Why the Grind System is Pure Shit in Any Game

[regardoz]

Habibi why did you get ban? i want to avoid that if you can share ^ ^

[LeeRoyMahBoi]

Habibi why did you get ban? i want to avoid that if you can share ^ ^

Don't try to avoid anything, if they want to censor you, just make a new one, easy as pie.

[regardoz]

Don't try to avoid anything, if they want to censor you, just make a new one, easy as pie.

alright thanks , because i didnot saw you sayinh anyhting racist or anything thats why i was like why did they ban someone just because he has different modern opinion?

[LeeRoyMahBoi]

alright thanks , because i didnot saw you sayinh anyhting racist or anything thats why i was like why did they ban someone just because he has different modern opinion?

pretty much, yeah. sjw type idiots can't handle if someone confronts them with the truth.

[shadowmatrix]

The defining quality of wow at its release was that it was more casual than any other mmo. Nowadays that changed. Its not surprising people complain about grind then.

WOW is still casual but too many casuals have deluded themselves into to thinking their hardcore.

BTW The grind in games is there to pad the playtime otherwise their years/months of work would be beaten in a few hours. Devs have been working on ways to speed things to the point grinds or similar slowdowns aren't needed but no one has managed to find that unicorn yet.

[Lolites]

But if you like grinding, your pov is objectively wrong, because you like something which is utterly wrong.

this is the most self-centered sentance i have EVER seen or heard
"i dont like something so if you do you are objectively wrong"
just... wow... how huge must someones ego be to think this way ffs?!

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Sounds like concept of work that gives satisfaction at the end is completely alien for you. Or any kind of workout. Or productive life to be honest.

yep, definitely seems like OP never had to work for anything

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We can each decide how much time we want to spend in the game

you mean EXACTLY like it is now?
you said you never grind anything so you clearly can decide what you want or dont want to do, yet you want to remove grind thus taking away option to grind from people who do enjoy it...
doesnt your back hurt? carrying that MASSIVE ego around must be killing it...

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Thankfully - WoW got rid of any required grinds several expansions ago.

well not realy several expansions ago, ap was pretty much required in bfa, but there is none required in SL, yet op still want remove the few optional grinds we have, rather than just not doing them... shows nicely he cares about nobody but himself

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Habibi why did you get ban? i want to avoid that if you can share ^ ^

probably for insulting at least one person in every one of his response, and trolling, not that he admits it, narcissistic people never do

[LeeRoyMahBoi]

this is the most self-centered sentance i have EVER seen or heard
"i dont like something so if you do you are objectively wrong"
just... wow... how huge must someones ego be to think this way ffs?!

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yep, definitely seems like OP never had to work for anything

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you mean EXACTLY like it is now?
you said you never grind anything so you clearly can decide what you want or dont want to do, yet you want to remove grind thus taking away option to grind from people who do enjoy it...
doesnt your back hurt? carrying that MASSIVE ego around must be killing it...

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well not realy several expansions ago, ap was pretty much required in bfa, but there is none required in SL, yet op still want remove the few optional grinds we have, rather than just not doing them... shows nicely he cares about nobody but himself

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probably for insulting at least one person in every one of his response, and trolling, not that he admits it, narcissistic people never do

yet another fucking idiot without the ability to read.
you brain-dead fuckers who grind hours on end without realizing how the system itself can be way better.

you are like rats in a cage pedalling for hours upon hours not even realizing you are being used to make money off your time. truly how fucking dead inside you must be to repeat the same shit over and over, even defending the broken system, without doing anything new, the utter definition of insane, brain-dead zombie fuckers
And developers know it too, they take full advantage of your idiocy and rake in the cash you make them for no content whatsoever all while laughing their asses off about your stupidity and how they can get away with it.

[Wuusah]

Grinding is not bad when you enjoy what you are doing and whether you enjoy what you are doing depends on the moment-to-moment gameplay. It can have the best rewards possible but if it's not fun to press those buttons then you won't enjoy grinding for that reward.

I really enjoyed the endgame grind for my tailoring BiS gear in TBC with my shadow priest because I enjoyed playing shadow priest so much. I never felt like I was wasting my time because I had fun playing that class. I'm leveling a feral druid right now in TBC and powershifting for unlimited (as long as you have mana) energy is so much fun that again, the grind in quest zones like Nagrand doesn't feel bad to me. It's fun to play feral cat.

Meanwhile in retail I have tried playing my shadow priest in 9.1 and it's simply not fun to play shadow priest in the open world content like Korthia. It feels miserable to play shadow in solo content. You have an amazing burst rotation that is a lot of fun but your questing doesn't end with a burst rotation and you are left with a feeling like you aren't doing any damage anymore outside of that burst window. Grinding Korthia felt awful on that char. Torghast feels awful as shadow as well. It really takes the fun out of the game.

On the flipside, tanking in TBC dungeons feels awful if you are not a paladin. I don't really enjoy going into dungeons as bear tank. So I know for a fact that feral druid will be a miserable experience for me once I reach max level and have to go through the dungeon grind. Maybe I won't even do that and play something else, honestly. Contrary to that, the dungeon grind in retail is fun. If I could come online and only do dungeons and nothing else, I'd be happy. But that's not how this game works.

[mbit]

WOW is still casual but too many casuals have deluded themselves into to thinking their hardcore.

BTW The grind in games is there to pad the playtime otherwise their years/months of work would be beaten in a few hours. Devs have been working on ways to speed things to the point grinds or similar slowdowns aren't needed but no one has managed to find that unicorn yet.

There are way more casual mmos out now and its not even winning in comparison to itself as previous xpacs were more casual than its present state.

[schwarzkopf]

thwell not realy several expansions ago, ap was pretty much required in bfa

But you didn't have to grind it - that's the point.

[Crimson Spears]

There are way more casual mmos out now and its not even winning in comparison to itself as previous xpacs were more casual than its present state.

Do you mean casual as in easy or actually casual?

[mbit]

Do you mean casual as in easy or actually casual?

Casual as in little time commitment. I.E. in wod you could still max out in a week and just login to pvp never touching anything else. Not anymore. Shadowlands is stocked with chores.
Back in wow classic there was no mmo that was more casual than wow. Nowadays there are dozen of mmos that require less grind than wow to keep up. So while the market got more casual with new mmos, wow didnt follow the trend it set itself and went in the opposite direction despite its playerbase aging and having less time to play.

[roboscorcher]

What is a "grind"? It's work. It's the stick before you receive the carrot. If you want something that is not free, to some extent you are grinding for it. This applies to everything.

It's always smart to ask yourself "is this worth the grind?" If so, do it. Otherwise move onto something else. You only get so much time to grind in life, so no point in doing things you don't care for.

The reason I stopped playing retail was not the grinds so much as how they were structured. Almost none of the grinds can be achieved in a day. Instead, you have to grind a tiny amount of everything each day. This is by design: upper management likely decided that timegating will keep subscription numbers up for longer. This makes sense on paper, but the result is that we're stuck doing 10 grinds a day for months on end, and every day bleeds into the next.

Playing TBC classic, I did a lot of grinding to assemble a Paladin AOE set. Some of the pieces were easy dungeon drops, other pieces (Wrath of Cenarius) were a week-long slog costing tons of gold. But I wan't timegated, so I was able to set the pace and enjoy the grind.

[Lodreh]

I would not mind the grind if they fckin keep it in the long run for stuff achieved. But they nerf it every time and make it easier in the future expansions and makes me feel like i wasted my time for nothing.
For example the reputations in MOP for which i wasted a couple of months to get them all to exalted and then they nerfed it and you can make that in a day now.

You see it as time wasted... I see it as that's how it should have been all along and they screwed you. I'm in the same boat... I feel like I've been screwed over more times than I can count... but I wouldn't wish the original shit show on anyone. Each time I hope against hope that the Devs have learned from previous iterations and will make it quicker this time... it never is and I've stopped doing it. Now I play three months for the opening of a new expansion then I resub 3 months after the last patch for the expansion comes out. You see everything as new and bright with 'catchup mechanics' that make the game feel rewarding and fun... the way a game should make you feel.

[Lolites]

But you didn't have to grind it - that's the point.

sure, but it was completely tied to power, you needed it for essences and armor alike, so it make HUGE difference, which makes it kinda required, in SL there is literaly now power grind (well torghast for legendaries if you want to call that "grind"), there are korthian artefacts but thats minor increase compared to ap

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Shadowlands is stocked with chores.

and almost all of them are completely OPTIONAL, as they are not tied to power in any way...

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Back in wow classic there was no mmo that was more casual than wow.

yeah, but nto bcs vanila had few grinds, it had A LOT of them, other mmos just had way more...

[mbit]

and almost all of them are completely OPTIONAL, as they are not tied to power in any way...

yeah, but nto bcs vanila had few grinds, it had A LOT of them, other mmos just had way more...

Copium, almost is not all, still more mandatory chores than before.

And the second part is also missing the point by neatly cutting out a full quote - playing wow was a easy choice when other mmos were all requiring more time. Nowadays its the reverse, wow requires more noliving than other mmos while its customer base has less free time. They are literally begging players to switch with their design choice towards more grind.

[Talon8669]

Grind is there in many mmo-s especially asian ones, but is also present in many single-player games as well.

Now this system is specially designed to give the player the illusion of achieving something simply because they got lucky, or otherwise spent meaningless time playing said game.

It is boring, unintuitive, and to top it all of meaningless. Ban this system along with lootboxes.

To all the neckbeards screaming reeeeee! entitled! reeeee!, just accept the fact that what you put time into is an illusion created to deceive you into playing any game for more time than it's actually worth. This holds true to any past and future games with any grind mechanic as well.

Update:

An acquisition-based progression per se would not be the problem. Just make it interesting, not like, oh I'm chopping down this tree or killing the bear for the 10 thousandth time, but make the trees and bears themselves different from each other for example. You axe could break and you need to retrieve the broken piece, differentiate the angle at which you chop, you need to sharpen it now and then, one bear uses this strategy the other one uses another.

Make the things you do at any given time way less monotonous and way more varied. Also get rid of disproportionately high number requirements for anything. Make everything you do, no matter how little, have meaning.

The possibilities of having random variations are virtually endless, and all should emerge organically from a cause.

I am not against grinds per se as long as their is meaningful intent and it's not literally to time gate content or create essentially artificial hours played. For example harvesting materials to craft a cool weapon I don't find to be a bad thing as long as there's an alternative route to getting decent gear. Rep grinds also aren't usually an issue for me as long as they have some kind of catch up or shared rep with alts. I'll do it once but man you make me do it on all my toons and that's just a shity design. The games also need to make the grinds at least some what engaging and not just this chore i have to log in each day or week to do. I'll use scryers rep for TBC. I like that I have to do that to earn the rep. There are some quests and then there's the grind of getting tomes or signets and turning them in. I can buy on the AH or i can go grind it out. Totally cool with that, but my alts should get some kind of rep boost or whatever to go along. I couldn't imagine farming all the reps in TBC on all my alts, just not worth it. Especially given WoW's model that as soon as another xpac drops everything i did was essentially meaningless.

[Dracullus]

Might be why the MMO genre is niche to begin with? Contrary to this thread's beliefs, the large majority of players do not enjoy grinding in a video game.

I know MMOs are not Fifa or Call of Duty, but can't understand how genre that sell millions of boxes every year (every month?) can be considered "niche". MMOs were niche before WoW, now most companies want to have at least one established MMO.

[Malania]

Grind is there in many mmo-s especially asian ones, but is also present in many single-player games as well.

Now this system is specially designed to give the player the illusion of achieving something simply because they got lucky, or otherwise spent meaningless time playing said game.

It is boring, unintuitive, and to top it all of meaningless. Ban this system along with lootboxes.

To all the neckbeards screaming reeeeee! entitled! reeeee!, just accept the fact that what you put time into is an illusion created to deceive you into playing any game for more time than it's actually worth. This holds true to any past and future games with any grind mechanic as well.

Update:

An acquisition-based progression per se would not be the problem. Just make it interesting, not like, oh I'm chopping down this tree or killing the bear for the 10 thousandth time, but make the trees and bears themselves different from each other for example. You axe could break and you need to retrieve the broken piece, differentiate the angle at which you chop, you need to sharpen it now and then, one bear uses this strategy the other one uses another.

Make the things you do at any given time way less monotonous and way more varied. Also get rid of disproportionately high number requirements for anything. Make everything you do, no matter how little, have meaning.

The possibilities of having random variations are virtually endless, and all should emerge organically from a cause.

I don't quite follow what this is even about, there's multiple types of grinding. Which one are you shitting a brick about?

[LeeRoiMahBoy]

I don't quite follow what this is even about, there's multiple types of grinding. Which one are you shitting a brick about?

Can you read? Yeah, maybe read the thread to find out what the problem is, you nincompoop