1. #4881
    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    That would at least make sense. He has to start his plans at some point since we already ended them.
    I had a thought on this:
    • What we fought in The End Time dungeon was not Murozond himself, but a "temporal echo" from an unknown point in the timeline. A diversionary tactic to make us think he'd been beaten. If this was the case, he would've fooled even Nozdormu. This could also mean that Murozond was protected from the diminishing of the Aspects' powers after Deathwing was slain.
    • Murozond could also exist concurrently in two different points: at The End Time dungeon, and at his currently-unknown location. With his power split (perhaps by necessity of needing to be in two places at once), that could explain why he was "weak" in the aforementioned dungeon.


    I haven't thought out the entirety of a Time-themed expansion with Murozond as the antagonist. Some points though:
    • Zovaal wants to rule reality. Murozond wants to destroy it all. He'd rather not exist than face his fate.
    • The Infinite Dragonflight would be assaulting many locations across Azeroth, and players would be fighting back ala Legion-style assaults.
    • These assaults would not only feature Infinite Dragonflight mobs (with updated models too), but also time-variants of familiar faces.
    • The Caverns of Time would be a key location in the expansion, and we may see the Chronal Spire as well.
    • In one big patch, we would visit an alternate Azeroth where many things are different. Most noticeable of all is that the super-continent of Kalimdor would be intact.
    • When we take the fight to Murozond directly, we may have help from others we have assisted in the past; Outland, AU Draenor, the Shadowlands, and so on. Think of it as "calling in a lot of favours".
    • Murozond may have created a predestination paradox; in trying to avert his fate, he will actually cause it. So even though we will win in the end of this would-be expansion, he may escape and try to screw us over in the past, hence our adventure into The End Time dungeon. But we all know how that turns out!


    It would be an interesting theme for an expansion, but it would also have to be done right. WoD used time as a theme, but it wasn't well received. On that: if we ever go back to AU Draenor (perhaps to fight Yrel on her home turf in a Shattrath raid?), I'd like to see the sites of the Alliance and Horde garrisons be smoking ruins. Call it a nod to the disdain most of the playerbase had for them.


    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Assuming Arthas is trapped in Kingsmourne I predict a storyline where we have to venture into the sword somehow to defeat whatever chains Anduin, and possibly even Arthas. Most likely in the form of a raid mechanic.
    That sounds cool. Like a Dreamwalker/Sethraliss type fight?
    Last edited by Xorzor; 2021-08-05 at 12:57 PM.

  2. #4882
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    Hopefully next week will clarify whether we are "done" in the Maw. That alone should be interesting for the story forwards. Has the Jailer abandoned the Maw, or does he still have direct control over it, or are there even lieutenants that are commanding his armies for him.

    For Arthas I guess a big question now would be whether the soul share the Jailer used IS Arthas, whether it's just a part or even if the rest of Arthas is jailed somewhere else.
    Assuming Arthas is trapped in Kingsmourne I predict a storyline where we have to venture into the sword somehow to defeat whatever chains Anduin, and possibly even Arthas. Most likely in the form of a raid mechanic.
    Aren't we missing 2 chapters till the end of story? I was really expecting them to announce something regarding 9.2 on Gamescom....
    Quote Originally Posted by Firedemon View Post
    No. On these forums any updates mean an expansion hint.
    Wrathin comes back? Dragon expansion clearly!
    LK part of a quest? Wotlk 2 clearly!
    Sylvanas working with a death master? Shadowlands clearly!

    At the point we're headed for Wrath of the Shdowlands Dragon Isles Lich and tinkers.

  3. #4883
    The Insane Raetary's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tiradon View Post
    Aren't we missing 2 chapters till the end of story? I was really expecting them to announce something regarding 9.2 on Gamescom....
    Only the last chapter is missing, which we get next week.

    As for gamescom, Blizzard is not on any official note regarding participators and at this point they are very much not attending.


    Formerly known as Arafal

  4. #4884
    Quote Originally Posted by Tiradon View Post
    Aren't we missing 2 chapters till the end of story? I was really expecting them to announce something regarding 9.2 on Gamescom....
    There is only one more covenant questline left. In total there were 6, one that freed the Primus, then one for each covenant, and now the final one that was not publicly tested.
    We know from datamining that there is an in-game cutscene in Korthia that includes Anduin in some fashion, so we will only have to wait and see.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  5. #4885
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    There is only one more covenant questline left. In total there were 6, one that freed the Primus, then one for each covenant, and now the final one that was not publicly tested.
    We know from datamining that there is an in-game cutscene in Korthia that includes Anduin in some fashion, so we will only have to wait and see.
    Also Necrolord didn't recreated their sigil in 'their' questline. Don't know about Kyrian, will try it today, cause sadly timewalking thing was fixed (still got 2x 50-60 in 4 hours!).

  6. #4886
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Also Necrolord didn't recreated their sigil in 'their' questline. Don't know about Kyrian, will try it today, cause sadly timewalking thing was fixed (still got 2x 50-60 in 4 hours!).
    I just reread some of the dialogue. The Primus does seem to specifically mention reforging the sigil and giving it to Draka. I guess the only difference is that unlike the other covenants we didnt physically see the sigil.

    Regardless that would still likely leave Zovaal/The Arbiters sigil to be reforged, which might be part of the 9.2 questline.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  7. #4887
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I just reread some of the dialogue. The Primus does seem to specifically mention reforging the sigil and giving it to Draka. I guess the only difference is that unlike the other covenants we didnt physically see the sigil.

    Regardless that would still likely leave Zovaal/The Arbiters sigil to be reforged, which might be part of the 9.2 questline.
    My thoughts exactly, this might be the tricky bit and worth a questline

  8. #4888
    Quote Originally Posted by Fahrad Wagner View Post
    My thoughts exactly, this might be the tricky bit and worth a questline
    I suppose that is also where the question of whatever is happening in the Maw comes up. Zovaal does unquestionably look like the Maw, and the default setting for Oribos is sending souls there instead, so I suppose reforging what I then assume to be the Maw sigil to either be as easy as having the Primus find whatever altar exists in Torghast, all the way to finding a failsafe left behind by the first ones.

    X.2 patches are with only two exceptions about dealing with a secondary threat. My initial guesses were the Drust, but in hindsight I wonder if it might be the Devourers instead. In this case 9.2 would take place somewhere in the in-between, wherever the Devourer nest is. Wherever the First ones had their failsafe mechanisms does seem to be a fitting place to have a race of beings that feed on Anima.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  9. #4889
    Quote Originally Posted by Xorzor View Post
    I had a thought on this:
    • What we fought in The End Time dungeon was not Murozond himself, but a "temporal echo" from an unknown point in the timeline. A diversionary tactic to make us think he'd been beaten. If this was the case, he would've fooled even Nozdormu. This could also mean that Murozond was protected from the diminishing of the Aspects' powers after Deathwing was slain.
    • Murozond could also exist concurrently in two different points: at The End Time dungeon, and at his currently-unknown location. With his power split (perhaps by necessity of needing to be in two places at once), that could explain why he was "weak" in the aforementioned dungeon.
    Neither of those make sense. Nozdormu knows how he dies and confirmed that this was his fated death at a point where he still had his powers, and it is an explicit part of his nature that he has no temporal copies. He can still exist multiple times in the same spot (he does just that during said fight, after all), but each version will be at a different point in his personal history.

    WoD used time as a theme
    No, it didn't. It used time travel as a plot vehicle, nothing more. Nothing in the story was about time travel, and there was no examination of how it works, we only got to see the aftermath of it being done.

  10. #4890
    Quote Originally Posted by Pheraz View Post
    I fear the next week we'll see an in-game cinematic with all covenants united in a room with Sylvanas and accusing her for "her crimes"...
    Then there is an a**pull to "oh Sylvanas you were right?!? And thanks for shooting that arrow btw" and she'll get full high elf reuniting with her sisters to create a new high elve era.
    I'm inclined to believe that they will pull some random shit about her having shared in the powers of the maw and she is magically able to manifest the 5th sigil or will be able to in the future.
    Edit: Maybe someone needs to be sacrificed by being bound to the maw and she will take that "fall" as part of her redemption. Either way I have a feeling she will be involved in the future of the maw.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Did you forget this week? We were in that room and only took Uther's.
    If this wasn't the umptenth moment this patch where we did something utterly moronic I would be so mad about that, but since it has become par for the course I can just shake my head in disbelief. Why on earth did we leave those there? Who knows what kind of shit he can do with them. Is the canon way to RP a character in WoW to be an orc warrior with only 1.5 braincells?
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-08-05 at 04:45 PM.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  11. #4891
    Pandaren Monk AngerFork's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    Did you forget this week? We were in that room and only took Uther's.
    Quote Originally Posted by Arafal View Post
    If they really wanted to include the other Frostmourne fragments into the story, they would've done so this week.
    As we JUST entered the exact place those souls were held, and we left them all there (for some reason) and just took Uthers with us.
    Quoting both of these as I have the same response to each.

    Story-wise, we only had a reason to take that one. We could have saved the others, but we were specifically on a mission for Uther's soul fragment. But remember that we also story-wise don't fully know what happened to Sylvanas yet. We as players know, but our characters do not. I see a pretty decent chance that when we see what happened to Sylvanas as well as what Uther went through and became, we'll see some logic in grabbing a few more of those souls to try to fix others. Is Arthas in a similar area? Who else is in there? Possibly other members of the Forsaken? Seeing how a lost soul fragment can change someone as it did her may well lead us down the next story path.

    The reveal of who she has become I suspect will have further consequences, not just for us or her, but for the universe as a whole.

  12. #4892
    If Bolvar's visions and the memories of the Runecarver are canon then we certainly know that the Jailer uses these shards to make big bad weapons.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  13. #4893
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    Quoting both of these as I have the same response to each.

    Story-wise, we only had a reason to take that one. We could have saved the others, but we were specifically on a mission for Uther's soul fragment. But remember that we also story-wise don't fully know what happened to Sylvanas yet. We as players know, but our characters do not. I see a pretty decent chance that when we see what happened to Sylvanas as well as what Uther went through and became, we'll see some logic in grabbing a few more of those souls to try to fix others. Is Arthas in a similar area? Who else is in there? Possibly other members of the Forsaken? Seeing how a lost soul fragment can change someone as it did her may well lead us down the next story path.

    The reveal of who she has become I suspect will have further consequences, not just for us or her, but for the universe as a whole.
    It still makes no sense to search for it. We know where it is.

  14. #4894
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    For every person that thinks the lack of flying is killing the game there is another that hoped Blizzard will double down on it to really reap the benefits.
    For every player that thinks gearing is awful because of complicated systems there is another that loves more RPG systems.
    For every expansion layer that hates overworld content there is another that loves it.
    Some demands are in conflict, even when they're not competing over development resources. But there are also still ideas that are unequivocally popular or unpopular as well, it's not like all of this is zero sum.

  15. #4895
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Some demands are in conflict, even when they're not competing over development resources. But there are also still ideas that are unequivocally popular or unpopular as well, it's not like all of this is zero sum.
    It's not just player vs. player either, though. A popular idea may not be practical or directly in conflict with development goals.

  16. #4896
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivarr View Post
    Some demands are in conflict, even when they're not competing over development resources. But there are also still ideas that are unequivocally popular or unpopular as well, it's not like all of this is zero sum.
    There are definitely things everyone agrees on. Raids are one of those things that are just generally accepted as something players want, even if just to farm old ones for cosmetics.
    Even beyond that though, the things players agree on are few and far between, especially when you get into the minutae. Better zones is one, but does that mean more ground content or less? Does better non-raid, non-M+ progression mean more items from vendors or higher ilvl from world quests and dailies? Should casual get Mythic gear slowly or at all?

    And of course there are the contentious issues. "Borrowed" power is one, some people want it gone completely, some want it refined, and some don't realize that tier set abilities were removed for a reason.
    Just because players can generally agree on not getting Azerite gear back doesnt mean there is actually a significant consensus on what that means.


    The way I see it the only way to make the game "better" is for Blizzard to stick to their guns. Which would inecitably mean annoying a significant portion of the playerbase. If they make the game more casual it will affect the hardcore players, if they make a return to RPG elements they will incur complaints of grinding. If they do like I want and revamp flying so it isnt such a powerful tool then they will annoy the players that have been complaining since WoD about not being able to skip all the ground content, while if they go back to flying being available immediately they will annoy players like me tht enjoy the massivfe strides they have taken since then in making zones better.
    The world revamp dream will never die!

  17. #4897
    Quote Originally Posted by Sondrelk View Post
    I suppose that is also where the question of whatever is happening in the Maw comes up. Zovaal does unquestionably look like the Maw, and the default setting for Oribos is sending souls there instead, so I suppose reforging what I then assume to be the Maw sigil to either be as easy as having the Primus find whatever altar exists in Torghast, all the way to finding a failsafe left behind by the first ones.

    X.2 patches are with only two exceptions about dealing with a secondary threat. My initial guesses were the Drust, but in hindsight I wonder if it might be the Devourers instead. In this case 9.2 would take place somewhere in the in-between, wherever the Devourer nest is. Wherever the First ones had their failsafe mechanisms does seem to be a fitting place to have a race of beings that feed on Anima.
    Yeah, it looks like place that become Maw was original afterlife for everybody and Arbiter + Oribos are constructs that manually stop stream of souls and send them in different directions.

  18. #4898
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    Quote Originally Posted by huth View Post
    It still makes no sense to search for it. We know where it is.
    We know where one area is that he keeps special souls that happened to have Uther's soul fragment. We don't know that is the only spot where he keeps special souls, nor did we really explore that much of that area. There could be a lot more that we missed.

    Even if that turns out to be the only spot, we still don't know where the other pieces are. If Arthas' soul fragment taken by Frostmourne is in there, that doesn't mean we know where in the Maw the rest of him is, or even if it is still recoverable. There's still plenty to hunt for & plenty more to recover should we so choose.

  19. #4899
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracullus View Post
    Yeah, it looks like place that become Maw was original afterlife for everybody and Arbiter + Oribos are constructs that manually stop stream of souls and send them in different directions.
    I think the original design was even simpler, it was just another plane of existence that exists as another parallel layer like the dream. I mean souls don't go straight to the shadowlands proper, they go there after Kyrian's pick them up. Afaik they didn't remove the shadowlands as part of shamanism and death knight lore where creatures roam and you can find the spirits of the deceased, while it still being like Azeroth. Normally they just linger where their corpse was, as we've seen countless times. Maybe there is a reason for ordering it other than the self-serving accumulation of anima, but it feels like the whole shadowlands thing was just a giant redistribution scheme, take anima from the home worlds and collect it in other places to create "afterlives". The whole idea that they use their exp (anima) accumulated during their lives and form new bodies with it seems weird in the first place. Is that something that only happens in the 4 special places that are part of the machine of death? What about the other places where souls are send? What happens to stripped souls over time? Do they exist in perpetuity in that form or do they eventually fade into nothingness like the failed ones in the maw/revendreth?

    Some of it was probably just not thought through, like the representation of the stream of souls in oribos as we see it ingame and the role of Kyrians as described in quests and in lore. The whole expansion is essentially just the fault of Kyrians being retards, because they keep shipping souls to the maw, and they STILL haven't stopped doing that.
    Last edited by Cosmic Janitor; 2021-08-05 at 09:29 PM.
    You are welcome, Metzen. I hope you won't fuck up my underground expansion idea.

  20. #4900
    Quote Originally Posted by AngerFork View Post
    We know where one area is that he keeps special souls that happened to have Uther's soul fragment. We don't know that is the only spot where he keeps special souls, nor did we really explore that much of that area. There could be a lot more that we missed.

    Even if that turns out to be the only spot, we still don't know where the other pieces are. If Arthas' soul fragment taken by Frostmourne is in there, that doesn't mean we know where in the Maw the rest of him is, or even if it is still recoverable. There's still plenty to hunt for & plenty more to recover should we so choose.
    Frostmourne didn't take a fragment of Arthas' soul. It took the whole thing. I have my doubts Arthas is going to play any significant role anyway. As for the room, as far as we can tell all significant souls are present there.

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