New Leadership at Blizzard

[TheRevenantHero]

Shit, your avatar isn't just ironical, right?

What at all makes you even respond with that question? And why don't you answer MY question?

[BDu]

Let them be judged by the quality of the content that is to come . The change is obviously made to ease the ongoing tension , although i dont think is enough to make the staff put things aside and work on wow like all is well. I`m not one of those people who like to yell "wow is going to die" but if the next couple of patches including the next expansion are going to be as bad as the current , i doubt wow has much life left .

[bowlink]

Won't be long till this thread is locked.

[Chain Chungus]

So all this time some of the devs had gamergate brain worms? That explains the increase in toxicity over the past decade. The poison "trickles down" from the top after all.

It will be interesting to see how (or if) the game improves as a result of everything going on. In the meantime, FF14 is great so who knows if it even matters anymore.

[kukkamies]

Yeah, no, thats not how it works. Your side made up that rule, I'm free to abuse the shit out of it. If you have a problem with that, write a formal complaint to the republicans.

Made what rule? What to republicans? Are you just flaming here

[Bloomer]

Oh no, who will greet us with pride pins in Blizzcon now?

[Raisei]

The best thing is how so many people just keep wanting heads to roll, no matter if they are actually responsible or not. Ruining peoples lifes just for virtual kicks must feel really good. Farmer's markets must have run out of pitchforks and torches by now.

To be clear: The guilty people need to be caught, but many people on the internet are just happy to watch the company crash and burn no matter if there are 5 guilty people and 5000 innocent ones and that is neither justice nor does it promote any ideals, it promotes the idea that truth and justice do not matter in our age and the only judgement needed is in the Court of Puplic Opinion.

You know when that was last the case? In the 16th and 17th century, the time of the witch-hunts. Sure thought we had evolved since then, but the internet has brought it all back in force.

[kranur]

What a coincidence that a woman was the best fit to co-lead while a shitstorm regarding women getting unfair treatment is ongoing. World is just full of surprises. They should also make a statement and say that she was planned to take the spot before the shitshow.

But I guess desperately trying to make something of the image is more important.

But bow that we have fresh activision blood directing, let the dlc fiasco roll .. I always wanted to pay an extra fee when entering an instance.

[Kralljin]

What a coincidence that a woman was the best fit to co-lead while a shitstorm regarding women getting unfair treatment is ongoing. World is just full of surprises. They should also make a statement and say that she was planned to take the spot before the shitshow.

One can certainly assume that the dual leadership is a bit of a PR move, but Jen Oneal is anything but a "diversity pick".

From what i've heard, she worked herself up from QA (not the most reputable position in game development) to leading an entire studio.
And Vicarious visions at least knows how to treat franchises with respect.

But bow that we have fresh activision blood directing, let the dlc fiasco roll .. I always wanted to pay an extra fee when entering an instance.

At this point, almost anything is unfortunately an upgrade over the "remaining old guard" at Blizzard.

Either these people were unable to work efficiently with Kotick looking over their shoulder or they simply became arrogant and lazy over past successes, but what Blizzard has been putting out in the last few years is nothing one should be proud of.

[Goatfish]

Rationally looking at it, one one had you have Blizzard employees walking out, women left and right talking out about their traumatic experiences at Blizzard, Chris Metzens own wife stating she got out of Blizzard with PTSD and being about to form a union because the working conditions are so toxic and horrible. On the other hand you have Bush Torture Lady saying nothing happened, everything is fine.

If under this circumstances your conclusion is to side with the accused, you probably have a bias. And probably are a virgin or somebody with a record.

The rational stance is actually to not take a side until both sides have submitted viewable evidence and been reviewed in court. The tribalist stance is to pick sides and decide winners in public discourse regardless of official evidence. It's the duty of the prosecution to show guilt, not the duty of the accused to prove innocence. What you are going for is similar to Cardassian Court from Star Trek DS9:

"On Cardassia, the verdict is always known before the trial begins. And it's always the same."
"In that case, why bother with a trial at all?"
"Because the people demand it. They enjoy watching justice triumph over evil every time. They find it comforting."
– Gul Dukat and Commander Benjamin Sisko, 2370 ("The Maquis, Part II")

for good reason. I'm not seeing the issue!

Nice back peddle from: "it's going to a company that needs the government to intervene into it's business practices." Spoken as if the government doesn't constantly intervene in every official company in the US. The reasoning for your argument was invalid, not necessarily that companies don't need regulation.

What the hell does the article you linked have to do with the subject at hand? That is the biggest reach i have seen in forever.

It's not at all a reach. The content doesn't matter, it's instead the point that 2 year long investigations on crimes supposedly going on for over a decade can still turn up false results, even resulting in false convictions. It's the same length of investigation over roughly the same timespan of potential events. I could bring up a much more recent case where someone being convicted in the court of public opinion bled into our justice system, but I'd rather not get on that case in this thread. The point stands.

Never would I have imagined I would be on gaming forums explaining why "guilty until proven innocent" is a bad mindset.

[DingDongKing]

One can certainly assume that the dual leadership is a bit of a PR move, but Jen Oneal is anything but a "diversity pick".

From what i've heard, she worked herself up from QA (not the most reputable position in game development) to leading an entire studio.
And Vicarious visions at least knows how to treat franchises with respect.

At this point, almost anything is unfortunately an upgrade over the "remaining old guard" at Blizzard.

Either these people were unable to work efficiently with Kotick looking over their shoulder or they simply became arrogant and lazy over past successes, but what Blizzard has been putting out in the last few years is nothing one should be proud of.

Jen O’Neal is super capable and so is Ybarra.

People who want to see this as some PR move will do so even Jen was part of a world first mythic raiding team. They’d say, ‘oh she was their diversity member in the team’. There’s always an excuse.

The rational stance is actually to not take a side until both sides have submitted viewable evidence and been reviewed in court. The tribalist stance is to pick sides and decide winners in public discourse regardless of official evidence. It's the duty of the prosecution to show guilt, not the duty of the accused to prove innocence. What you are going for is similar to Cardassian Court from Star Trek DS9:




Nice back peddle from: "it's going to a company that needs the government to intervene into it's business practices." Spoken as if the government doesn't constantly intervene in every official company in the US. The reasoning for your argument was invalid, not necessarily that companies don't need regulation.



It's not at all a reach. The content doesn't matter, it's instead the point that 2 year long investigations on crimes supposedly going on for over a decade can still turn up false results, even resulting in false convictions. It's the same length of investigation over roughly the same timespan of potential events. I could bring up a much more recent case where someone being convicted in the court of public opinion bled into our justice system, but I'd rather not get on that case in this thread. The point stands.

Never would I have imagined I would be on gaming forums explaining why "guilty until proven innocent" is a bad mindset.

Yep, because Blizzard are going to go court with the intention to reverse their own decision to fire Alex, after their own investigation concluded that he’d been harassing women. Yep, that makes sense.

[MoanaLisa]

One can certainly assume that the dual leadership is a bit of a PR move, but Jen Oneal is anything but a "diversity pick".

From what i've heard, she worked herself up from QA (not the most reputable position in game development) to leading an entire studio.
And Vicarious visions at least knows how to treat franchises with respect.

She has demonstrated her competence outside and inside the company. She will help with the lawsuit. She and Ybarra have a decent shot at making inroads to Blizzard's current culture. Most of the Old Guard is gone. The few that are left are likely contemplating their own problems and wondering just what is about to come out. They won't be a barrier to change.

She's smart and is a good pick. The pairing at the top has some precedent as there was a management team of three when Morhaime shuffled off.

[DingDongKing]

She has demonstrated her competence outside and inside the company. She will help with the lawsuit. She and Ybarra have a decent shot at making inroads to Blizzard's current culture. Most of the Old Guard is gone. The few that are left are likely contemplating their own problems and wondering just what is about to come out. They won't be a barrier to change.

She's smart and is a good pick. The pairing at the top has some precedent as there was a management team of three when Morhaime shuffled off.

Yeah, but Woke SJW Cancel Culture Witchhunt? I mean, come on.

[Nimin]

Because it isn't a strawman, and you know it, no matter the amount of alt right tropes you can spit out.

Only one: quote where it was said that a woman can't be a leader.

I'll be waiting. You strawmanner.

[sam86]

don't care because since everyone has memory of goldfish, activision controls everything, it is literally why bungie got fed and left since activision doesn't understand anything but master and slaves relations

[Nimin]

It doesn't matter what the reasoning is. Being sexist is always disgusting. Would you likewise defend a man who spouted degrading comments about women but had "healthy" relationships with some women?

Well said. Surprisingly, but well said.

The rational stance is actually to not take a side until both sides have submitted viewable evidence and been reviewed in court. The tribalist stance is to pick sides and decide winners in public discourse regardless of official evidence. It's the duty of the prosecution to show guilt, not the duty of the accused to prove innocence. What you are going for is similar to Cardassian Court from Star Trek DS9:

Also greatly said.

[Gaidax]

This thread went 0 to Cringe very fast.

[Hastis]

from someone who cant lead to 2 persons who cant lead xd NOCHANGES

[DingDongKing]

from someone who cant lead to 2 persons who cant lead xd NOCHANGES

Based on what information can they not lead? If anything, they've had more experience as leaders than JAB did.

This thread went 0 to Cringe very fast.

It's because MMO-C is full of toxic incels.

[Diaphin]

The rational stance is actually to not take a side until both sides have submitted viewable evidence and been reviewed in court. The tribalist stance is to pick sides and decide winners in public discourse regardless of official evidence. It's the duty of the prosecution to show guilt, not the duty of the accused to prove innocence. What you are going for is similar to Cardassian Court from Star Trek DS9:

I don't watch Star Trek. I have a girlfriend, so I don't know who any of that characters or a cardassian court is.

And again, the employees on Blizzard are all coming forward with their storys of harassment and discrimination, including men, and they currently about to form an union. If you are not some cringeworthy incel fascist who believes in conspiracy theories surrounding all theories outside of the police one, they just defend the white race from the blackoids in their opinion after all, that should tell you something. For the record, I don't believe that you are not. I believe you are the kind of person who went apeshit over a youtube talking about feminism and video games back in 2016.

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It's because MMO-C is full of toxic incels.

They should finally ban those, maybe the side would get more female traffick then. I already feel kinda creeped out knowing that here are so many incels who probably jerk off while replying to users they assume to be female.

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What at all makes you even respond with that question? And why don't you answer MY question?

Then the answer is because it is not sexist because from context for everyone who isn't socially inept on the level of incels, and alone from the attempts at being Incels I already know the people here regularily beaten up in school and on their work at McDonalds, its clear that Roux is replying to a specific group of white men. You don't feel insulted because you are a white men, you feel insulted because you are a gamergate dudebro who femoids don't like to talk to. I can confirm that thesis.

Then there is also the context that all women live in a world where men regularily harass, discriminate against, belittle and opress women and in which men disproportionally commit actions of violence, rape and murder against women for gendered reasons. So there are rational reasons for men to be frustrated at male behavior, especially toxic male behavior and call out men for that, because its on them to fix their gender which currently is responsible for allmost all crime, rape and murder in society while having higher suicide rates and performing academically worse despite being traditionally favored by the law and to this day being favored by tradition. You don't get to be a triggered special snowflake as somebody who never experienced discrimination, racism or sexism in his entire life. No, women don't dating assholes is not sexism and it is not some form of systemic oppression.

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Made what rule? What to republicans? Are you just flaming here

The "I have a black/female/whatever group friend" rule. Your side made it up, you made it an argument. So I'm entitled to use it, so again, I can't be misandrist, I have male friends. In actuality, I even have some male heritage, my father was one.