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  1. #461
    Quote Originally Posted by Ange View Post
    Successfull streamers will do what ever it takes to grow. If its game hopping, they will change games.

    The skillfull game streamers do not attract that many people to watch them.

    FFXIV right now is filler content since WoW CLASSIC as filler content for WoW streamers did not work out that well.

    I am just surprised that amazons/twitch's NEW WORLD doesnt got more WoW streamer attention, I am sure there is good money to be made with playing a few weeks the next best WoW killer game, till the hype dies.
    New World will replace FFXIV when it eventually launches later this year, atleast for some time. After that we are probably getting close to a 9.2 release in wow and maybe we know more about the next xpac. These things tend to shift, as is normal. I remember back in the "old days" with gw2, swtor, rift++ were people left wow behind "for good" only for most people to return at a later stage.

    Its really up to Blizzard now, cause people will return if they deliver. No MMORPG can hold people away from wow if Blizzard delivers quality again.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Val the Moofia Boss View Post
    Right now you have FFXIV cultists who loved the 5.0 MSQ and are shouting at the top of their lungs how great FFXIV is and ignoring the glaring flaws outside of it, and then you have an influx of newcomers who are in their honeymoon period. People will look fondly on the baseline MSQs but they will realize FFXIV had increasingly little outside of that.



    The FFXIV community is arguably worse than WoW, but that's been discussed before (the original post isn't showing up in the searchbar or on Google). I think people who actually had to deal with the FFXIV community (rather than just playing by themselves and not really getting exposed to the muck) will look back more fondly on WoW's community.



    Yeah. It will take Asmongold a few months before he finishes all of the content in the game. He'll probably stick around for a few more months levelling up other jobs, farming old raids for mounts and glamour, doing relics, trying to get a house, but eventually he's going to realize that there just isn't that much to do and that hosting fashion contests and doing PvP frontline over and over is boring. Not sure what will happen then as it's unlikely a new WoW expansion will come out within the next 12 months, so will he jump to ESO or GW2 to try them out? Or will he just spend less time playing MMOs?
    1 - Yeah, right now people are so hung up on hating wow that no one looks at FFXIVs issues. Yet.

    2 - The community is a tricky one. In FFXIV you can play most of the game(Story/leveling) without much(if any) interaction with anyone, neither good or bad. Same with ESO, a game I play now. I can slog along doing alot of stuff(even dungeons) without uttering a word with anyone and it all goes smooth. Does that make it a good/bad community? As with any online game, finding like minded people is the key, but can also be very difficult. Especially if you dont have friends to take along. Funnily enough, i've been having a great time doing m+ the last couple of weeks in wow since m+ was introduced in wow. I've stayed away from it cause it was so toxic, but decided to give it another shot. Since then I have mostly met nice people that knows what to do and are willing to have patience and communicate. Its like the toxic people vanished and nice people are left. But thats just my experience, might be a isolated one.

    3 - Asmon is a smart man and also he realised wow was in a serious all time low, while FFXIV was gaining traction. He and all his close friends now stream that game alot. It works for now and in a little over a month New World launches, hopefully(!). New World, FFXIV(less), Classic BC raids(less) & 9.2 will carry content the next year.

  2. #462
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevyvia View Post
    Incredibly slow and boring combat, being forced to go through hours and hours and HOURS of boring main quest story. Anime artstyle and its accompanying cringe characterization. What's not to love?

    Man, I don't know. I tried it out, and what's so good about FF14 is that it made me realize how good WoW is, comparatively. Scary fucking thought.
    Your post reads like a basketball fan going into a soccer match and wondering why they're not using their hands.

    You set yourself for disappointment.
    Last edited by tikcol; 2021-08-09 at 07:56 AM.

  3. #463
    Quote Originally Posted by Lane View Post

    Blizzard isn't trying to reinvent anything. They're stubbornly sticking with systems players have been complaining about since Legion and every expansion since seems to be worse than the last in that regard. I skipped BfA and came back for SL because it was supposed to be the alternating good expansion.

    Gods help us if they have the current writing team focus any more on storytelling. Also, raiders are grossly overestimated, most players don't raid and couldn't care less if a raid tier was lost. WoW doesn't offer much in terms of alternate progression. I suppose raiding, M+, or PvP may seem like a lot to some, but not so much to the casual player let alone soloer. Getting rid of badge gear is one of the worst decisions Blizzard ever made.
    Yes, them sticking to the same formula for years might be a problem. Most people these days dont want to or cant commit to a steady raid schedule, especially for content that is difficult.

    We just gotta remember wow at is base, aint buildt for huge storytelling focus. They might shift into that focus in 10.0, but will wow players overall accept leveling taking alot longer with heavy focus on storytelling while getting less raid bosses? Im not so sure. Personally I wouldnt mind. I do LFR & normal mode raids each patch, I dont care one bit about HC/mythic raiding at all. I cared about it once, but not anymore.

    In short though I would welcome a more streamlined max level experience. less systems to keep track of and all that. That said, im a casual scrub and I havent given the systems in SL alot of attention. I just play the game and get stuff on the way. Only thing i've focused on is doing Torghast enough to make and upgrade legendaries, rest is in the category "I dont care cause I dont need to". I can do most activities without caring about them. Thats maybe telling that Blizzard dont really need these systems, the game as a base works fine as it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Syferite View Post
    I think the main thing is knowing how to discern between healthy criticism and unhealthy attachment to a game.

    For example, I dislike WoW's writing in Shadowlands, and as a player that enjoys games that I feel a narrative-connection to, it made me quit Shadowlands about a month in. I think that there's a lot that Blizzard can do to improve their writing and storylines, but I also know that not everyone is going to enjoy a game based on the same factors I value, and that I have other games to pick from to meet my needs.

    I think that there are a lot of valid criticisms that can be made on WoW's game design (and workplace-related issues) and we shouldn't build communities where offering such critics is discouraged, but I think that people should also take a step back sometimes and reflect on whether they're getting overly-invested and jaded in a company that actually owes them nothing.
    imagine if people just played wow when it was fun and just decided to unsub when it wasnt. I think far to many have kept grinding on day in day out, either for addiciton or sheer habit.

    I still play wow, was planning to unsub for 9.1. But so far it warrants a sub, since I dont play all day everyday. I play every couple of night and its enough content to have fun with.

  4. #464
    No flight paths and going through three portals to get some place. Instant teleportation to aetherytes. Not having to wait months for flight, just explore the zones, get the aether currents and you can fly in the zone. All classes can be done on one character. Crafting is done with classes, and they are intricate. The crafting never is out of date. The story is incredible. The raids are never out of date. The level sync feature is amazing. Token system for end-game gearing and a few other points beneath max level, in fact.

  5. #465
    Quote Originally Posted by Asrialol View Post
    I found a thing really, really not good about FFXIV. The Seventh Astral Era Quests. Holy moly those quests are fucking boring. Legit have to do 100 quests to be able to get to the first expac. What the actual...
    Yeah I felt the same about Lord of the Rings movies. They started out with the first movie when all I wanted was the second movie. I had to sit through hours of that shit before I got to the second movie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tikcol View Post
    Your post reads like a basketball fan going into a soccer match and wondering why they're not using their hands.

    You set yourself for disappointment.
    There's a lot of that going on right now and I don't really understand it. People are so mad and hate FFXIV for not being WoW. Can't it be its own thing?

  6. #466
    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Yeah I felt the same about Lord of the Rings movies. They started out with the first movie when all I wanted was the second movie. I had to sit through hours of that shit before I got to the second movie.
    Yeah, terrible movie. I also remember when it forced me to read The Silmarillion, The Hobbit and tons of other works instead of showing 7 minute long compilation of all the relevant lore before War of the Ring.

    Quote Originally Posted by anaxie View Post
    Looking for Raid.
    They never found one though

  7. #467
    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    For the last 2 years, i called out slackers, told people how bosses worked, kicked people from PF for low damage and also had a few fiery discussion in the in game chat. I have never seen a GM once.

    I don't know, it reminds me a bit of this trope "I don't talk to girls, because then i'll get in trouble for harassment." - Do people really not know where to draw the line? Is it impossible to communicate without being an toxic asshole?

    Well, if you can't, not using chat is maybe a better option...

    (tldr: maybe that's more of a you problem, than a general one, because i have done all this and never been in trouble)
    It depends on your server. Are you on the European server cluster, by chance?

    We don't tend to weaponise reports over the slightest disagreement whereas on the American servers it is absolutely much more common for some reason.

  8. #468
    The Lightbringer Pannonian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graeham View Post
    It depends on your server. Are you on the European server cluster, by chance?

    We don't tend to weaponise reports over the slightest disagreement whereas on the American servers it is absolutely much more common for some reason.
    Yes, playing on EU datacenter. That might be the reason, still i think the notion: "I don't say anything at all in fear for retaliation" seems a bit overboard, especially if telling that to new players.

    Or is it really that bad on US servers? I read love to read the "tales from DF" reddit, and tbh. the wildest stories always seem to happen on NA...

  9. #469
    Quote Originally Posted by Sevyvia View Post
    Incredibly slow and boring combat, being forced to go through hours and hours and HOURS of boring main quest story. Anime artstyle and its accompanying cringe characterization. What's not to love?

    Man, I don't know. I tried it out, and what's so good about FF14 is that it made me realize how good WoW is, comparatively. Scary fucking thought.
    FF14 doesn’t have an anime art style at all, out side of the occasional over the top battle sequence. To whine about that when WoW has turned into a Saturday morning cartoon that uses the worst anime tropes of ever-escalating power levels, one dimensional mustache twirling villains, and constant deus ex machina resolutions just shows that you are looking for things to complain about rather than honestly analyzing anything.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Echo of Soul View Post
    Yeah I felt the same about Lord of the Rings movies. They started out with the first movie when all I wanted was the second movie. I had to sit through hours of that shit before I got to the second movie.

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    There's a lot of that going on right now and I don't really understand it. People are so mad and hate FFXIV for not being WoW. Can't it be its own thing?
    I think there are two factors:

    1. People who have played so much wow that they just straight up can’t get past their familiarity bias.

    2. People who aren’t really concerned with enjoying FF14, just concerned with making excuses for how poorly the situation with wow is currently.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  10. #470
    Quote Originally Posted by Tyrick View Post
    But what MMO gives you level appropriate rewards like gear in a low level area?
    You quoted the post that answered that question. Instead of editing a post down, how about read the entire post before commenting?

    This is why I don’t reply to posts that don’t quote my entire post, it’s all relevant.

  11. #471
    Thanks for sending the link! Much appreciated.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bovinity Divinity View Post
    Well, like I said, it's not always about the actual outcome to these people. Even if you're blowing all the other DPS out of the water you'll hear, "Sure, you were top DPS but if you were putting the effort into gear you'd be doing even more. If you're not putting the effort in, you're still just leeching off other peoples work."
    Anecdotally speaking this hasn't happened to me, but had it been a continual sticking point despite me consistently outperforming people I'd leave that trash guild and let them wipe without me. It's just my experience that when you perform at a high level, no one really harasses you for anything, or if they do, they shut up really quickly once the action starts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pannonian View Post
    For the last 2 years, i called out slackers, told people how bosses worked, kicked people from PF for low damage and also had a few fiery discussion in the in game chat. I have never seen a GM once.
    Granted I've never seen GM jail either, but I've done those things as well and occasionally gotten ire from the community. I've been kicked from a 24 man for bringing up someone wearing 2 expansion old weapons and armor, with wrongly stated (caster instead of melee) accessories. Everyone JUMPED on me and I was like okay I don't feel like getting kicked after killing the first boss so I'll just shutup. I got kicked 15 mins later anyway despite not saying anything else. I've gotten kicked from a Expert roulette for asking a SAM to AOE DPS to help speed up the run. I had the healer jump on my throat saying we just want to relax and not have to try so hard, god I fucking hate people like you. Normally I'd shut up at this point to mitigate a conflict, but I really didn't understand how doing your rotation was less effort than spamming 2 AOE buttons over and over so that was my retort, and I was promptly kicked.

    It definitely doesn't happen often, and I can't recall many situations in EX/Savage+ where it has, but in DF it's happened a few times.

  12. #472
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    There is a whole questline with cutscenes and stuff for each and every encounter. No idea why you think they have no meaning.
    FFXIV not having trash in their end-game raids in which you will wipe 80-100 times is like the best thing ever.

    Just look at Sanctum of Domination, if you don't rezstone a healer you have to walk for like 2-4 flipping minutes.
    Not to mention about waiting another minute or so until everyone is ready.
    In FFXIV I wipe and instantly start the pull timer again.


    If WoW would just set the respawn right in front of the boss room you are currently trying, most people wouldn't complain, but for some dumb reason, they never -well, rarely (i.e. Sylvanas), do.
    I'd rather have cool and fun raids than save a few seconds per wipe.

  13. #473
    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecktangle View Post
    That's kinda what I mean though, why can't people take responsibility for this? Like why does having a BiS actually matter? Why can't they decide healthily enough when they're done? Am I just not being reasonable for thinking people are unhealthy for feeling this way? Like if you can't separate "BiS enough" from "absolute BiS" like it's not a game issue, but a mental health issue?
    You can't rationalize away a design that feels bad for people. Game design is psychology. If it feels bad, it IS bad (for the person in question).

    The issue is not being able to "separate BiS enough from absolute BiS". Absolute BiS in FF14 is not achievable by everyone, especially not people who don't want to do savage raids. However, the BiS for the content you like doing is easily identifiable, targetable, and achievable. In WoW, unless you are in the very small groups of players at the edges of mythic raiding or rated pvp, the BiS is functionally an infinite grind based RNG. You will never achieve it. The gameplay this encourages is to keep moving your goalposts until you are burnt out and ultimately start blaming the RNG as your chances or upgrades gets smaller and smaller and smaller. It encourages burnt out and resentment.

    Agreed wholeheartedly here. Tier 1 has it GREAT in FF14 and honestly I wouldn't want to change that at all, I just don't understand Tier 2 players unhealthy obsession's on BiS.
    Generally speaking, people like getting BiS for the content they like doing. It isn't about Tier 1 or Tier 2. People like being able to set achievable and tangible goals.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    I'd rather have cool and fun raids than save a few seconds per wipe.
    I get both in FF14. None of my time wasted and the raids are cool and fun.

    It's very sad that WoW has gaslit you into believing that corpse runs and trash are what makes raids fun.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  14. #474
    Quote Originally Posted by Soikona View Post
    You quoted the post that answered that question. Instead of editing a post down, how about read the entire post before commenting?

    This is why I don’t reply to posts that don’t quote my entire post, it’s all relevant.
    Hehe, how about you read the whole thing one more time?

    "Do I care for the lives of mortals? No. Do you care for the lives of ants that crawls beneath your feet?"


    Signature by the awesome Winter Blossom

  15. #475
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I get both in FF14. None of my time wasted and the raids are cool and fun.

    It's very sad that WoW has gaslit you into believing that corpse runs and trash are what makes raids fun.
    Flat circular platforms you teleport to aren't my idea of an engaging immersive raid.

  16. #476
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    Flat circular platforms you teleport to aren't my idea of an engaging immersive raid.
    Having my immersion broken by spending half my time corpse running isn't my idea of an engaging immersive raid.
    Wasting time fighting mindless trash isn't my idea of an engaging immersive raid.
    A location with a terrible, boring, hack story behind it isn't my idea of an engaging immersive raid.
    Lots of one-gimmick bosses with no story behind them isn't my idea of an engaging immersive raid.

    If I don't care why I'm in the location, it is never going to be immersive.

    And Alliance Raids in FF14 *do* take place in larger locations.
    "stop puting you idiotic liberal words into my mouth"
    -ynnady

  17. #477
    Herald of the Titans Daffan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rogalicus View Post
    Every class in the game is GCD locked, what's your point?

    Let's do some basic math. Basic GCD is 2.5s, that means 24 (60/2.5) casts per minute just from your GCD abilities. If your ping is good enough, you can weave 2 oGCDs between every GCD, which means three button presses per GCD, so 72 (24*3) casts per minute at the minimum. Highest CPM class in the game has 48 with permanent SkS buff, so with 2.13s GCD before other SkS sources. You know what that means? Your argument is false.
    You can double weave even with 250 ping. The double weave lag 'problem' is caused by horrible, disgustingly bad client side code that you can fix with 2 methods.
    Content drought is a combination of catchup mechanics and no new content.

  18. #478
    Quote Originally Posted by Segus1992 View Post
    I'd rather have cool and fun raids than save a few seconds per wipe.
    You get that same experience from the story quests for the raid before each individual fight.


    If you are seriously telling me that you think it's "cool and fun" to run to the boss after wiping, then get out. Seriously.
    That's just some nonsense for the sake of arguing.

    People should stop pretending that FFXIV raids are "I click on the duty finder and queue". You have a story attached to the raid, that you explore on a per-encounter basis.
    From the very first raid in the game, to the last.
    Hell, the crystal tower for example is a major part of the current expansion story, lol.

    You ran around inside Alexander, you ran around inside the Crystal tower.
    The enemies are attached to a story and sometimes to little "secrets" as well. Like the Shadow-doggo in E10
    And there are Alliance raids too, which are just like WoW raids. But they are usually easy enough so that you clear them first try. I don't even know where I spawn after a wipe in most of them, lol.
    Last edited by KrayZ33; 2021-08-09 at 02:32 PM.

  19. #479
    I personally like going through the villain's lair, breaking down the gates one by one and breaching the fortress, peeking into torture rooms, seeing training rooms, seeing the horrific experiments the villain has been working on or all of the treasures they've accumulated, and then travelling to the very apex of the lair to confront the villain. WoW raids are absolutely epic. No reason we can't have both the epic raid zone and the spectacular FFXIV style boss fights (no, alliance raids don't count, they look dull compared to Blizzard's).

  20. #480
    Quote Originally Posted by KrayZ33 View Post
    You get that same experience from the story quests for the raid before each individual fight.


    If you are seriously telling me that you think it's "cool and fun" to run to the boss after wiping, then get out. Seriously.
    That's just some nonsense for the sake of arguing.

    People should stop pretending that FFXIV raids are "I click on the duty finder and queue". You have a story attached to the raid, that you explore on a per-encounter basis.
    From the very first raid in the game, to the last.
    Hell, the crystal tower for example is a major part of the current expansion story, lol.

    You ran around inside Alexander, you ran around inside the Crystal tower.
    The enemies are attached to a story and sometimes to little "secrets" as well. Like the Shadow-doggo in E10
    And there are Alliance raids too, which are just like WoW raids. But they are usually easy enough so that you clear them first try. I don't even know where I spawn after a wipe in most of them, lol.
    Trash adds to the experience, as does an actual environment rather than just having the bosses. You try comparing the popularity of Ulduar to any raid in FFXIV, and the reason it doesn't work is because Ulduar is a complete experience and not a set of bosses with platforms.

    Yes I'm sure there are cool bosses in FFXIV too, in fact I'm even sure individual bosses are more memorable in general in FFXIV than in WoW, but that comparison doesn't really matter. PvE (specifically raiding) in WoW is more memorable overall.

    No, wiping and running back isn't what I'm talking about. That's what the dude I was responding to was talking about. I'm saying the QoL of wiping quickly isn't worth losing the sense of scale and immersion WoW raids have.

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