A decent MMO plagued by some serious problems that make it unplayable in the long run

[Katchii]

People play for different reasons and have different goals. It's just the way it is. That's true in any MMO, especially larger ones with extremely broad content types, as XIV does in great amounts.

Questioning or shaming those goals isn't going to help anything. It doesn't make the game better, or bring in more players. The game doesn't need us to take up the shield and defend some misplaced ideals that we've created around it.

Just let people play it how they want. Or to not play it at all. It's fine either way.

Exactly this^

[Echo of Soul]

In the mind of a WoW player, because they've been conditioned to do that.

Why should anyone care if players who want to skip the entire game (e.g. not play it) aren't engaged?

That's very true. If your main complaint about the game is that you have to play it then maybe you picked the wrong game.

[Lane]

"It sets up 100 hours worth of context and backstory and now things make sense and the story gets good." This is exactly how I feel about ARR. I still adamantly disagree that ARR is in any way necessary to enjoy later expansions. I watched through Shadowbringers with little context and fell in love. It's beautiful and brilliant. ARR is dull and boring, IMO. I would not blame anyone for using a skip and I do not believe they'd be missing much if they did.

[dlld]

"It sets up 100 hours worth of context and backstory and now things make sense and the story gets good." This is exactly how I feel about ARR. I still adamantly disagree that ARR is in any way necessary to enjoy later expansions. I watched through Shadowbringers with little context and fell in love. It's beautiful and brilliant. ARR is dull and boring, IMO. I would not blame anyone for using a skip and I do not believe they'd be missing much if they did.

It's not necessary but watching nr 15 of fast and furious or whatever and seeing a guy thats been in it since the first movie die, is going to feel different if that was the first ff movie you watched or had watched all of the previous ones, no matter how well it's setup within that movie. Doesn't mean you can't enjoy that specific movie on it's own. (random first example i thought of because it's only movie franchise i can think of that has an insane amount of movies, their actual quality isn't relevant to the discussion.)

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I'm not sure what to say other than I really agree with the premise of the video.

The sad part is that MMO gameplay at its best can be really fun. But they can't just let you play the game at its best, they dangle that ideal in front of you for hours upon hours while people who sound suspiciously like addicts berate you for daring to say that you're just not having much fun.

What FF14 could do though is give you an ability to try out a higher level of a class right away (I believe wow has this?), maybe 60 or so version without actually having to level it in some kind of AI group test trial. Then at least you can tell quickly if it's just not for you without the need to invest countless hours into a class.

[Lane]

It's subjective, of course, but I've found ARR thoroughly uninteresting and had developed no attachments to any character outside of Thancred, only because he was often with me in the field in the beginning as opposed to sending me on errands from behind a desk. Yes, I will know who they are going into Heavensward (and beyond), but I can't help but be reminded of that quote from WoW, "I remember you, from the mountains." That's about the extent of connection I had to any of them.

Oddly enough, I am now fond of certain characters in ARR because of events in ShB. It's made ARR more interesting than it was. I can't say that I feel I sacrificed much by skipping to the end because ARR had not gripped my attention. It's hard to be moved by characters you've been given little reason to care about other than they were introduced early.

[Daffan]

"It sets up 100 hours worth of context and backstory and now things make sense and the story gets good." This is exactly how I feel about ARR. I still adamantly disagree that ARR is in any way necessary to enjoy later expansions. I watched through Shadowbringers with little context and fell in love. It's beautiful and brilliant. ARR is dull and boring, IMO. I would not blame anyone for using a skip and I do not believe they'd be missing much if they did.

0-50, even 0-60 would be 100% better if they actually fixed the ability progression. Very few, if any class gets OGCD at these points so your just doing the most basic 1 button rotation.

[Novaice]

What FF14 could do though is give you an ability to try out a higher level of a class right away (I believe wow has this?), maybe 60 or so version without actually having to level it in some kind of AI group test trial. Then at least you can tell quickly if it's just not for you without the need to invest countless hours into a class.

You can basically do this currently once you unlock "Palace of the Undead" Deep Dungeon. You would still have to unlock each job in game.

[mbit]

You can basically do this currently once you unlock "Palace of the Undead" Deep Dungeon. You would still have to unlock each job in game.

Only base job. You still need to grind to 30 to get the job upgrade to play the final form.

[dlld]

You can basically do this currently once you unlock "Palace of the Undead" Deep Dungeon. You would still have to unlock each job in game.

You need to get 1 job to level 17 and the MSQ minimum so it won't be straight away, you then need to also level said job you want to try within palace of the dead seperately as you start at level one. Quicker then leveling it outside but not super fast either, not exactly within the same realm as a real class trial, it's also not something a new player would know or realize either.

[BiggestNoob]

I almost feel like the entirety of the XIV story could begin at the very end of ARR - with a little restructuring - and it would still be a stellar story. It wouldn't be the first JRPG that started out with the protagonist being separated from friend(s) by a major event and starting their adventure. Hell, it wouldn't even be the first Final Fantasy game that did it.

That is true, I consider the first 40-45 levels or so as basically a tutorial for the game, as that's when the story really starts. Up to that point, you're just being introduced to the world and dealing with threats, but you don't really know what's going on. Then they start hitting you with the real stuff.

I think that's a reasonable length for a tutorial in an MMO as well, maybe ~15 hours. In WoW people often want a proper tutorial, and you're basically guided progressively through dungeons and trials (as light party) until you should understand how to play, and then you start getting proper dungeons and trials. For a new player, it's essential, for someone experienced it's mostly just world building up until that point.

[TheRevenantHero]

"It sets up 100 hours worth of context and backstory and now things make sense and the story gets good." This is exactly how I feel about ARR. I still adamantly disagree that ARR is in any way necessary to enjoy later expansions. I watched through Shadowbringers with little context and fell in love. It's beautiful and brilliant. ARR is dull and boring, IMO. I would not blame anyone for using a skip and I do not believe they'd be missing much if they did.

I have 40 hours played in ESO and ended up quitting because I didn't enjoy it. I had someone tell me "You barely played the game how can you say you don't like it?" 40 HOURS. I hate the mentality that a game only gets good after dumping a stupid amount of time into it. It's a shit game if it's not good until you're 100 hours in. Because at that point, the game isn't good. You're just pretending to enjoy it now because if you quit after 100 hours, you're just gonna feel like you wasted tremendous amounts of time.

[Katchii]

I have 40 hours played in ESO and ended up quitting because I didn't enjoy it. I had someone tell me "You barely played the game how can you say you don't like it?" 40 HOURS. I hate the mentality that a game only gets good after dumping a stupid amount of time into it. It's a shit game if it's not good until you're 100 hours in. Because at that point, the game isn't good. You're just pretending to enjoy it now because if you quit after 100 hours, you're just gonna feel like you wasted tremendous amounts of time.

Without trying to be antagonistic, I feel like this is a little off coming from you after how much you've supported FFXIV considering this is an incredibly common complaint AND rebuttal to the complaint (it gets better later) for FFXIV.

It takes a stupid amount of time to get to the good parts in FFXIV. And I say this as a strong supporter of FFXIV who plays it as their main MMO.

[TheRevenantHero]

Without trying to be antagonistic, I feel like this is a little off coming from you after how much you've supported FFXIV considering this is an incredibly common complaint AND rebuttal to the complaint (it gets better later) for FFXIV.

It takes a stupid amount of time to get to the good parts in FFXIV. And I say this as a strong supporter of FFXIV who plays it as their main MMO.

Well FFXIV is good immediately. The ARR story isn't great but the gameplay, aesthetics, and community are fantastic. I stopped playing ESO because I hated the aesthetic and gameplay but had played as long as I did because I had a friend who I played with.

I personally haven't seen people say that FFXIV gets better after X amount of hours but I don't doubt people have said it. But the game is a lot of fun right out of the box imo. It takes a bit to get to the REALLY good story elements but the gameplay and community makes that bearable.

[shadowmatrix]

They need to revamp the inventory system and make it easier to sort through items and gear.
And then there is blue mage, so much potential that has been left on the roadside.

[Mojo03]

I beat the MSQ recently and have spent quite a bit of time leveling new jobs since I began playing in March.

It’s for sure a good game. But that’s it, it’s a very solid “good” game overall, not a “great” one.

The engine is “mostly” what prevents it from being great for me.

I’d say my overall experience of they game is 30% of the game is “good”, 20% is “great”, 40% is mediocre, 10% is outright bad.

It’s for sure the better alternative between FF14 and WoW if I had to pick one, but it still leaves a lot to be desired.

Hopefully they take what’s great about this one and put it in FF17 with a modern engine and Yoshi P directing from its inception.

It’s amazing how far it’s come, but I can’t see it being the great game everyone wants it to be and it could be, without a totally new engine.

FF17 could be that game and I hope they are already working on it.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

FF17 could be that game and I hope they are already working on it.

Yoshida said that they were going to be pushing FF14 for the next several years. If a FF17 comes out, it definitely won't be old school/Everquest style like FF11 was... so it'd just be another story heavy FF in MMO form, which would compete with FF14. So it won't happen so long as FF14 continues to get pushed by Square. Also, MMOs are no longer hot stuff like they were in the 2000s, so I doubt another big budget one would be greenlit. I doubt a new MMO could crack the market now.

[Dakhath]

I regret not getting on the FF14 train early, so if Yoshida made a new FF MMO in a few years, I'd jump on immediately, but it seems unlikely.

[Lane]

I played the free 30 days (or whatever it was) at launch, but I was put off by mandatory group content so never purchased. As far as gameplay, I was enjoying myself, but I don't think I ever would've gotten into ARR's story. I just do not care about the Eorzean/Garlean conflict and any primal confrontation has about a dozen layers of fat to get through first. I understand needing to drag out content, but like right now I'm in 2.4 and the amount of time I've spent playing detective trying to figure out who keeps attacking supply shipments and why is not compelling. I know it's leading up to something, but it's hard to care about this.

As for new MMOs, I just haven't seen anything mind blowing. Wildstar was the closest and I still believe it had a good chance of becoming the next big thing had devs not gone the "hardcore" route. MMOs need to quit catering to the elite and make something for casuals and soloers. What's baffling is one of the Wildstar devs even said 65% of MMO players are soloers and they're an under-served market. ESO is so close, but I know the combat is off putting to some people and it suffered a lot of (IMO unjust) bad press at launch.

I've looked at New World and Ashes of Creation and they seem like more of the same old thing. I'm disappointed that I'm not seeing more Wildstar or TERA style action combat. It seems like the genre has just stagnated in the early 2000s gameplay era.

[Val the Moofia Boss]

I'm disappointed that I'm not seeing more Wildstar or TERA style action combat. It seems like the genre has just stagnated in the early 2000s gameplay era.

Chinese MMOs like Justice online and Sword of Legends online have action combat, though I'm not sure if they're quite what you're looking for. Also, since they are Chinese MMOs, your ping will be terrible (which hurts quite a lot for an action based game), you'll have to deal spotty localization, you'll have to deal with cash shops, and the English speaking playerbase will be tiny.

[Mojo03]

Yoshida said that they were going to be pushing FF14 for the next several years. If a FF17 comes out, it definitely won't be old school/Everquest style like FF11 was... so it'd just be another story heavy FF in MMO form, which would compete with FF14. So it won't happen so long as FF14 continues to get pushed by Square. Also, MMOs are no longer hot stuff like they were in the 2000s, so I doubt another big budget one would be greenlit. I doubt a new MMO could crack the market now.

FF17 could also be something innately different, it doesn't necessarily need to follow the story-heavy format of FF14 at all. It could easily be something more metaverse-esque with a heavier emphasis on player customization, community, player-made content, and world building along with staples such as PVP, raids, dungeons, etc. If it's built with Unreal 5 (and good) I could see it legitimately being able to last decades... Where as I don't think FF14 can because of it's limitations.

FF14 could very much exist at the same time for years more, just as FF11 exists at the same time with as 14 currently.

I'm not saying it's happening, but it is plausible.