Is anyone else just waiting it out for classic wotlk?

[Nnyco]

The entire expansion and levelling zones? Class changes in line with that era. That's a ridiculously cynical and narrow view of classic. What does a current expansion offer you after you've killed the bosses and levelled?

Thats exacatly my point. in vanilla classic theres atleast the 1-60 leveling that is somewhat unique, but tbc is just: rush to endgame, raidlog and maybe some arena. Its more or less an inferior retail. (Atleast in retail i get new stuff though)

And who gives a fuck about tbc class changes when most are still only one-two button heroes.

[Malania]

Thats exacatly my point. in vanilla classic theres atleast the 1-60 leveling that is somewhat unique, but tbc is just: rush to endgame, raidlog and maybe some arena. Its more or less an inferior retail. (Atleast in retail i get new stuff though)

And who gives a fuck about tbc class changes when most are still only one-two button heroes.

TBC is just as much rush to end game as vanilla was. Some people like the experience and you really can't say what enjoyment people are allowed to take out of the game. A lot of classes payed fundamentally different then than now.

[StillMcfuu]

I was excited for Wrath, but if the trend continues with more monetization and the coin being introduced I won't be playing. Not to mention with the WoW/TBC downturn, I fully expect the introduction of the token any week now because that's how they'll recoup their lost revenue in subs. It's a beautiful circle of a destroyed game, make bad content>lose subs>introduce coin to recoup money>game gets worse, lose more subs>introduce more monetization>game gets worse>lose more subs>classic>gain subs>retail gets worse, players move to classic>TBC monetization/boosts>lost players that moved to Classic>here comes the token>WoW still making money but with 1/5 the player base>find out everyone working at Blizz are hypocritical enabling rapers>emergency monetization incoming.

[Ardourdan]

Wait some people genuinely think there will be Classic beyond Wrath? What comes after Wrath is the reason why Classic is so popular lol. Everything afterwards was dire except Legion.

[Northern Goblin]

Doesn't change the fact that Wotlk Naxx is an even bigger joke than Karazhan, especially due to the powercreep coming in with Wotlk.

They're both jokes. Let's be real. Nightbane is probably the only actual fight in either of them.

You'd have a point of Malygos was properly tuned, but he's not.
The amount of people that you can lose in P3 and still kill the boss is way too high for him even to be remotly challenging, especially because on Malygos, a few idiots cannot ruin your attempt.
Whereas an idiot on Gruul idiots can kill critical people (healers) or when we actually refer to the "hardest" boss of the T4, Magtheridon, straight up wipe the raid.

And a few idiots can fuck you up on the drakes in Malygos and wipe the raid. You can lose people at Gruul's and hobble over the line just as well, obviously if someone is an idiot and shatters all your healers that's a problem but realistically how often does that happen?

As for Sarth+3D, i'd give you that if those Zerg strats would not completely trivialize the encounter, it's basically just a question of people having farmed Naxx enough until it becomes a Patchwerk fight because you just nuke the boss.

You didn't zerg 25 man Sarth in Naxx gear. 10 man in 25 man gear sure. But 25 man wasn't zerged down till much later. And talking about the difficulty of content once new tiers comes out is kinda irrelevant. People are doing Mag now just chaining channels and blowing him up.

[quiote]I think talking about entirely optional achievements is a bit silly, i could also theoretically make a challenge about clearing T4 content without anyone dying.
Sure, it doesn't have an title reward like Undying / Immortal, but due to the abstract nature of the achievement and the fact that it doesn't have any tangible rewards, its status as legitimitate additional difficulty is disputed.[/quote]

It gives the raids extra difficulty and extra challenge for extra reward, it's not silly when it works in terms of keeping content relevant that little bit longer for people to chase after.

It's sort on the same level as the "Do you have every achievement?" question whenever someone points out the lack of content.

Nah, that's a stretch, because some achievements are straight up dumb, like the Insane title. They're trying to justify a lack of content with jumping through hoops doing things that you may have no interest in, whereas if you're already raiding, giving you extra incentive on top is just adding to the content you already intend to run.

I don't think you'd necessarily find a lot of people that dispute the difficulty of Ulduar Hardmodes but will also point out that Ulduar was followed up by TotC, which was an utter joke on anything but their Heroic versions.

Sure normal mode was easy, but then so is all of Hyjal and BT. Difference is there's a version of TOTGC that offers an actual challenge.

This is frankly the tale of Wotlk, sure, its Hardmode content was (generally speaking) more challenging than previous content but the skill floor was in cases of Naxx and TotC certainly lowered as well.

TOTGC being easier on normal mode than Ulduar is no different than T6 being easier than T5. My point is that the arguments people make about Wrath with the view of making TBC sound better, equally apply to TBC.

Fair enough, but do you also remember how ICC was timegated - and TotC as well?

I do, my point is that they weren't the first.

I don't think you'll find a lot of people that are fans of the Sons of Hodir dailies.

Good job there's a ton of other dailies than the Sons of Hodir ones, and some of the Hodir ones weren't terrible. People recall a couple of them being pretty garbage and act like the entire thing sucked. Beyond that you've got dailies with other factions and the wintergrasp ones, long before we then get the tournament dailies on top.

Okay, now we're entering territory that's just straight dishonest.

First off, not everybody has a Prot Paladin in their group (because not every Pally can be a tank at a whim's notice)
Second, not every class has AoE, meaning even if you have a prot pally, you can't AoE them down
Thirdly, while some shit falls under the "bad design" category in TBC, you're throwing out the bathwater with the babies, some people enjoy that you have to actually have to plan out certain pulls, that you have to use CC, whether because the tank cannot reasonably tank them all or because they're doing too much damage.

I'd say there's a massive amount of dishonesty in your reply, Prot Paladins are a dime a dozen. Even so, you've still got ferals that can hold decent AoE threat, the only ones suffering are warriors. With the exception of a couple of heroics you can go in and cleave, and most classes have AoE, beyond maybe shadowpriests and ret paladins everyone has some version of multi target damage. You don't need to necessarily be a lock/mage/fury warrior to blast through packs.

Speaking purely from my own experience the only "difficulty" in TBC heroics was bullshit mechanics that don't make fights actually more difficult, just more annoying. No one watches out for it because you've the occasional mob that straight up is immune to CC and you have to accept that crap happens.

Wotlk Heroics are such a joke that you'll run them over with green quest gear with a pug, you don't watch out for a specific dangerous pack, you don't use some more utility oriented ability of your class, you'll go in, tank spams their AoE spells, Dps spams their AoE spells.
On. Every. Single. Pack. with. every single. comp.

Some rather overdramatic points here that take away from your argument, sure you could probably cheese a couple of heroics, same way TBC has jokes like Mechanar and Slave Pens. But you had to have some level of competent gear for most instances. Not to mention the ones added later certainly ramped up the difficulty, moreso than Magisters Terrace manages (and I *like* Magister's Terrace)

In TBC, you have to more stragetically approach certain packs at least at one point in time, Wotlk are a zergfest right from the getgo.
Certain Wotlk heroics aren't hated because they're "unfair" or "difficult" but simply because there's some freaking time event that blocks you from blasting that dungeon in less than 15 minutes.

And you're going to do them throughout the enterity of the expansion on a daily basis because Blizzard added a daily heroic that awards [current tier] badges, which you have to do because in T9 and T10, you need badges in order to buy Tier set items.

I mean I'm going to run them because they're actually fun to do, moreso than "ok this mob may well ignore threat, charge off and smash my healer with a thrash attack regardless of how much aggro I pump" Apart from Nexus, I found that place boring as shit, I'll just stick to doing it as the daily.

No, Wotlk was the expansion that severly damaged professions.

People didn't roll BS anymore to craft themselves a good piece of armor or weapon, but to add some socket to their gear.
People didn't roll leatherworking for a solid piece of gear, but some slightly superior bracer enchant.

Wotlk was the turning point where Professions went from being extremely useful and even a reasonable alternative to progress your character for more casual players, to just some side thing that you only worry at the start of an expansion.

That's actually better, much like enchanting and engineering now, you don't ultimately watch the gear you grinded up a profession for at the start become obsolete with raid drops. I'd hate to have grinded up blacksmithing for a weapon knowing all the materials I pumped in would be worthless by the time Black Temple rolls around and my Lionheart gets beat out. Having professions that constantly provide you value the way they do in Wrath is far better than the TBC version of "Well, tailoring got me this far, time to drop it and pick up enchanting."

And only running [current] raid because nothing past the current tier matters barring some trinkets, yay!

We're going to be running Gruul till the end of the expansion all for the sake of one trinket, doesn't matter if we've cleared TK/SSC in a night, finish with Gruul. Clear BT/Hyjal in a night? Finish with Gruul. Clear Sunwell? Finish with Gruul.

I actually prefer the fact that in Wrath you don't find yourself still running Sartharion/Malygos two tiers later. The only exception may well be people still running Ulduar for the Mimiron head, but that's fine because even with ICC gear, Ulduar HMs are still actually fun to do.

[Kralljin]

They're both jokes. Let's be real. Nightbane is probably the only actual fight in either of them.

Yes, but Naxx is a bigger because the powercreep in Wotlk and the overall streamlining of the game.

Threat? Not a huge deal anymore.
Tank dying? Pop a defensive CD / external (both are quite rare in TBC)
Raid dying? Pop some raid CD (also, rather rare in TBC and party restricted)

And a few idiots can fuck you up on the drakes in Malygos and wipe the raid

No, if someone fucks up, they die, Malygos doesn't have a mechanic that kills others when someone fails to execute it.

You can't really lose people in P1 or P2 because the boss does pretty much nothing and once you're in P3, 2-3 people can kill Malygos on 10man if you don't run into Enrage at P3, doing Malchezaar from 30% to 0% with 3 people unless you overgear it seems a lot more difficult simply because the numbers are stacked against you.

You didn't zerg 25 man Sarth in Naxx gear. 10 man in 25 man gear sure. But 25 man wasn't zerged down till much later.

Considering Naxx 25man wasn't really difficult, i fail to see your point.

And you could absolutely zerg 25man, it was even easier than 10man because you would just use a stamina geared WL with a Voidwalker tank Sartharion while the rest of the raid has all the time in the world to kill the adds.
It bypassed a critical factor of the fight, as under normal circumstances, the tank dies to a flame breath unless you killed the 2nd drake quickly enough

And talking about the difficulty of content once new tiers comes out is kinda irrelevant. People are doing Mag now just chaining channels and blowing him up.

Nothing to do gear from another tier, but at least a fuckup results in severe consequence, something that is largely absent in T7.

It gives the raids extra difficulty and extra challenge for extra reward, it's not silly when it works in terms of keeping content relevant that little bit longer for people to chase after.

Sorry mate, achievements aren't an extra difficulty, nobody discusses the difficulty of achievements when they are talking about the difficulty of a given raid.
They're extra content in a sense, but not another difficulty.

Sure normal mode was easy, but then so is all of Hyjal and BT. Difference is there's a version of TOTGC that offers an actual challenge.

MH and BT are more challenging than ToTC, however.

I already outlinied it, i'm not claiming that the top end difficulty of Wotlk is lower than that of TBC, but rather that the base difficulty is lower than of TBC.
And frankly, in the light of the fact that those lower difficulties also largely invalidate previos content, that stings pretty hard.

The fact TotC 10man Normal already drops higher Ilvl than anything outside of Ulduar 25man Hardmodes is a disgrace, plain and simple.

TOTGC being easier on normal mode than Ulduar is no different than T6 being easier than T5. My point is that the arguments people make about Wrath with the view of making TBC sound better, equally apply to TBC.

It is, because as said above, it completely invalidates Ulduar, people aren't going to completely skip T5 once T6 is out.

"Play the Patch" started in Wotlk, that's just a fact.

Good job there's a ton of other dailies than the Sons of Hodir ones, and some of the Hodir ones weren't terrible. People recall a couple of them being pretty garbage and act like the entire thing sucked. Beyond that you've got dailies with other factions and the wintergrasp ones, long before we then get the tournament dailies on top.

Just none of those matter because you wore tabards and got exalted through that with every relevant faction besides Sons of Hodir.

Like, why would you ever do Knight of the Ebon Blade dailies when you pretty much get Exalted with every faction by just doing heroics?
You get faster Rep by spamming Heroics than doing those dailies, unless you desperately need the gold, there is just no reason to do those dailies.

I'd say there's a massive amount of dishonesty in your reply, Prot Paladins are a dime a dozen.

Tell me about it the next time i'm looking for a tank for a heroic.
Disregarding that the fact about this whole "not every spec can AoE" also still stands.

Even so, you've still got ferals that can hold decent AoE threat

Swipe only hits three targets and its damage also isn't that great, either.
Feral is by no means capable of AoE tanking, unless you give them a lot of time to build threat and the group plays around it.

Speaking purely from my own experience the only "difficulty" in TBC heroics was bullshit mechanics that don't make fights actually more difficult

I just disagree, when you have like two mobs using two seperate heavy hitting AoE abilities, then it makes sense to CC one, when a mob has a horrify effect that can easily send someone into the next pack and cause a wipe, it makes sense to focus + stun that target.

When some mob dishes out a lot of damage, it makes sense to either CC or single target nuke it, rather than blast the entire pack with AoE.

Some rather overdramatic points here that take away from your argument, sure you could probably cheese a couple of heroics

I think the ability to cheese a heroic is besides the point.

You don't even need to cheese any Wotlk heroic because they're just that easy.

That's actually better

No, it's fucking terrible.

In what sort of RPG does it makes sense that a Wizard rolls a profession that exclusively crafts Mail & Plate armor, alongside Melee weaponry over, you know, tailoring robes because any items that said profession produces is inferior to the perks of blacksmithing?

ou don't ultimately watch the gear you grinded up a profession for at the start become obsolete with raid drops. I'd hate to have grinded up blacksmithing for a weapon knowing all the materials I pumped in would be worthless by the time Black Temple rolls around and my Lionheart gets beat out.

Considering that you pretty much wore and upgraded a weapon for like 2/3 of TBC sounds pretty decent to me.

If you think that crafting professions are superior when they actually don't produce valueable items but just to slap some perks on, then that's your preference.
But i think it's utterly silly, imagine you have to explain to a new player they don't actually roll a certain profession because of the stuff they can craft but rather to slap some perk onto your items - for every single profession.

Makes sense for a profession like Enchanting and maybe Jewelcrafting, because those professions focus on enhancing existing gear, rather than crafting it.

Having professions that constantly provide you value the way they do in Wrath is far better than the TBC version of "Well, tailoring got me this far, time to drop it and pick up enchanting."

https://tbc.wowhead.com/item=34364/sunfire-robe

I actually prefer the fact that in Wrath you don't find yourself still running Sartharion/Malygos two tiers later.

And that inevitably leads to content droughts because people farm nothing but the current raid and people even skip on their alts to the current raid because of how the reward structure is set up.

Even at the tailend of Classic, people still did MC and Ony, which is just so surreal compared to Wotlk, let alone the modern version of the game, people are doing so many different raids in Classic / TBC, rather than pidgeonhole themselves into one.

[Kagthul]

I'll do the leveling quests in Wrath but that's it. Wrath is when they added the redundant and dilutive raid system with multiple difficulties and raid sizes in addition to what has become the gold selling LFG tool and LFR nonsense. I often think about how good Wrath endgame would have been had they kept the single 25-man raid with one difficulty on par with Sunwell... since after all this is an MMORPG and not a "let Grandma clear everything by week 3" type of game.

...TBC had multiple raid sizes (10 and 25), and the LFG tool in Wrath was constrained to your Battlegroup (and 5 mans) which youd already been playing with for 3+ years if you PvPed. So what are you even on about? Oh and the raids were all on the same lockout regardless of difficulty... so, like, its nothing like what youre whinging about.

[Tooshie]

...TBC had multiple raid sizes (10 and 25), and the LFG tool in Wrath was constrained to your Battlegroup (and 5 mans) which youd already been playing with for 3+ years if you PvPed. So what are you even on about? Oh and the raids were all on the same lockout regardless of difficulty... so, like, its nothing like what youre whinging about.

Only kara was 10 man.

edit: and ZA.

[Woobels]

I'd prefer if they skipped all these inferior expansions and just went straight to the unrivaled GOAT MoP.

[Deferionus]

Heigan without teleports and a 33% slower dance that doesn't one shot you.
Anub'Rekhan but you can just tank locust swarm.
Maexxna but the stun is 4 seconds instead of 10 seconds and she's tauntable.
Gothik but the adds have the same HP and damage as level 60 while you're level 80 so you zerg everything down.
Gluth but the zombies do the same damage as level 60 and you're level 80.
Four Horsemen but with no shield wall, they run themselves into their spots and marks last 25 seconds and do the same damage as level 60 (void zone actually does less at 80 than 60).
Kel'Thuzad but he doesn't mind control his tank and does grossly undertuned damage.

Truly thrilling content awaits.

Sarth 3D was the only t7 content that required a pulse. Ulduar was great. But let's be honest here, there are probably two bosses in WOTLK that will not be push overs, and that is Yog alone in the dark and LK heroic.

[Kithelle]

If there was one single moment for me to go back to and enjoy, it was definitely WotLK

[deenman]

GW2 is a trash game (tying abilities to weapon types is so dumb), and FF14 has no classes I'd enjoy and I don't like the graphic style.


The only MMO im somewhat looking forward to at the moment is Ashes of Creation, but even that I am skeptical about now.

the weapon thing in gw2 feels pretty cool,your basicaly playing multiple classes in your own class,the variety it offers has been pretty cool

granted i dont really play gw2 as an mmo,i play it mostly as i would a single player,im a REAL sucker for the explore things on map style of games like assasins creed,far cry,dragon age inq,witcher 3 or even the mad max game,that game is so underated...the arkham melee combat...a very well done vehicle gameplay,customization and combat,a huge ass desert world to explore(i love deserts)

[arkanon]

the weapon thing in gw2 feels pretty cool,your basicaly playing multiple classes in your own class,the variety it offers has been pretty cool

granted i dont really play gw2 as an mmo,i play it mostly as i would a single player,im a REAL sucker for the explore things on map style of games like assasins creed,far cry,dragon age inq,witcher 3 or even the mad max game,that game is so underated...the arkham melee combat...a very well done vehicle gameplay,customization and combat,a huge ass desert world to explore(i love deserts)

To this day I have no idea how that Mad Max game isnt much, much more popular and well known. The only thing i can put it down to is the perception its just a movie tie in game, and most of those are pretty terrible. Maybe it was a poor marketing campaign? I honestly just dont know.

[The Oblivion]

i cannot wait for fun heroics, wotlk mage/ret pally, and wotlk raids.

[deenman]

To this day I have no idea how that Mad Max game isnt much, much more popular and well known. The only thing i can put it down to is the perception its just a movie tie in game, and most of those are pretty terrible. Maybe it was a poor marketing campaign? I honestly just dont know.

i dont recall seing much marketing,but i can see why people wouldnt like it,the enemy variety is pretty bad,the bosses you figth to capture the basses are comicaly repetitive,the only difference being their color )

that game could have really used more enemy types

i really hope they make a mad max 2 and also add some more enviromental variety and some actual LOOT

basicaly give it a bit of the assasins creed touch

[meathead]

i cannot wait for fun heroics, wotlk mage/ret pally, and wotlk raids.

you dont want fun you want face roll in pve and pvp!

pve in wrath was a joke so was pvp!

op'ed DK's and pallys broken the game and did so all or wrath!but but dks got nerfed... yeah got nerfed from being the single most op'ed broken aspect in wow history and were untouched for almost 6 months of S5!then got nerfed to just being without question the best class in game,yeah seems balanced.


your statement is why wow has gone down hill since TBC!think im wrong?then tell me what in TBC is more op'ed then wrath DK/ pallys and op'ed pve gear such as shadowmourn? = nothing! wait to rogues in TBC have Warglaive then you will see op'ed weapons but they are nothing compared to 3+ classes rocking shadowmourn in wrath.

Wrath did not fix ANYTHING it made shit worse!TBC fixed all broken game play issues in classic only for wrath to brake it all again.
"FUN HEROICS"... my DK/pally never dies in wrath.... can face roll a heroic cause im that good not broken game/class.


all of you need to do you research as wrath was not the "peak" of wow that was TBC. wrath only brought in like 1 million subs!thats its for game growth where as classic and tbc brought in 10 million+ players LMFAO!not hard to see the improvements. i know i know this does not fit the wrath is best comments most of you make but what i say is true.

guess what?wrath was also where wow got booted from mlg pvp Tournament! in before someone says well MLG dropped wow in cata... well at the start of cata sure but guess why? MLG dropped wow after years of crappy pvp from wrath! wrath is also were blizz stopped 2v2 and said they dotn count anymore we cant balance them = dk's and pallys! dont forget everyone will re-roll ally for the broken op'ed human racial! total opposite happened in TBC!


just remember people sub #'s dont mean crap if they did cata would be better then anything since it had the same # of subs as wrath at the start. sub #'s dont mean jack game play does! 5 dks all popping army of the dead in 5 man arena and loling... yeah what a great game right? enjoy health pools getting getting normalized as well!

https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...e-health-pools


dks in wrath = best tanks best dps best pvp..
pallys in wrath = 2nd to dk
make sure you guys reroll dk or pally in wrath as they will take every spot from you
you guys think druids are op'ed in TBC?wait until you see wrath dks and pallys lol!even as healers pallys are #1 in every bracket!

all i can say is thank god they allow us to keep a toon on the old xpac when the new ones comes!
the long controlled mana wars/less burst pve/pvp we see in TBC goes by by to more of 1 shot blow your ass up type of pvp seen in Wrath!

[Pendraeg]

Can you imagine today's playerbase running ToC 4 times a week per character? I can't think of a greater cancer in WoW, let alone the utter outrage and butthurt screams when Blizzard re-releases ICC 1 wing per week with limited attempts.

I don't think I'd play wrath, the only things I didn't do originally were Sarth 3D while it was hard, the latter half of Ulduar while it was hard and 1-2 Heroic bosses.
By the end of wrath I'd done all the raids, got the Ulduar25 and ICC25 meta mounts.
I still raid SL with several people I met during Wrath so it wouldn't be memory lane for me personally.

I miss the "non-standard" builds from WotLK. Caster MH, hard-cast Lava Burst Enh Shaman, Diseaseless Blood DK, Evasion stacked Pally tank, Shockadin...

[OasisQHP]

Enjoying TBC, but have been playing for only about 4 weeks now. Wrath was the expansion I spent most time in but I'm really looking forward to the raid content then.

[Akka]

Everyone pointing out Naxx as proof that TBC is harder than Wrath seems to overlook the fact it's the Wrath equivalent of Karazhan. Malygos is harder than Gruul and Sarth 3d pretty much beats out anything in the opening tier.

No, people don't overlook anything, you're just completely wrong in your evaluations.
Naxx80 is MASSIVELY easier than Kara, Malygos is FAR easier than Gruul and Sarth 3D is the only decent fight, but was already comparable to Magtheridon at release, and nowaday will probably be trashed.

[Struggle]

I was. TBC and Wrath were my favorite expansions. But I'm glad TBC came first so I could see they're doing the minimal effort to maximize on profiting off people's nostalgia.

Now I know Wrath won't come with fresh servers or come with any sort of botting/economic moderation, so now I know I won't be playing any Warcraft games anymore.