Anyone left of the OG WC1-2-3 and WoW TBC WolK crew?

[vizzle]

Nah I mean the worst. It was at its easiest and every raid tier except for Ulduar was average or outright bad.

Such a cool and unique counter culture subversive opinion; you must be really really smart! How could someone hate the expansion most people love so much; he must be so deep!

Your smiley face and join date in the middle of WotLK on WoW's biggest forum at the time give it away. Maybe it's time to not try so hard on having a radical opinion about a video game. You're surprising no one and hopefully no one else gives this any thought.

[Zantera]

Such a cool and unique counter culture subversive opinion; you must be really really smart! How could someone hate the expansion most people love so much; he must be so deep!

Your smiley face and join date in the middle of WotLK on WoW's biggest forum at the time give it away. Maybe it's time to not try so hard on having a radical opinion about a video game. You're surprising no one and hopefully no one else gives this any thought.

Thing is i'm not even trying hard to have a controversial opinion. I loved Ulduar but ICC was okay at best and i HATED the Naxx and Trial tiers. For me the worst expansion personally is between Wotlk and WoD and WoD had better dungeons and raids (overall) but Wotlk was better in a few other areas. Honestly it's a toss up for me.

Instead of going around attacking others for their opinions, maybe you can provide some quality insight into what you actually think?

[Disxx]

Thing is i'm not even trying hard to have a controversial opinion. I loved Ulduar but ICC was okay at best and i HATED the Naxx and Trial tiers. For me the worst expansion personally is between Wotlk and WoD and WoD had better dungeons and raids (overall) but Wotlk was better in a few other areas. Honestly it's a toss up for me.

Instead of going around attacking others for their opinions, maybe you can provide some quality insight into what you actually think?

WotLK was starting point for modern wow raiding, it had 10m and 25m raids, then it had 10m/25m with HM encounters and it ended with 10m/25m with Normal + HC modes. Currently, we have the same with Mithyc mode added. In reality, TBC was the last WoW expansion where previous raids were somewhat important for the whole expansion - Gruul for Spine trinket. Wrath made previous raid tiers obsolete and people had to focus on the current tier with multiple difficulties. Wrath made WoW more casual friendly, yet that was expansion where I was most bored and from Cata I started casual mode as today and can't be arsed to go seriously on raids. TBC and Classic for some reason were different. They were easy, yet entering in multiple raids made it easier to handle and I didn't burn so much as I did with Wrath raids. Have to say Achievements made some improvements, yet I am a person who doesn't like them.

[ArenaDk]

Such a cool and unique counter culture subversive opinion; you must be really really smart! How could someone hate the expansion most people love so much; he must be so deep!

Your smiley face and join date in the middle of WotLK on WoW's biggest forum at the time give it away. Maybe it's time to not try so hard on having a radical opinion about a video game. You're surprising no one and hopefully no one else gives this any thought.

Most people idolize woltk because its were they started playing / got into endgame content. if you would rate it objectivly you would have to agree that the raids were wonky, with Ulduar and Icc being the only strong ones.

It had TONS of timegating , to a point that blizzard would be burned down today for it.

pvp was a mess with pve items running rampant and Dks being Dks

Dungeons were faceroll as hell

and 2 raids were just copy paste from classic xD

Cash shop got introduced

and many more things that get newer expansions critized for. Hey its okay to like it, but objectivly woltk is the poster child of almost every thing people love to hate blizzard for. Say one bad thing about a expansion and I assure you you also find it in woltk or a lack of anything in its place to compare it to, as woltk in the base was hollow of content

[Zantera]

Most people idolize woltk because its were they started playing / got into endgame content. if you would rate it objectivly you would have to agree that the raids were wonky, with Ulduar and Icc being the only strong ones.

It had TONS of timegating , to a point that blizzard would be burned down today for it.

pvp was a mess with pve items running rampant and Dks being Dks

Dungeons were faceroll as hell

Cash shop got introduced

and many more things that get newer expansions critized for. Hey its okay to like it, but objectivly woltk is the poster child of almost every thing people love to hate blizzard for. Say one bad thing about a expansion and I assure you you also find it in woltk or a lack of anything in its place to compare it to, as woltk in the base was hollow of content

I agree, also you could argue LFR which made people hate Cata (and LFR has been very controversial ever since) had its roots in the LFD that was added in Wotlk. I don't mind LFD personally but I've seen people on the "Queing for content ruined the game" train who also love Wotlk.

[Orby]

Yeah, lets burn down the whole team because of few jerks. Yay for twitter justice!

how did you come to that conclusion through my reply? Thats some mighty strawman you building there.

[ArenaDk]

I agree, also you could argue LFR which made people hate Cata (and LFR has been very controversial ever since) had its roots in the LFD that was added in Wotlk. I don't mind LFD personally but I've seen people on the "Queing for content ruined the game" train who also love Wotlk.

I love lfr and lfd for one thing. It showed even every idiot that the wow community isnt one block but that there are hundreds of types of players. Seeing how first one side complained dungeons are to hard and later wanted to gate keep raids by hating on lfr. Well its just my speculation, but I feel like people who like classic tbc and woltk are often player who enjoy gate keeping content to have some false prestige, but need the content to be easy enough so they can do it themselfs.

[Zantera]

I love lfr and lfd for one thing. It showed even every idiot that the wow community isnt one block but that there are hundreds of types of players. Seeing how first one side complained dungeons are to hard and later wanted to gate keep raids by hating on lfr. Well its just my speculation, but I feel like people who like classic tbc and woltk are often player who enjoy gate keeping content to have some false prestige, but need the content to be easy enough so they can do it themselfs.

Yeah I don't think it's a bad thing that you have an easier form of content easier accessible, the lines only blur for me with something like Legion where titanforging was so broken that people getting hc/mythic equivalent gear from doing LFR made you feel a bit cheated in a sense. But yeah both LFD and LFR have gotten a lot of criticism from the community though.

When I think back to the good memories of leveling my first char and doing Shadowfang Keep for example, what I think back about with fondness isn't the hour or so that it took to get there from Wetlands and summoning the group, but actually running the dungeon itself. Complaining that there is a LFD to me is a bit like complaining about having the option of taking the bus to work instead of being forced to walk.

[ArenaDk]

Yeah I don't think it's a bad thing that you have an easier form of content easier accessible, the lines only blur for me with something like Legion where titanforging was so broken that people getting hc/mythic equivalent gear from doing LFR made you feel a bit cheated in a sense. But yeah both LFD and LFR have gotten a lot of criticism from the community though.

When I think back to the good memories of leveling my first char and doing Shadowfang Keep for example, what I think back about with fondness isn't the hour or so that it took to get there from Wetlands and summoning the group, but actually running the dungeon itself. Complaining that there is a LFD to me is a bit like complaining about having the option of taking the bus to work instead of being forced to walk.

I feel you there in some way, even though Legion was a time were I was playing 99% pvp so titan forge didnt matter much to me. But I think it was a nice way to give some casuals also acess to strong items, it only got wonky when comparing a over lucky casual to a really unlucky raider. But for the peace of mind its better to be gone now.

When I raided though item level was only important to kill a boss, mythic/heroic looking gear, mounts and special trinkets/ weapons were what was more important as a reward xD who cares if someone has a 10 gs higher weapon, if I rock the endboss weapon in highest difficultiy.

And yeah doing the dungeons > walking. I cant recall any amazing memeory from walking to a dungeon , but lots of things that happend while running them ( weirdly, most fond memeroys are from cata dungeons )

[Disxx]

I love lfr and lfd for one thing. It showed even every idiot that the wow community isnt one block but that there are hundreds of types of players. Seeing how first one side complained dungeons are to hard and later wanted to gate keep raids by hating on lfr. Well its just my speculation, but I feel like people who like classic tbc and woltk are often player who enjoy gate keeping content to have some false prestige, but need the content to be easy enough so they can do it themselfs.

For everyone it's different. For some yes, for me Classic is best, and then TBC is for simplicity. No additional systems, world, dungeons, raids, PVP. Most that were in Vanilla and then a little bit less in TBC and what was lost completely with Wrath is the flow of the game. You could stop playing for some time, then come back ( Like I did in Classic) after few months. I didn't feel completely stranded, I had MC / PVP gear, I could easily hop again in MC and BWL and progress till Naxx. I could experience the whole game. With the end of TBC ( Magister's Terrace) and with Wrath we got so many options to skip content that in the end, my experience was limited. What is completely ruined with BfA and SL is that back then you knew rules for expansion and could progress, take a break and come back and the rules would be the same. Now each patch feels like something completely new. Figured out what to do in P1 and P2 of WoD, and then at the end, they introduced corruption. Same with SL, the first phase was one thing, now with 9.1 they added new mechanics and I have to relearn the game, that's not hard but I am cba to do that and just quit.

For me, everything from Wrath / Cata till today is that there are too many systems. Make content ( raids, dungeons, quests, world mobs ) hard. But leave game core as it is, changing too many rules changes too much how the game is played and it turns from fun to struggle.

[Venziir]

I agree, also you could argue LFR which made people hate Cata (and LFR has been very controversial ever since) had its roots in the LFD that was added in Wotlk. I don't mind LFD personally but I've seen people on the "Queing for content ruined the game" train who also love Wotlk.

Cata made people hate Cata. Sure, people "hated" LFR; but it was that particular patch that saw the first sub rise in all of Cataclysm.

[VinceVega]

Meh. They are directly responsible for what Blizz has become and for what happen to their employees.

Good riddance.

Also i think people tend to "rosetint" how good the games habe been. Very good for the time. But can the devs from back then still make good games for todays standarts?
We don't know. None of them really made anything after blizz expect for Ghostcrawler at riot i think.

[Deferionus]

Sorry, you mean the greatest? When WoW was at its absolute peak.

Saying WoW was at its peak is another way of saying "It was all downhill from here." TBC best expac - it caused all the growth.

[ArenaDk]

Cata made people hate Cata. Sure, people "hated" LFR; but it was that particular patch that saw the first sub rise in all of Cataclysm.

But what did people hate about cata that wasnt there before ? And dont start with the world revamp as the big reason. Thats just an excuse for most because they cant find something to critize that wouldnt also be said against the previous versions

[Saltysquidoon]

Someone who was an OG from WCI would have been at the company for near 30 years if they were still around, I think the only ones who had been working there that long were the 'old guard' everyone knew.

[darklogrus]

Wasn't Ions first designed raid encounter ToC?

[Elias1337]

wrath was a great expansion not sure what you talkin about thats hwere i first saw jaina and fell in love with her as my favorite lore character shes such a good waifu

Oh really? LFG? Difficulty levels? Faceroll dungeons? Welfare gear? People have such short memory when comes to WOTLK. WOTLK do not belong into same bascket as W3, Vannila and TBC. It was expansion what launched mass cuttering to casual audience which ruined game for huge amounth of players.

[Biomega]

I played all the old WCs and WoW from Vanilla on, and I don't think they were the best ever. WC3 was clearly the best in the series, but vastly inferior to StarCraft as an RTS; and WoW in Vanilla/TBC/WotLK can't hold a candle to some of the later expansions, like MoP or Legion.

Don't get me wrong, BFA and SL were pretty shit - but I'm all for progress and innovation, not for nostalgia goggles. Things were okay at the time, but I'm not letting the past delude me into thinking that was the pinnacle of what the game could ever be.

[Disxx]

Wasn't Ions first designed raid encounter ToC?

He worked on the Faction Champion encounter. And have to say, that was one of the most memorable raid encounters from that time.

[Daronokk]

The old crew seems to have been the problem

Can people stop this retarded hyperbole narrative? Just because one person did some bad doesn't mean the entire old Blizzard team did.

But lots of people are making it sound like that. And it's factually wrong. It's textbook discrimination. Stop the bullshit. Name the accused but don't blame the rest along with it.