I dont want “renewal”. Here is why.

[mysticx]

People just ignore everything else besides their pretty elves.

A friend of mine who show me wow, 10 years ago, only played taurens, his main was a druid, had to quit wow until shadowlands of how bad he felt about his character in the pre-patch.

every race and faction is fucked, isn't like the night elves are in the worse position

I'm sorry, but having a race's capital city burned and most of the racially-themed zones wrecked is just a tad worse than "I play a druid, and this runs counter to what the class is all about".

Objectively speaking, being without a capital city, or indeed any place to call home besides the streets of Stormwind (Oh yeah, and a pumpkin farm nearby) is actually objectively a worse position.

[VladlTutushkin]

I'm sorry, but having a race's capital city burned and most of the racially-themed zones wrecked is just a tad worse than "I play a druid, and this runs counter to what the class is all about".

Objectively speaking, being without a capital city, or indeed any place to call home besides the streets of Stormwind (Oh yeah, and a pumpkin farm nearby) is actually objectively a worse position.

Not to mention having a worse Win/Loss ration then Vulpera at this point.

Again - WAR game.

Race - cant do WAR.

Am i the only one who sees the problem?

[Combatbutler]

Yep. You may notice how i specifically said that they FORCING us to take “renewal”.

If we will have war anyway, why beat us down over the head with “you MUST choose renewal”?

Basically they just humiliating players for no reason at this point.

Because blizz wants to sell their cheap modern moral story, telling you genocide war murder etc. is bad, despite the fact it is the very backbone of their franchise and you as the player commit it the entire time, you nearly wipe out other races, constantly fly indiscriminate bombing run quests, slaughter your way through primitive villages etc.

[VladlTutushkin]

Because blizz wants to sell their cheap modern moral story, telling you genocide war murder etc. is bad, despite the fact it is the very backbone of their franchise and you as the player commit it the entire time, you nearly wipe out other races, constantly fly indiscriminate bombing run quests, slaughter your way through primitive villages etc.

And thats the problem. They switch between two “modes” without realising how shamefully stupid it looks in context of the game.

[Syegfryed]

I'm sorry, but having a race's capital city burned and most of the racially-themed zones wrecked is just a tad worse than "I play a druid, and this runs counter to what the class is all about".

the point made is how "night elves lost (over a ling period of time) any semblance of identity, pride and strength.", that shit happened to all races in wow, this is not something exclusive to then. And im saying everyone is feeling bad about the race they play.

A capital city being "burned" or a genocide, happens to every race or so since early days of warcraft, this is not new, night elves have the luxuty to have another capital ready in hyjal, they have the luxury to not lose their leaders

Objectively speaking, being without a capital city, or indeed any place to call home besides the streets of Stormwind (Oh yeah, and a pumpkin farm nearby) is actually objectively a worse position.

Then objectively speaking, byt your own standards, forsakens are in worse position than night elves. because:

1: Night elves have Hyjal, Forsakens are living under the streets of orgrimmar
2: Night elf leaders are alive
3: Night elves are not being lead to an enemy faction character

and objectively speaking, being fucked over for years, losing their identity and characters is being in worse position than a race who just switch capital cities.

[Nynax]

The problem is that Blizzard probably knows that there's a large chunk of the playerbase who care enough about the setting that they wouldn't want a transition into World of Peacecraft...

No kidding. The amount of people that quit over the MoP setting is a meme.

[Combatbutler]

And thats the problem. They switch between two “modes” without realising how shamefully stupid it looks in context of the game.

They are aware, but push for it regardless, due to their misplaced ambition of moral superiority of their work. Constantly trying new ways to make it successful



Blizz wants to see you to see lets say a murloc eating a human baby/toddler as evil or monstrous, but ultimately it isn't it, rather it is normal in the moral setting of the universe.

[VladlTutushkin]

the point made is how "night elves lost (over a ling period of time) any semblance of identity, pride and strength.", that shit happened to all races in wow, this is not something exclusive to then. And im saying everyone is feeling bad about the race they play.

A capital city being "burned" or a genocide, happens to every race or so since early days of warcraft, this is not new, night elves have the luxuty to have another capital ready in hyjal, they have the luxury to not lose their leaders



Then objectively speaking, byt your own standards, forsakens are in worse position than night elves. because:

1: Night elves have Hyjal, Forsakens are living under the streets of orgrimmar
2: Night elf leaders are alive
3: Night elves are not being lead to an enemy faction character

and objectively speaking, being fucked over for years, losing their identity and characters is being in worse position than a race who just switch capital cities.

And tell me, what use are the leaders who just turn another cheek every time? Thrall is less of a slug then Tyrande by now.

Theoretically, if you could keep Sylvanas but she embraced Calia as her most trusted advisor and began a campaign against Blight, pushing for reunion between humans and undead and all that, would you still want her alive?

[Syegfryed]

You brought DWARVES of all races as an example?

The most stable races in WoW history. Worst thing they had was grudge match between Dark Irons and Bronzebeards.

Now they have all clans united and going stronger then they ever did.

>race being ignored for their lifetime with brief interaction in cataclysm
>better than night elves who ar ebeing heavily focused since vanilla

all right

Also if you want to just dismiss anything i say because you have a hill to die on and that weird “me hate elvez ugh” mentality, thats fine, but do not pretend that your position is the “ultimately right” one because its subjective as hell.

it is ultimately right because there is races in far worse position than night elves can even dream of being.

Most horde races have strong record of martial victories and generally “tough” performance. Minus the tauren. But even they did better then night elves post-Taurajo in terms of revenge.

So, you just want "strong record of martial fictories and/or to just just look "tough"? this seems like a bias problem of how you eprceive wow and the races in general.

Ah yes the tauren did, the ones who got exiled because they wanted revenge?

Forsaken have no leader… for now. When they get one it will be Voss with Calia being an advisor, and dont worry you will keep the torture racks and blight vats, they will never dare to declaw you.

Yeah, their leader will be a nobody like Voss and the alliance character Calia, while night elves remain with their leadership stable since warcraft 3 days chilling in hyjal

You had Faol for how long? And he basically Calia but less shiny. He is her mentor for fucks sake.

is he an racial leader of forsaken?

What night elves have? New city? Not even close.

They said already theya re moving to hyjal

They won Darkshore. ONE ZONE out of three they lost. Ashenvale still under Horde and Teldrassil is gone.

ashenvale is not horde, the hel are you talking about, do you unironically think horde still holds after bfa?

Horde races at least allowed to hate and take vengeance,

they aren't, that is false, the time they want against the alliance their leader became a villain and they were forced tor aid their own city and ahve it sacked by the allianced,

ho boo, but night elves lost some trees.

again, mentioning Taurajo and how tauren then pretty much decimated Alliance army, killed general Hawthorn and went to blow up dwarven fortress and kill a dude who wronged them in Vanilla too.

After their tribes being bombarded and their lands stolen and they got exiled by Baine for it.

Alliance, as a whole, literally had vengeance by sacking and invading orgrimar to defeat their leader and had fun watching the horde having to fuck up their own leader, city and kill their characters.

That is just the pick of fan service for alliance LMAO

So if you, arrogant snob (not to say anything worse to get banned) want to argue, at least bring better arguments next time.

isn't what we can he juiciest bit of hypocrisy?

your whole point is being arrogant of how night elves are getting worse than any other race, when they literally are not even close to it

- - - Updated - - -

And tell me, what use are the leaders who just turn another cheek every time?

i dunno man, at least you have leaders, ones that does not betray their own faction, cofcof BAINE cofcof

and are you playing the same game? the only leader who didn't turn another cheek becomes a villain, Garrosh and Sylvanas are clearly examples of that.

Thrall is less of a slug then Tyrande by now.

HAHAH

Theoretically, if you could keep Sylvanas but she embraced Calia as her most trusted advisor and began a campaign against Blight, pushing for reunion between humans and undead and all that, would you still want her alive?

that is straight up a false equivalence. but that is not worse than what we have now.

[Lorgran]

Actual lasting, respectful peace between Horde and Alliance. No more of that “annual war crime whoopsie”.

Tbh, I'm tired of Horde and Alliance always having to work together. Even in BfA.. the "WAR!" expansion, we're cooperating. Start a war, don't end it next patch...

[VladlTutushkin]

>race being ignored for their lifetime with brief interaction in cataclysm
>better than night elves who ar ebeing heavily focused since vanilla

all right


it is ultimately right because there is races in far worse position than night elves can even dream of being.



So, you just want "strong record of martial fictories and/or to just just look "tough"? this seems like a bias problem of how you eprceive wow and the races in general.

Ah yes the tauren did, the ones who got exiled because they wanted revenge?



Yeah, their leader will be a nobody like Voss and the alliance character Calia, while night elves remain with their leadership stable since warcraft 3 days chilling in hyjal


is he an racial leader of forsaken?


They said already theya re moving to hyjal


ashenvale is not horde, the hel are you talking about, do you unironically think horde still holds after bfa?


they aren't, that is false, the time they want against the alliance their leader became a villain and they were forced tor aid their own city and ahve it sacked by the allianced,

ho boo, but night elves lost some trees.




After their tribes being bombarded and their lands stolen and they got exiled by Baine for it.

Alliance, as a whole, literally had vengeance by sacking and invading orgrimar to defeat their leader and had fun watching the horde having to fuck up their own leader, city and kill their characters.

That is just the pick of fan service for alliance LMAO



isn't what we can he juiciest bit of hypocrisy?

your whole point is being arrogant of how night elves are getting worse than any other race, when they literally are not even close to it

Can you snark some more at the wall or shall we try again? Gather your thoughts, we have time.

I will sum it up for you - being ignored is infinitely better then being shat on. I’d rather have nothing then a pile of crap lobbed at me.

Until Ashenvale status is officially confirmed we cant know who holds but Horde held it the last time we saw it. They keep dancing around the issue, not mentioning it even in Exploring Kalimdor so whatever the status of the zone is it is bad enough to hide it.

Those tauren got exiled from Thunderbluff city itself, not their whole land. Plus it was AFTER they strung up Hawthorn from a tree like a ham.

If we get to do what Horde did in Cata and Pandaria you are welcome to storm the Stormwind and kill… Genn. And maybe Shaw… nah, some “Second in Command” standing for Shaw.

Also Sylvanas becoming Light worshipper again (for example) and basically converting into “goodie two shoes” mode is not worse then dying? Well fuck! Why do you hate Baine so much then, hmmm? Or Sadfang? Yeah. Leaders better off dead then becoming something opposite of what they were.

[Pakheth]

And btw, I'm sure that if Alliance nuked Orgrimmar you wouldn't complain... Nah not at all! You'd just say "oh well it's Warcraft, it happens"... right? Right.

As a Horde I would say good riddance. Let the other capitals shine for once. Nuke the Orcs, the Taurens wouldn't mind.

But we did have Orgrimmar sacked though, but it didn't show outside SoO which I never understood why not.

[Myradin]

And you end up in camps… but this time there will be large, really large washrooms for some reason.

Given that the response Horde and Alliance usually take to invaders trying to destroy the world, or even just, exist in land they want, is to murder them all, the Alliance putting a giant army of extertrerestrial invaders into camps where they need to feed and supply them is rather upstanding.

What were the alliance supposed to do with a bunch of demon crazed aliens? Give them some of their land?

[Soon-TM]

Yep. You may notice how i specifically said that they FORCING us to take “renewal”.

If we will have war anyway, why beat us down over the head with “you MUST choose renewal”?

Basically they just humiliating players for no reason at this point.

Sorry mate, in current WoW you can only be 100% Stupid Evil™ like Sylv, or 100% Stupid Good™ like Andy. There is no middle ground, for Azeroth is a MoRaLLy gReY world

[VladlTutushkin]

Given that the response Horde and Alliance usually take to invaders trying to destroy the world, or even just, exist in land they want, is to murder them all, the Alliance putting a giant army of extertrerestrial invaders into camps where they need to feed and supply them is rather upstanding.

What were the alliance supposed to do with a bunch of demon crazed aliens? Give them some of their land?

Some people suggested that… Which is dumb for several reasons. From Alliance lacking any confirmed information on why orcs attacked or why they suddenly stopped to there being no appropriate land at the moment.

[mysticx]

Sorry mate, in current WoW you can only be 100% Stupid Evil™ like Sylv, or 100% Stupid Good™ like Andy. There is no middle ground, for Azeroth is a MoRaLLy gReY world

More like a world of stupidity, it's the one unifying factor across the factions by now...

I guess the saying is true: a writer can't write characters smarter than him/herself. (This says a lot about the WoW writers)

What makes it really silly is that the plot involves people being amazed at plot twists that we're all predicting here months in advance, "Sylvanas used blight, oh noes!"

[Powerogue]

I've been holding off posting the entire thing because I want people to buy the book, but it's been long enough I don't think it qualifies as spoilers anymore.

Tyrande's Ultimatum:





Now my Horde Night Fae has been hard at work weekly rescuing night elf souls and even helped save the night warrior herself from being consumed by Elune's power to fulfill this. But even if I can look them in the eyes and tell them "our Horde has changed",

something is still owed.

[VladlTutushkin]

I've been holding off posting the entire thing because I want people to buy the book, but it's been long enough I don't think it qualifies as spoilers anymore.

Tyrande's Ultimatum:





Now my Horde Night Fae has been hard at work weekly rescuing night elf souls and even helped save the night warrior herself from being consumed by Elune's power to fulfill this. But even if I can look them in the eyes and tell them "our Horde has changed",

something is still owed.

And that is not happening, sadly.

So guess even that much is not “owed”.

Imagine going from that to “renewal”.

[Powerogue]

And that is not happening, sadly.

So guess even that much is not “owed”.

Imagine going from that to “renewal”.

I share some level of cynicism but I refuse to make that conclusion until it happens. As far as having watched the end cutscene now, it seems like Sylvanas will face some sort of "justice" but I'm worryingly concerned it won't involve us actually killing her because something something "whole soul now" BS. But I also don't think we'll just suddenly hold hands and work with Sylvanas like nothing happened. It seems more like she'll be a prisoner, willingly give us some information to help stop Zovaal, and after that is anyone's guess.

[spalernTJ]

I still don't understand why people thinks the "War" in Warcraft has to refer to the war between Horde and Alliance, that narrative has been forced for fuckin' ages. Azeroth and the world as a whole is generally, constantly in war with something, so why does the Horde vs Alliance War matter so much?