Fate of Afghanistan, Taliban resurgence

[Mihalik]

I mean, it sucks that that a lot of Afghan citizens that embraced and enjoyed their new lives are now fleeing, being killed, or subjugated to Taliban rules. But after 20 years of training and such, if they don't want to defend it, then it's their fault. I can neither blame Trump or Biden for it as we had to get out eventually, although I wish it could have been much sooner. Would've happened under Trump if he had been reelected.

The core issue is that outside Kabul and a handful of other spots not much has really changed on the ground between 2001 and 2021.

Yes, people weren't being starved to death wholesale anymore, but that's mostly it.

There were some, very small, improvements to the infrastructure, a couple of doctors would show up here and there once in a blue moon, but beyond that outside the major urban centers and provincial capitals the government (or Western forces) had no real day to day presence. Tribal councils and the Taliban ruled and now and then a occupation patrol would show up briefly, hand out some "aid", maybe install some solar panels, a couple of water pumps or whatnot and shoot/arrest any Taliban in a pinch. Then they wouldn't show up again for weeks or months, maybe drone strike a wedding or two.

This wasn't per say the "failure" of the Afghan government, this was a failure of installing a government made up mostly of former warlords who represented pretty much nobody outside their specific little bandit group/tribe.

Afghanistan is not a fucking country as we understand a country. It's a geographical area populated by a collection of distinct tribes/ethnic groups who often hate each other or speak different languages and who pretty much recognize no authority beyond their tribal council. This is something the Taliban seems to have understood. While they extort "taxes" (protection money) from the tribal councils and impose certain rules (mostly via controlling the road network, border crossings and urban centers), they don't actually really bother with governing because they are perfectly aware that the country is practically impossible to govern.

[Veggie50]

Yea it's a shitshow... Thing is though, it was always going to be. You can't win a guerilla war as an invader. Biden is just the first in a pretty long line of presidents who has the balls to have the shitshow land on him.

There have been nearly 2 decades of new regime. A younger generation that has had a taste of something different. All we can hope for is that this seed sprouts into something.

And you know what... most polls show that the mayority wants the taliban back in charge... thats also part of democracy.

[jonnysensible]

And you know what... most polls show that the mayority wants the taliban back in charge... thats also part of democracy.

Only ones ive seen have support for the taliban at 13% which is 2% less that Qanon in the US who poll at 15%.

The Taliban aren't supported they are ruthless.

[Voidwielder]

Airlift the last American citizen ASAP, never return. Pay Taliban in cash to keep their border check points closed, forever. No man, woman or child leaves or enters that country.

Easy.

[nonameelf]

A very sad time for women and girls in Afghanistan. Religion is cancer.

[JohnBrown1917]

Airlift the last American citizen ASAP, never return. Pay Taliban in cash to keep their border check points closed, forever. No man, woman or child leaves or enters that country.

Easy.

Ah, the ol' "fuck refugees".

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this usually happen in countries occupied by force by other countries

they fight with occupants.

on the other hand gotta hand it afgani people - not only they have now taliban + 300k army with very modern equipeement left by escaping US forces but their army got trained by US and is supported by local people. this without having their country destroyed while fighting for independence like EU was when they were fighitnngin nazi occupants.

China already met with new afgani gouverment and promised huge investments

while west is escaping in shame.

i mean did west seriously htought that the mainstream so mainly woke inclusion lbgt ideals promoted by west will suit to people shaped up and rised by islam religion ? i mean seriously ?

That 300k army is not under Taliban controll either, a lot either fled or went back to their own tribes.

[Voidwielder]

Ah, the ol' "fuck refugees".

Yes on principle but as assuming you're an American, you ought to shut your hole as you're not the ones who'll have to deal with the fallout from this.

There are few refugees, they are migrants. We have hundreds crossing our border, people who trekked all across central Asia, Russia, Belarus and other states. A journey of roughly 1000 kilometres, all men in their prime.

[Voidwielder]

he's from the netherlands lol...

Odd choice of bio, regardless the point stands.

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By the way, iron tight Afghan border is also a security issue - I don't believe for one second that some of those men who wanted a fight, were looking for a fight are going to go back to farming their lands or running their pawn shops. The situation in Middle East proper as as fragile as it has ever been, some of them will form new splinter groups and some of them will try to kickstart another ISIS 2.0.

[kamuimac]

Ah, the ol' "fuck refugees".

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That 300k army is not under Taliban controll either, a lot either fled or went back to their own tribes.

that 300k army didnt ffight when Talibs were taking over country

when they stood in front of Kabul not a single bullet was shot defending it - they met gates wide open welcoming them

you can live in denial or accept that army supports Taliban fully.

after all they are most ofthen part of their families / their neighbours .

guerill war is always impossible to win when fought on home turf you invided. same like nazis coultn eradicate guerrilla forces in poland 1939-1944 and suffered heavy losses , same like US could never beat vietcong - same both russia and US had to flee afganistan - such war is impossible to win when only thing you bring with yourself are ideals foreign ,alien to nation that lives there.

[BronzeCondor]

[Milchshake]

Overall, we rate The Post Millennial Right Biased based on story selection that favors the right and Mixed in reporting due to publishing unsubstantiated claims and having several failed fact checks.



How to tell someone you're a right-wing nut, without actually saying you're a right-wing nut.

[Doctor Amadeus]

My take is this This is Biden's fuck up. I say this as both a proud Biden voter and supporter, and given the chance to do again I will.

That said, I would be a complete hypocrite if I let Biden slide on this one, granted Trump DID set the wheels in motion, but it was ultimately Biden's decision to pull the trigger, evident by the fact this was actually supposed to happen some months ago and has been put off. Biden's administration had to know what was in store, and I blame him and his administration for not leveling with us.

Afghanistan was not going to be a war we could win, everybody who wasn't lying to themselves knew this and the fact nearly 20 years of sacrifice could end in matter of hours proves this point. We have to stop trying to nation build at gun point.

[beanman12345]

Overall, we rate The Post Millennial Right Biased based on story selection that favors the right and Mixed in reporting due to publishing unsubstantiated claims and having several failed fact checks.



How to tell someone you're a right-wing nut, without actually saying you're a right-wing nut.

Not paying attention much last few days eh? He's being very vocal about what he is.

[Yadryonych]

How to tell someone

The most ironical take so far, coming from a left-wing nut The pot and the kettle are proud of you

[StillMcfuu]

that 300k army didnt ffight when Talibs were taking over country

when they stood in front of Kabul not a single bullet was shot defending it - they met gates wide open welcoming them

you can live in denial or accept that army supports Taliban fully.

after all they are most ofthen part of their families / their neighbours .

guerill war is always impossible to win when fought on home turf you invided. same like nazis coultn eradicate guerrilla forces in poland 1939-1944 and suffered heavy losses , same like US could never beat vietcong - same both russia and US had to flee afganistan - such war is impossible to win when only thing you bring with yourself are ideals foreign ,alien to nation that lives there.

The Afghan army isn't 300k, probably closer to 100k. And they tend to he weak willed. Don't apply western standards of what we consider an army to the Afghan army. They follow whoever allows them to avoid fighting. We've had this issue with them for years. We tried coddling them, we tried giving them advanced support, we've tried everything. They have a massive history of abandoning their posts and their commanders have a long history of taking their pay, although with the way they conduct business they don't deserve to be paid most of the time anyway.

[Yadryonych]

The Afghan army isn't 300k, probably closer to 100k. And they tend to he weak willed. Don't apply western standards of what we consider an army to the Afghan army.

Well, Donald Biden applied these standards though, as well as 300k estimate, why wouldn't anyone else? You should really learn to call out presidents spouting nonsense regardless your own political preference

[Beuargh]

At the end of the day, you have to assess the following:

Does the region hold strategic value to the US.
Are the people of the region a significant threat to the US, or the US’s interest.
Is there anything obligating the US to be there - treaties, agreements, etc.

Or even better: do this at the beginning of the day.....

[kamuimac]

Not paying attention much last few days eh? He's being very vocal about what he is.

because who says so ? you ?

interesting fact - spokesmen from Taliban managed to call to Austrailian tv program where for half an hour he spoke about plans for future of their coutnry

somehow no medium of west managed to make it happen - not was interested in it - he had to call some niche program in Australia because nobody else even tried to speak with them .

this shows a lot of how mass media controll the narrative to fit their agenda

where is CNN and BBC to make offical interviews with them ? after all they are new goverment of country which half of west was trying to help for past 20 years - you would think that those media would be interested to listen what they have to say

better to show 24/7 pictures from airport scaring world.

somehow nobody has any problem with stuff like rights of women or lbgt people in Saudi Arabia . hypocrite much ?

[beanman12345]

because who says so ? you ?

Um, he is saying so.

not interested in the rest of your nonsense.

[DarkAmbient]

My take is this This is Biden's fuck up. I say this as both a proud Biden voter and supporter, and given the chance to do again I will.

That said, I would be a complete hypocrite if I let Biden slide on this one, granted Trump DID set the wheels in motion, but it was ultimately Biden's decision to pull the trigger, evident by the fact this was actually supposed to happen some months ago and has been put off. Biden's administration had to know what was in store, and I blame him and his administration for not leveling with us.

Afghanistan was not going to be a war we could win, everybody who wasn't lying to themselves knew this and the fact nearly 20 years of sacrifice could end in matter of hours proves this point. We have to stop trying to nation build at gun point.

The fuck up's on both of them IMO. It's entirely because of Trump's deal that the Taliban were able to plan for this takeover, and locking the Afghan government out of negotiations would have harmed its almost non-existent credibility even further in the eyes of the people. But yeah, the troops left on Biden's watch so that's on him. I just hope this means the end of pointless and costly interventions.