Why do you insist on saying this, when your history is eminently searchable to anyone who bothers?

    Here's you saying you were voting for Trump in a poll from the 2020 Trump Campaign thread; https://www.mmo-champion.com/poll.ph...do=showresults

    You admitted to supporting him. You just want to play silly buggers.
    So a poll that gives a choice of vote for or against is your proof I support someone? That is it. It can't be that I would never vote democratic party. I mean you guys can posts hundreds of posts about voting anyone but Trump, but the opposite can't be true?

    So if there was a poll that asked if I could go back in time, would I kill Hitler before he rose to power, and I answered no, do I support Hitler? If you can snap answer that with a yes, you know little about European History.

  6. #9406
    The Insane draynay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by postman1782 View Post
    This is probably the shittiest argument you could have used.
    Its better than last time when he claimed he was voting against Biden despite the poll being from early 2019.
    /s

  7. #9407
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    They have been doing ok around here, without having to completely tearing up the roads.
    The horrible state of US infrastructure is not debatable although politicians haggle over spending not even the GOP is denying it. Your feefees are irrelevant to the fact that we need to fix this to face the challenges ahead.

  8. #9408
    Quote Originally Posted by TEHPALLYTANK View Post
    I'm calling bullshit on your claim of "not making great money". You're making great money if you're able to cover the expenses of two adults and three children on a single income, in the USA.
    Too true.
    Insurance policies alone eat up a significant percentage.

  9. #9409
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    You guys let your denizens post page after page about the pandemic in the Trump thread. Post after post after post...but that means nothing to Trump's approval?
    Trump added to the pandemic problem. There are other idiots who made the pandemic worse but Trump's the only one with his own megathread because he did many stupid things on top of the pandemic.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    So a poll that gives a choice of vote for or against is your proof I support someone?
    The poll specifically asks if you will vote for Trump's re-election. You answered "Yes".

    It doesn't ask if you're conservative. Or Republican. Or about their policies. Or which Democrat candidates you dislike. Or which policies you dislike.

    The poll is entirely unambiguous.

  10. #9410
    I Don't Work Here Endus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    So a poll that gives a choice of vote for or against is your proof I support someone? That is it. It can't be that I would never vote democratic party. I mean you guys can posts hundreds of posts about voting anyone but Trump, but the opposite can't be true?

    So if there was a poll that asked if I could go back in time, would I kill Hitler before he rose to power, and I answered no, do I support Hitler? If you can snap answer that with a yes, you know little about European History.
    Why bring time travel and killing people into it? Let's just talk voting.

    If you were Weimar citizen voting in the 1930 election, or either of the 1932 elections (I don't care which, just setting the stage), and you voted for the Nazi Party and thus Hitler, then that would make you a supporter of Hitler. It would make you at a minimum a Nazi supporter, and frankly, historians would just simplify that right down to "Nazi", because that's what the term means.

    If you voted for Hitler, that would be unequivocal proof you were a Nazi, yes. It doesn't matter why you became a Nazi; there is no "but it's okay for me to be a Nazi because X" argument to be made. You're just a Nazi, like any of the other Nazis. Voting "against" the Weimar Republic because you're concerned about the workers and the direction the Republic was taking, and choosing to do so by voting for the Nazi Party? You're a Nazi. That's what the word means. In this "what-if" hypothetical.

    That's how voting works. You didn't vote against Biden. You didn't vote against the Democrats in general. You voted for Trump. That's an objective, definitive, official statement of your support for that candidate.

    You supported Trump. Objectively, definitively, by your own admission.

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    Also;

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    Just like most of you who vote anti Republican no matter who they are. But you guys now conflate that to support....why?
    I have literally never in my life ever voted anti-Republican. I've never voted against a candidate, ever. Not only has that literally never been an option on any ballot, because ballots ask you to vote for a candidate, even conceptually, I never chose who I voted for based on who their opposition was. Not ever, in any election, at any level, in my life.

    Stop projecting your own malfeasance onto others, when you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.
    Last edited by Endus; 2021-08-03 at 01:40 PM.


  11. #9411
    Quote Originally Posted by Endus View Post
    I have literally never in my life ever voted anti-Republican. I've never voted against a candidate, ever. Not only has that literally never been an option on any ballot, because ballots ask you to vote for a candidate, even conceptually, I never chose who I voted for based on who their opposition was. Not ever, in any election, at any level, in my life.
    There's nothing wrong with voting against a candidate.

    I voted against Steven Harper. I chose the Liberals because I thought they had the best chance of winning.
    I voted against the Premier of my province because he's a run of the mill conservative who will (and did) slash healthcare funding. The opposition were fucking idiots.
    I voted against the Mayor of my city because he once floated the idea of getting rid of property taxes in favour of increased sales tax. Again the opposition were idiots and I voted for whoever was polling better.

    The US is still a two party system mostly. Loudly proclaiming how much you hate the opposition is irrelevant when the guy you did vote for is a clown who got tens of thousands of people killed.

  12. #9412
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    You guys let your denizens post page after page about the pandemic in the Trump thread. Post after post after post...but that means nothing to Trump's approval?
    Trump's approval rating overall? On the virus? If it's the former, we've covered that. If it's the latter, remember that time he mused about injecting people with sunshine and bleach? That was a good time, I got more if you want them.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    It should go in the pandemic thread because that's what those posts are about.
    No, they're about the political element of the pandemic, which isn't relevant for that thread which is about covid. It was discussing the political/policy failures of the Trump administration, which is something we're doing less with Biden since his administration is not failing as miserably.

    Quote Originally Posted by TexasRules View Post
    If it means nothing about his approval , why is it posted there and responded to by people like you, day after day?
    Discussing national policy. Discussing him arguing and disagreeing with his own experts. Discussing how he risked infecting USSS agents for a drive-by for his fans. Discussing how he knew the virus was serious while publicly downplaying the threat of the virus. Discussing the lives lost due to a failed federal and many federal state responses before the vaccine, and how he continues to not really push the vaccine now despite being vaccinated himself.

    I mean, if you actually read along without taking personal offense because we were shit talking Trump (literally nobody believes you don't/didn't support him) you'd have caught all this. But complaining about it in the Biden thread is kinda silly.

    You've come here to do that, and people disagreed.

  13. #9413
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I fail to see why demanding maximum self responsibility is a bad thing and why expecting a handout from the government is a good thing.
    One would think the crap state of American infrastructure and social services and the ensuing social and economic problems that causes is demonstrative of why bitching about "handouts" is missing the point.

    It is not a handout. It is a social investment by the state; America has gotten extremely bad at investing in itself and is now paying the price by increasingly resembling the late Soviet Union.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  14. #9414
    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    One would think the crap state of American infrastructure and social services and the ensuing social and economic problems that causes is demonstrative of why bitching about "handouts" is missing the point.

    It is not a handout. It is a social investment by the state; America has gotten extremely bad at investing in itself and is now paying the price by increasingly resembling the late Soviet Union.
    Remember it's only a handout when it's regular people, when you drop 2 trillion dollars on the rich for nothing in return it's helping the "job creators".

  15. #9415
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Remember it's only a handout when it's regular people, when you drop 2 trillion dollars on the rich for nothing in return it's helping the "job creators".
    The other fun fact that people of that political stripe like to conveniently forget is that it's not solely a matter of how much money is being spent - which is why "reminding" people that the US spends proportionately similar amounts to other countries in a given area is also missing the point.

    The US might spend the same or more, but the difference is that unlike in other countries most of that spending goes towards privatized analogues of shit which is publicly run in other countries; rather than a near 50/50 split of public to private investment, it's more like 20/80 in the case of the US. And because the private sector calculates their price tags as a function of profit rather than simply how much it costs to provide X service, each dollar the US spends is markedly less effective than one spent in Canada or the EU.

    Another devil in this particular equation is that the US engages in large infrastructure projects far less frequently than elsewhere, so additional waste is created in having to rebuild the organizational capital every single time a new program comes up. This is partially why NASA has gotten so bad at spending money compared to the Apollo Era - every new project requires reinventing the wheel.

    They really don't see the irony in insisting that the military needs to keep building tanks that never get used so as to not cause knowledge attrition but don't think to apply the same to any other form of public spending.
    Last edited by Elegiac; 2021-08-03 at 11:06 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  16. #9416
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    The horrible state of US infrastructure is not debatable although politicians haggle over spending not even the GOP is denying it. Your feefees are irrelevant to the fact that we need to fix this to face the challenges ahead.
    Most of the damage to roads around here is to the surface, the roadbed is not generally in bad shape until you get to either really old or remote roads (which are often one and the same). I am well aware (and have agreed) that we need to repair about half the roads in the US.

    Make long distance trucks actually pay for the damage they cause, problem solved.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shadowferal View Post
    Too true.
    Insurance policies alone eat up a significant percentage.
    Depends on how much your company pays for.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    One would think the crap state of American infrastructure and social services and the ensuing social and economic problems that causes is demonstrative of why bitching about "handouts" is missing the point.

    It is not a handout. It is a social investment by the state; America has gotten extremely bad at investing in itself and is now paying the price by increasingly resembling the late Soviet Union.
    I have nothing against appropriate government infrastructure spending, nor am I against actually needed social assistance. I am against thinking it should come easily to individuals that have done little to address it themselves.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Draco-Onis View Post
    Remember it's only a handout when it's regular people, when you drop 2 trillion dollars on the rich for nothing in return it's helping the "job creators".
    I don't agree with tax breaks for the wealthy, I do not like giving money away with nothing in exchange no matter who is getting it. I dont really like deductions for anyone for that matter. You make X you should pay Y.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    The other fun fact that people of that political stripe like to conveniently forget is that it's not solely a matter of how much money is being spent - which is why "reminding" people that the US spends proportionately similar amounts to other countries in a given area is also missing the point.

    The US might spend the same or more, but the difference is that unlike in other countries most of that spending goes towards privatized analogues of shit which is publicly run in other countries; rather than a near 50/50 split of public to private investment, it's more like 20/80 in the case of the US. And because the private sector calculates their price tags as a function of profit rather than simply how much it costs to provide X service, each dollar the US spends is markedly less effective than one spent in Canada or the EU.

    Another devil in this particular equation is that the US engages in large infrastructure projects far less frequently than elsewhere, so additional waste is created in having to rebuild the organizational capital every single time a new program comes up. This is partially why NASA has gotten so bad at spending money compared to the Apollo Era - every new project requires reinventing the wheel.

    They really don't see the irony in insisting that the military needs to keep building tanks that never get used so as to not cause knowledge attrition but don't think to apply the same to any other form of public spending.
    We are not in danger of totally losing much in the way of civilian infrastructure industrial base or know-how.

  17. #9417
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    I have nothing against appropriate government infrastructure spending, nor am I against actually needed social assistance. I am against thinking it should come easily to individuals that have done little to address it themselves.
    That's nice, you've yet to justify such a viewpoint and seem to think repeating it makes it factual.

    We are not in danger of totally losing much in the way of civilian infrastructure industrial base or know-how.
    Which is manifestly untrue when you compare how out of practice the US is when it comes to any infrastructural project compared to countries that do it regularly. That is why it takes longer, costs more, and the end result is usually of worse quality.

    To say nothing of, again, the fact that most of the money is eaten up by the profit motive which is the definition of inefficiency.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

  18. #9418
    Banned Kellhound's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Elegiac View Post
    That's nice, you've yet to justify such a viewpoint and seem to think repeating it makes it factual.



    Which is manifestly untrue when you compare how out of practice the US is when it comes to any infrastructural project compared to countries that do it regularly. That is why it takes longer, costs more, and the end result is usually of worse quality.

    To say nothing of, again, the fact that most of the money is eaten up by the profit motive which is the definition of inefficiency.
    The same can be said of your viewpoint.

    There is a significant difference between not having surge capacity and not having any capacity. Name a civilian infrastructure industrial base the US is in danger of losing.

  19. #9419
    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    Most of the damage to roads around here is to the surface, the roadbed is not generally in bad shape until you get to either really old or remote roads (which are often one and the same). I am well aware (and have agreed) that we need to repair about half the roads in the US.
    What part of almost a century old did you not understand?

  20. #9420
    Void Lord Elegiac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kellhound View Post
    The same can be said of your viewpoint.
    Not really unless you're of the opinion that reducing hardship is a bad thing.

    There is a significant difference between not having surge capacity and not having any capacity.
    A difference which isn't relevant to the fact the US is bad at infrastructure because such projects are ad hoc versus countries which regularly engage in it. Lol.

    No one's interested in pedantry.
    Quote Originally Posted by Marjane Satrapi
    The world is not divided between East and West. You are American, I am Iranian, we don't know each other, but we talk and understand each other perfectly. The difference between you and your government is much bigger than the difference between you and me. And the difference between me and my government is much bigger than the difference between me and you. And our governments are very much the same.

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