Seriously, what do you really want to see I. World of Warcraft ?

[Jackstraw]

Read what I say Jack.. it is as much a night elf story as druids are. Meaning it's not an only night elf thing.

It is not just night elves, but it is night elf based and derived, led..

demon hunters is how night elves do fel.. or rather Illidari is how night elves do felThis is a very ancient race remember, they've done it all before, and to insane levels. Don't limit them to a village tree hugger that only knows of green and good things.

No.

As I said, the earliest are probably Troll daemonics which predate the Kaldorei.
There is no base in the Kaldorei to trace what the Demon Hunters do to get their powers. The enslavement, bending and otherwise consumption are elements actively shunned by the Kaldorei culture as a whole, shown only in the degradation of Eldre'thalas.

And as Tanaria said, Kayn is as Illidari as it gets. Altruis is the "separatist", and the more adhering to the Illidari ethos is a Blood elf who does not see himself as a Blood elf, as Horde or as anything that's not Illidari. In the Legion flashbacks we see Illidan consuming his comrades as an extreme measure, but Illidan was a renegade and operated as one, separated by his own culture.

[ravenmoon]

No.

As I said, the earliest are probably Troll daemonics which predate the Kaldorei.
There is no base in the Kaldorei to trace what the Demon Hunters do to get their powers. The enslavement, bending and otherwise consumption are elements actively shunned by the Kaldorei culture as a whole, shown only in the degradation of Eldre'thalas.

And as Tanaria said, Kayn is as Illidari as it gets. Altruis is the "separatist", and the more adhering to the Illidari ethos is a Blood elf who does not see himself as a Blood elf, as Horde or as anything that's not Illidari. In the Legion flashbacks we see Illidan consuming his comrades as an extreme measure, but Illidan was a renegade and operated as one, separated by his own culture.

Where do you get troll demonic a were earlier?

They show up in MOP

And the Legion demons don’t come to Azeroth before the night elves open that door. How can troll demoniacs be older than demon hunters?

Furthermore they are a separate thing even if they have similar operations and areas of overlap.

In terms of use of demons and fel magic, Illidari demon hunters whether caster or melee are very similar to warlocks but they are also very different.

[Tanaria]

Where do you get troll demonic a were earlier?

They show up in MOP

And the Legion demons don’t come to Azeroth before the night elves open that door. How can troll demoniacs be older than demon hunters?

Furthermore they are a separate thing even if they have similar operations and areas of overlap.

In terms of use of demons and fel magic, Illidari demon hunters whether caster or melee are very similar to warlocks but they are also very different.

But they aren't any "caster" demon hunters, which are like Warlocks.

The Illidari army contained Sunfury Blood Elf Warlocks as well as Fel Orc Warlocks, but the Demon Hunters are a separate thing to Warlocks.
Warlocks summon in Demons, whilst Demon Hunters destroy the Demons.

I think your better off trying to seperate the Demon Hunter from the Elf. Neither Night Elves nor Blood Elves of their respective factions, champion the "Demon Hunter" cause. You don't see Blood Elves walking to the Sunfury Spire and seek a Demon Hunter trainer.
It's only the Blood Elves that have Warlocks within Silvermoon society, but even then - it's minimal at best. (I know you wanted to bring that out with your idea of blood elves living in Netherstorm, but it doesn't work because it was never a big thing. And also using "Nether Arcane" whatever that is...using the Arcane in the Twisting Nether..? Well, Lightforged Draenei have the Blood Elves beat on that one by 24,000 years.)

[Jackstraw]

Where do you get troll demonic a were earlier?

They show up in MOP

And the Legion demons don’t come to Azeroth before the night elves open that door. How can troll demoniacs be older than demon hunters?

Furthermore they are a separate thing even if they have similar operations and areas of overlap.

In terms of use of demons and fel magic, Illidari demon hunters whether caster or melee are very similar to warlocks but they are also very different.

Due to what's been shown and known, daemonics are presumed to be the forefathers of Demon Hunters, with evidences going as far as Vanilla.
How can they be older? The Legion might very well have had some modicum of contact with Azeroth even before the full scale invasion that followed during Azshara's reign.

They are a separate thing? Of course. One is a proper order, the other a branch of what could later have become the Warlock spellcaster, maybe the earliest example of Demonology. But as far as function go, both hunt Demons, both feed off a Demon within - although Illidari consume theirs and daemonics keep one inside enslaved and warded - and both employ light armor and scorched earth tactics.

All in all that's semantics.
The point is that there's nothing strictly Kaldorei in the Demon Hunters, with the class sets further divorcing from anything shown previously of the race. There's a sensible difference in the first Demon Hunter being Night elf and everything else to be aswell. I'll concede the traditional Demon Hunter weapon is prominently displayed in Kaldorei culture, given their overall use of warglaives, but warglaives are the ceremonial weapons of Shadowhunter Trolls too, so who knows, maybe it's a tradition that's been passed down.

I'd quote Spellbreakers on the warglaives, but Spellbreakers in this case are three degrees removed from the traditions we're discussing, it's evident the warglaive custom has not originated in Quel'thalas.

[sighy]

it is a 100% elven thing, just like druidism is.. even though many of the other elven branches don't practice druidism it is an elven derived class.. as is magecraft. These are the 3 classes that come from them.. and they have their own unique version of the priest class.

This is a very ancient race remember, they've done it all before, and to insane levels. Don't limit them to a village tree hugger that only knows of green and good things.

Actually that was one of the unironic higlights of BfA for me, where they focussed on giving the AR druids an unique identity wholely separate from Cenarion Circle, with the Wickermonsters of Kul'tiras and dinosaurs of Zandalar (One of the few that can claim to be older than NEs) Makes me wish they would put some focus on making the racial organisations of classes look and feel unique again *glares at Blood Knights*

As far as the Illidari topic goes the Night Elves and especially T&M are not fond of them, in the slightest and the Illidari think they're better than everyone, because they "Sacrificed everything" and were legion fighting galaxybrains. So i'd imagine they would try and reconcile on an individual basis, if at all.

[draugril]

I think the writers don’t understand what players find interesting the most.

As a developer sure you may want to find out the afterlife of all the great heroes. But the community is heavily invested in its own camps. I’m pretty much only
Interested in Karl’thas that’s it, so I’m not feeling out in wonder at all the other shit cos it means nothing to my fave race.

My character has no character in the story, my race is the story representation of me and who I’ve been coaxed to side with but I get so litttle of it like the devs don’t know what we find most interesting.


Do they even follow their forum posts to see which topics get people most excited about or get them talking the most?

I can assure you fave races are amongst the highest by a good deal. Of the non complaint topics.

Cosmologies are very interesting to writers - rarely are they of interest to "readers." They need to remain a background element that influences the narrative behind the scenes. Once your cosmology hits the spotlight... there goes all mystery and depth that your universe had.

[ravenmoon]

But they aren't any "caster" demon hunters, which are like Warlocks.

Not necessarily. I said very much a like as well as very different, and try to show how they were alike and how they were different.

They are lvery much like warlocks in how they both use fel magic, both use demons - demon hunters, both esnalve, consume and partenr with demons, but the aim is to destroy them from the.. warlocks also use fel - that is a similarity and employ demons too, that is also similarities

It isn't incorrect ot make those comparisons.

- - - Updated - - -

Cosmologies are very interesting to writers - rarely are they of interest to "readers." They need to remain a background element that influences the narrative behind the scenes. Once your cosmology hits the spotlight... there goes all mystery and depth that your universe had.

Exactly.. LotR perfectly showed how this is done..

I dread for when they will actually decide to do a series on the cosmoslogy of LotR.

[Tanaria]

Not necessarily. I said very much a like as well as very different, and try to show how they were alike and how they were different.

They are lvery much like warlocks in how they both use fel magic, both use demons - demon hunters, both esnalve, consume and partenr with demons, but the aim is to destroy them from the.. warlocks also use fel - that is a similarity and employ demons too, that is also similarities

It isn't incorrect ot make those comparisons.

- - - Updated - - -

But Demon Hunters do their own thing. They don't "enslave" demons because that's a Warlock thing.
Powerful demons like the Shivarra worked with the Illidari because they saw something better in Illidan than Sargeras. Same with the Satyr.

Aside from that - Blood Elf Warlocks worked at Karabor, summoning and binding powerful demons to their will, in order to help train the Initiate Demon Hunters.

[ravenmoon]

But Demon Hunters do their own thing. They don't "enslave" demons because that's a Warlock thing.

They enslave and consume and destroy demons as well as work with any who would join their cause against the Legion... Pay attention to the Legion class quests, order hall and story please, also read Illidan the novel. They both very different yet very similar to warlocks - I repeat.

It's not hard, nor is it an incorrect statement. Don't argue for the sake of arguing or because you have a hard time accepting someone you normally oppose is right about something. That's off

[Tanaria]

They enslave and consume and destroy demons as well as work with any who would join their cause against the Legion... Pay attention to the Legion class quests, order hall and story please, also read Illidan the novel. They both very different yet very similar to warlocks - I repeat.

It's not hard, nor is it an incorrect statement. Don't argue for the sake of arguing or because you have a hard time accepting someone you normally oppose is right about something. That's off

Enslave and joining willingly are different things.

In the main, demons joined the Illidari willingly.

Those demons in chains are captured and used as target dummies for the Demon Hunter.

Now the Warlock emphasis is about real enslavement of Demons and using Demons.
Sunfury Blood Elven Warlocks at Karabor act like how you describe and work how you would think Illidari Warlocks would work. They aren't demon hunters, which is crucial, but they do work closely with the Demon Hunters.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Drops that stupid "Horde needs Ashenvale to have ressources", Orcs have lots of other means and other lands to exploit to get timber and food without aggressing the Night Elves and causing conflicts again and again, plus if they were this low and desperate to get ressources they wouldn't have been able of building new ships, batiments and war machines or substaining the conflict with the Alliance since they get no land from it in the long run and the little gains they manage to get from it should not really profit to the civilians of Durotar, and they would be have started suffering from hunger, shortage and economical ruin a long time ago.

[draugril]

Not necessarily. I said very much a like as well as very different, and try to show how they were alike and how they were different.

They are lvery much like warlocks in how they both use fel magic, both use demons - demon hunters, both esnalve, consume and partenr with demons, but the aim is to destroy them from the.. warlocks also use fel - that is a similarity and employ demons too, that is also similarities

It isn't incorrect ot make those comparisons.

- - - Updated - - -


Exactly.. LotR perfectly showed how this is done..

I dread for when they will actually decide to do a series on the cosmoslogy of LotR.

I wholeheartedly believe that the Silmarillion is unfilmable. It would be like trying to make a movie based on the Bible in its entirety.

[Magnagarde]

After the latest cinematic, I think the best outcome would be for Sargeras to return with Illidan in tow, riding a pitlord. We get to join the Light's Crusade, the Titan's Ordering, the Demonic Felfire or the Void's Infinity and set out to conquer the cosmos in the name of one of these powers.

Sargeras arrives, pulls his sword out of Azeroth and Azeroth is born out of the world as if someone performed a C-section, with the world shattering like a Kinder egg. The titans come to the rescue of Azeroth, seeing as they've been freed and they have a Power Ranger fistfight with Sargeras in space around the husk of Azeroth.

The Naaru beam in and Y'rel reads some knock-off Bible in the next cutscene, with the forces of the void's tentacle lords rising from Azeroth's floating crust as their remnants still remained there. We then pick our side, participate in the battle and are sent to our new homeworld by our new overlord(s) of choice.

[Terrorthatflapsinthenight]

Have Sylvanas and the Forsaken suffer real failures and defeats during Cataclysm, MoP and after, fr example them being the main Horde force in an earlier battle for Stormgarde but being defeated because of the dwarves and gnomes' military and technological support of Stromgarde and having founds counters to the Blight. They were clearly too favored and didn't suffer any real karma for the many atrocities they have commited ever since Vanilla.

The fact that the Alliance wasn't allowed to find counters to the Blight until BFA and of the Val'kyrs being such a "great" boost to the Forsaken despite having not been a game changer for the Scourge are just absurd.

[Xez]

Less about the NPC heroes and more about the world. I think a lot of what made early wow good was that your big heroes mostly hung out in the cities and, when you saw one outside a city on extremely rare occasion, you knew sh*t was going down. The -world- was the focus of World of Warcraft.

[ravenmoon]

Less about the NPC heroes and more about the world. I think a lot of what made early wow good was that your big heroes mostly hung out in the cities and, when you saw one outside a city on extremely rare occasion, you knew sh*t was going down. The -world- was the focus of World of Warcraft.

It's true, it's like the world doesn't exist, only the NPC heroes.. it was the opposite in classic. In classic, we definitely needed more of the NPC heroes, but i never thought I'd be pushing hard for more of hte world and races.

[Soon-TM]

Cosmologies are very interesting to writers - rarely are they of interest to "readers." They need to remain a background element that influences the narrative behind the scenes. Once your cosmology hits the spotlight... there goes all mystery and depth that your universe had.

Especially when you retcon what was supposed to be the definitive compendium of WoW lore almost as soon as you release it.

[Mace]

I mean lad, who isn't at this point.

It’s weird this. Wow lore use to excite so much in the RTS, what made them think nerfing races and spoiling things was a better way to go?

[lolmmofuture]

i would rewrite wow lore from wotlk onwards

[Biomega]

Especially when you retcon what was supposed to be the definitive compendium of WoW lore almost as soon as you release it.

Well that's easy to solve, they can just make another compendium that you can buy, with the updated information. And once they change that, you can buy the next one, too. And so on. Isn't that a neat system!

In all seriousness, though, I do agree: world building on large scales can be cool, but a lot of the time the smaller scales are more interesting because you can get more involved in it there.