What's so good about FFXIV?

[NineSpine]

You're still just showing off this glaring blindspot with terms like, "BiS for the content I do" which is clearly not actually your best-in-slot gear. It's just a compromise you're willing to make because you know the gear is good enough for the content you want to do.

"Gear that is good enough to do the content I want to do"
"BIS gear from the content I want to do"

These are two different things, and I have no idea what value you are getting out of acting like they are the same thing, aside from whatever satisfaction being intentionally obtuse and intransigent gives you.

[Katchii]

"Gear that is good enough to do the content I want to do"
"BIS gear from the content I want to do"

These are two different things, and I have no idea what value you are getting out of acting like they are the same thing, aside from whatever satisfaction being intentionally obtuse and intransigent gives you.

Pointing out that the terms FOR and FROM are very different.

The terms used up to this point have been FOR the content I want to do, not FROM the content I want to do. Have you been misinterpreting or misunderstanding which term was being used? Because that would certainly affect your argument and make where you're coming from make more sense. Otherwise, as Bovinity has been saying, there's a cognitive blind spot in your argument.

[NineSpine]

Pointing out that the terms FOR and FROM are very different.

The terms used up to this point have been FOR the content I want to do, not FROM the content I want to do. Have you been misinterpreting or misunderstanding which term was being used? Because that would certainly affect your argument and make where you're coming from make more sense. Otherwise, as Bovinity has been saying, there's a cognitive blind spot in your argument.

In the abstract you are right, but this isn’t an abstract. And to accuse me of misinterpreting my own argument is quite rich and another example of the pointless sophistry being engaged in.

In this context, they aren’t different. If I say “the BiS gear for the content I do” or “from the content I do” it doesn’t make a difference. What that gear is is identical in both scenarios. The BiS gear for a mythic raider is the same as the BiD gear from a mythic raid. It’s identical.

But it’s good to see someone admit that this has turned into pointless semantics.

[Katchii]

In the abstract you are right, but this isn’t an abstract. And to accuse me of misinterpreting my own argument is quite rich and another example of the pointless sophistry being engaged in.

I'm not accusing you, was just asking. Because otherwise I just can't see how your argument makes sense.

In this context, they aren’t different. If I say “the BiS gear for the content I do” or “from the content I do” it doesn’t make a difference. What that gear is is identical in both scenarios. The BiS gear for a mythic raider is the same as the BiD gear from a mythic raid. It’s identical.

You're still arguing that WoW has a never ending treadmill and FFXIV doesn't. That you can easily and conclusively get gear in FFXIV that is BiS enough to do the content you want to do but that there isn't a similar breaking point in WoW...for...reasons?

But it’s good to see someone admit that this has turned into pointless semantics.

It didn't seem pointless when I made the post because I was honestly confused as to why YOU seemed so confused by the argument.

[Daffan]

You absolutely are not double weaving without glipping the GCD horribly at 250 ping. It's not even possible for most jobs at half that. Some of the slower ones can get away with it at ~100-120ms, but it's tight.

Do you have any insight into the fixes? I'd love to read more about them.

The game uses 500ms animation lock. The CLIENT SIDE waits for server response before update lock. Your ping is added to this already existing 500ms delay for no reason whatsoever. People with 500 ping don't have a 3 second normal GCD , but they do have 1 second OGCD. It's broken.

I sent u PM on proof.

[NineSpine]

I'm not accusing you, was just asking. Because otherwise I just can't see how your argument makes sense.



You're still arguing that WoW has a never ending treadmill and FFXIV doesn't. That you can easily and conclusively get gear in FFXIV that is BiS enough to do the content you want to do but that there isn't a similar breaking point in WoW...for...reasons?



It didn't seem pointless when I made the post because I was honestly confused as to why YOU seemed so confused by the argument.

I already explained the difference in detail. I’m not going to repeat myself. If you want to reply to the post where I outlined the difference, I’ll be happy to address it.

[Katchii]

I already explained the difference in detail. I’m not going to repeat myself. If you want to reply to the post where I outlined the difference, I’ll be happy to address it.

The post in question doesn't address that, actually.

Once again, and repeating myself is getting really boring, the point here is that in FF14 BiS for the content you do is simple, easily achievable, and reasonably targetable for anyone that plays the game. In WoW, it is none of those things for the vast majority of players. That point has nothing to do with this esoteric, pointless argument that people should or shouldn't like getting BiS.

People like getting BiS for the content they like. FF14 makes this easy and achievable. WoW does not. Do you or do you not agree with that?

You just keep saying that it IS different, not why.

If getting a certain ilevel in FFXIV is good enough, why can't the same argument be made for WoW? I'm not talking about how easy or difficult it might be, but the mentality behind it. Why is "good enough" good enough for FFXIV, but not in WoW?

[NineSpine]

The post in question doesn't address that, actually.



You just keep saying that it IS different, not why.

If getting a certain ilevel in FFXIV is good enough, why can't the same argument be made for WoW? I'm not talking about how easy or difficult it might be, but the mentality behind it. Why is "good enough" good enough for FFXIV, but not in WoW?

Because the argument has absolutely nothing to do with “good enough”. It has to do with a fixed, specific item level that you can shoot for.

Again, I already explained this in detail and I’m not treating myself.

[Katchii]

Because the argument has absolutely nothing to do with “good enough”. It has to do with a fixed, specific item level that you can shoot for.

If that's what you honestly think, you're missing the point of the argument Bovinity has been making. That's EXACTLY what the argument boils down to. It's not about the ilevel, it's about whether you can achieve gear that's "good enough" and be satisfied with that to do the content you want to do. you're making it about ilevel, and that's not what it's about.

You're saying that because FFXIV has easily achievable ilevel breakpoints and WoW has so many interconnected systems that make aiming for a specific ilevel difficult, that the two are different. We're not talking about the different ways the games do it, but the mentality behind why it's accepted/ achievable in FFXIV but not in WoW, because you can achieve the same result in both games.

Again, I already explained this in detail and I’m not treating myself.

If you meant repeating....you don't have to do that, you just have to do a better job explaining. It's not up to the audience to understand, it's up to the speaker to ensure they're understood. So, help us understand. All you're doing at this point is going "because I said" which we all know is just not good enough.

[NineSpine]

If that's what you honestly think, you're missing the point of the argument Bovinity has been making. That's EXACTLY what the argument boils down to. It's not about the ilevel, it's about whether you can achieve gear that's "good enough" and be satisfied with that to do the content you want to do. you're making it about ilevel, and that's not what it's about.

You're saying that because FFXIV has easily achievable ilevel breakpoints and WoW has so many interconnected systems that make aiming for a specific ilevel difficult, that the two are different. We're not talking about the different ways the games do it, but the mentality behind why it's accepted/ achievable in FFXIV but not in WoW, because you can achieve the same result in both games.



If you meant repeating....you don't have to do that, you just have to do a better job explaining. It's not up to the audience to understand, it's up to the speaker to ensure they're understood. So, help us understand. All you're doing at this point is going "because I said" which we all know is just not good enough.

I don’t care about the psychoanalysis behind why players do or don’t want BiS gear and achievable goals and endpoints. The fact is that lots of them do. That’s the way it is, and pontificating about why they shouldn’t want that is a complete waste of time. Games are about psychology, and arguing that games should be made in such a way that they embrace anything other than feelings and emotions is meaningless. Go play with a calculator if you want an interactive electronic device based on logic and rationality. Designing games that run against what players feel and experience is honestly just stupid.

To be Honest, this is why programmers and designers are two different departments. You can’t logic your way out of “players don’t like to feel this way”. Games are experiences and experiences are subjective. Feels bad and IS BAD are the same thing.

If you want to talk about the distinctions between the games and why FF14 does a better job of catering to that desire than WoW, that’s what I talked about. I’m not interested in wasting time whining about why gamers are wrong for feeling certain ways.

[Katchii]

I don’t care about the psychoanalysis behind why players do or don’t want BiS gear and achievable goals and endpoints. The fact is that lots of them do. That’s the way it is, and pontificating about why they shouldn’t want that is a complete waste of time. Games are about psychology, and arguing that games should be made in such a way that they embrace anything other than feelings and emotions is meaningless. Go play with a calculator if you want an interactive electronic device based on logic and rationality. Designing games that run against what players feel and experience is honestly just stupid.

To be Honest, this is why programmers and designers are two different departments. You can’t logic your way out of “players don’t like to feel this way”. Games are experiences and experiences are subjective. Feels bad and IS BAD are the same thing.

If you want to talk about the distinctions between the games and why FF14 does a better job of catering to that desire than WoW, that’s what I talked about. I’m not interested in wasting time whining about why gamers are wrong for feeling certain ways.

Why is it acceptable to get gear that's "good enough" for the content people want to do in FFXIV but not in WoW, when that can be accomplished in both games? That's the question.

[Segus1992]

Ulduar is awesome because the boss fights are awesome and because the environment is awesome. Not because of the trash lol

It's possible for a thing to be the sum of its parts and not just the best individual part on its own. You do know that right?

Ulduar without its environments and trash would not have been nearly as memorable.

[Lex Icon]

not sure why this is still being talked about but. in ffxiv there's gear i can get for doing the content i want and that's it. in WoW there's no end to the gear there's always something better that may or may not pop up doing the stuff i do.

WoW encourages you to go after that never ending gear while ffxiv is indifferent.

one system sucks ass the other used to be employed by both games. figure it out.

[Drindorai]

It's possible for a thing to be the sum of its parts and not just the best individual part on its own. You do know that right?

Ulduar without its environments and trash would not have been nearly as memorable.

Who...said to remove the environments? I listed that directly.

You are aware that FF14 raids and even trials have their own unique environments, right?

I love that people are pretending waste of time trash packs are somehow making or breaking raids just to be contrarian because people are finally comparing something to WoW and WoW is the thing being negatively compared to.

[NineSpine]

Why is it acceptable to get gear that's "good enough" for the content people want to do in FFXIV but not in WoW, when that can be accomplished in both games? That's the question.

Because players like achievable goals and a feeing of completion. You are never going to rationalize that away.

[Lex Icon]

So it's that there are more options in WoW? More distinct gearing systems that you can choose from?

And yet...

man stop trolling. clearly i'm talking about the currency that allows me to get to an end goal that both of these games used to have.

[Tiwack]

It doesn't treat you like a hampster in a wheel, it respects your time and there's no ptr. Give it a spin, I've yet to be disappointed tbh.

[Aucald]

This is not an FFXIV vs. WoW thread and needs no additional game vs. game rhetoric. Let's stay on topic concerning the enjoyment of FFXIV and keep unrelated criticisms in other threads.

[Rogalicus]

You can double weave even with 250 ping. The double weave lag 'problem' is caused by horrible, disgustingly bad client side code that you can fix with 2 methods.

Players shouldn't use third party tools to bypass bad netcode.

You're such a toxic, caustic, rude, gross user to interact with. Grow up.

Throwing slurs when you run out of arguments isn't adult behaviour.

[Daffan]

Players shouldn't use third party tools to bypass bad netcode.

One of the two methods doesn't involve gray area client modification, so that's good. My personal region won't be getting a DC until 6.1. People who live on East Coast and have to connect to LA server possibly are suffer too, although not sure what ping threshold they get.