I think it will be good if WoW now bans for abusive behavior

[Blackrunner01]

I was absolutely stunned when I was told many people struggled to complete the proving grounds - I always thought of myself as a pretty average player, and thought the proving grounds was there to teach absolutely new players the basics of the game and their role. Turns out, it was a real challenge for a lot of people, but i dont think thats a bad thing? And i agree that putting some solo barriers in place is not a bad thing, and i dont see an issue with it so long as A) it is solo content (or people will just sell carries) and B) it isnt so gear dependant that players get stuck in the situation where they need proving grounds to get the gear, but they need the gear to complete the proving grounds.

Proving grounds scaled you to 463 ilvl in Pandaria, which was the equivalent of a full Heroic Dungeon set, so I guess it would have to work kind of like that.
And yeah, Proving Grounds showed how many people actually don't know the basics of the game. They had SILVER as a requirement to queue for Heroic Dungeons in WoD and they had to do away with it, because so many people couldn't do it.

So yeah I absolutely think there has to be some sort of solo-content that you need to gain entry to group content. To "good" players it will be a minor inconvenience that you just do in 45-60 minutes, but we do that multiple times every week at this point. For "bad" players it will be either something to overcome (actual content) or a barrier, which I don't mind.

[Inoculate]

That's a completely unsubstantiated claim. You effectively proclaim that the justice system is useless.
So murderers should be out in your opinion.

Hyperbole as your first response? We all see who the toxic person is and why you think you're in a toxic environment all the time. Clean yourself and the world will stop stinking so bad.

[arkanon]

Proving grounds scaled you to 463 ilvl in Pandaria, which was the equivalent of a full Heroic Dungeon set, so I guess it would have to work kind of like that.
And yeah, Proving Grounds showed how many people actually don't know the basics of the game. They had SILVER as a requirement to queue for Heroic Dungeons in WoD and they had to do away with it, because so many people couldn't do it.

So yeah I absolutely think there has to be some sort of solo-content that you need to gain entry to group content. To "good" players it will be a minor inconvenience that you just do in 45-60 minutes, but we do that multiple times every week at this point. For "bad" players it will be either something to overcome (actual content) or a barrier, which I don't mind.

Sorry i should have mentioned that it scaled, and could again, I worded it poorly. Rather than "gear reliant" i should have spoken about difficulty, which can be overcome with gear - not so much ilvl, but procs and tier sets and stat budgets made some difference - a huge difference when looking at trinkets and weapons (for those specs that benefit a lot from weapon damage in particular). You raised all good points though!

[TheRevenantHero]

To cause more hate and segregation.

Do you really believe that someone will get "Banned" will magically change? It never worked, it never will.

The only thing that will cause is people just having stricter rules and you will simply have people not getting invited into anything and its just gonna be alts of the people that already did it, the same way it is the first few weeks of any raid release.

People need to understand this but apparently its such a hard concept, stop pugging, get a guild, start being responsible towards other players and their time and show up.

You dont want to do that? Understandable, then suffer the pugging world as it is, with all its massive negatives.

Its literally the casuals, the 99% or the 95%, call that population whatever you want that whines about these problems, but you guys literally refuse to find a guild with similar mindset to get rid of all these problems.

It works in FFXIV. But WoW's entire community is built on making other people feel like shit because they're not playing the game a certain way so I don't see how it could ever be fixed at this point.

[shoegazing]

We have a situation right now that it’s considered “normal” if you have slightly more progress on a heroic SoD to start personally attacking people because they did the “capital crime” to not know the strategy of your special guild. It is long overdue this game started banning those people for at least 7 days out of the game so they start realizing the game is much better if instead of personally attacking people and acting like animals: they start picking their groups better so they learn how to not queue into a boss with “underprogressed” people for their liking: and after they picked their groups better then to help that group instead of acting like their enemy.

take responsibility for the groups you choose to join and get thicker skin

[Paperfox]

How you are online is how you are. If you're a, well, jerk online, then you're a jerk.

If you shake a cup so it spills, what was in the cup is what spilled. If you have sludge in the cup and spill it, you won't get a nice tea.

[Pheraz]

I think when they increase the amount of true casual content and also the content for people that invest "more stress" into the game for performing better than the average then the toxicity will decrease. It is problematic when people that can perform and want to perform better are forced to play with people that just do not care so much for becoming better or just are not good at the game.

But for example elitists joining LFR and flaming around is something that should not be tolerated at all, because it is the wrong place for high-performers. On the other hand my experience with LFR is more positive in the last years, especially since mythic raiding and mythic+ groups exists which soak up all high-performers and LFR is really relaxed how it is intended to be. Ofc when a raid is new, the groups wipe more often and some people leave, but the vast majority stays calm, respectful and not toxic.

So... more good, enjoyable casual content will reduce overall toxicity in the game

[epigramx]

OR just kick them (like you do) if you don't like it? Stop being so sensitive to words from fake people who can't do anything to you.

I prefer brutal honesty and open hostility if people dislike one-another.

People kill themselves because of language on the internet. All this nonsense "stop being sensitive" has to stop.
I may kick you in 10 seconds and don't care but a) you don't help the raid anyway b) you only hurt people.

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Get some therapy.

The kids that may kill themselves because of abusive language, may not be able to get therapy. I may not care about your abuse but that means nothing because I'm not the only one around and you have no clue who is around since you don't know them.

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It actually works. With kids you need to be nice and motivate but with adults its reprimanding with abusive language that works best. There are studies on this because it was so counter-intuitive.

You have no clue who you are talking to. People go into raids and start using abusive language indiscriminately. It could be a child on the other side or someone ready to kill themselves.

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It was not 50%.
It works perfectly in Classic with soft res for example.
Stop pugging and giving numbers from nowhere.
Find a guild or start your own raid.



LOL

Do you even read what you reply to? I said it was ninja looting IN PUGGING, and then you supposedly prove that that was wrong by saying to not pug(?????????????).

[epLe]

The hostility in the overall environment is directly proportional to the entitlement that the "new gen" gamers impose on themself.

When that entitlement gets violated in their mind of any reason, they will lash out at any target viable.
Much like most of the responses in this thread.

Hopefully the millenials get over it at some point.

[Xalvia]

They fired too much customer support people to properly moderate this game. It's all about flawed automation nowadays.

this, they are not in control.

[epigramx]

Even if you are 100% right and at the very least it's worthy of a debate, Blizzard does NOT possess the resources to look into every single he/she said allegation. They took 7 months to deliver a 1st patch on a new xpac, a rather light in content patch as well. It takes 48 hours to look into a ticket. I seriously doubt they'll get this right and will end causing a lot more problems than actually fixing issues.

Poor little indie company.

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In your own example, the only deterrent is the punishment. Case closed.

Case closed my ass. That's a textbook case of playing with words and giving a strawman argument. The point was that I was replying to someone that obviously meant they think it would be only REVENGE and punishment while obviously justice systems not only inflict revenge with punishment but also CORRECTION and deterrence.

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I reported someone who told me to go fuck myself because I tagged a mob. Never saw them again.

I was on a server that had constant bad language in chat. I reported every single one I saw. In two weeks the chat was clean.

I called someone a racial slur. I got a three day ban.

The tools are already there. You have been proven objectively wrong. I think you are only here to start fights and I will use the tools at my disposal to try to fix this.

OK you went full racist on language and you got banned. How does that prove there are bans for abusive language during raiding?
We shouldn't have to wait for someone to use the N word before we get rid of them from a realm.

[mbit]

People kill themselves because of language on the internet. All this nonsense "stop being sensitive" has to stop.
I may kick you in 10 seconds and don't care but a) you don't help the raid anyway b) you only hurt people.

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The kids that may kill themselves because of abusive language, may not be able to get therapy. I may not care about your abuse but that means nothing because I'm not the only one around and you have no clue who is around since you don't know them.

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You have no clue who you are talking to. People go into raids and start using abusive language indiscriminately. It could be a child on the other side or someone ready to kill themselves.

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Do you even read what you reply to? I said it was ninja looting IN PUGGING, and then you supposedly prove that that was wrong by saying to not pug(?????????????).

If you kill yourself over internet language you shouldn't be on the internet, you should be in the asylum. Think of the children is a meme argument nobody sane takes serious.

[epigramx]

Comparing mean words to murder is so rich. stop being a fragile snowflake.

Tell that to the parents of all the kids that killed themselves because of language on the internet.
Language is a powerful tool. It can topple countries.

[Daedius]

You must've missed the layoffs of a lot of GMs courtesy of Bobby to cut corners to save money elsewhere, to be wasting their time on every frivolous ticket because someone called you an idiot for not knowing a strategy...

[Xath]

We have a situation right now that it’s considered “normal” if you have slightly more progress on a heroic SoD to start personally attacking people because they did the “capital crime” to not know the strategy of your special guild. It is long overdue this game started banning those people for at least 7 days out of the game so they start realizing the game is much better if instead of personally attacking people and acting like animals: they start picking their groups better so they learn how to not queue into a boss with “underprogressed” people for their liking: and after they picked their groups better then to help that group instead of acting like their enemy.

Oh man that is such an incredibly great idea and certainly not displaying a level of intelligence equal to what comes out of cow's hindquarters.

That's pretty much what such a system leads to faux niceness thinly veiling insults.

[epigramx]

I agree with you, but for different reasons. WoW def has to start taking more definitive steps to ban abusive people. That elitism/ jerk behavior is falling out of favor real fast around the world (not just in video games). People are even losing jobs over it.

That type of attitude is also so ten years ago, its very dated at this point.

Blizz catered to those players for many years, because they wanted the e sports to work and it figured it needed those players. The opposite is true. If anyone on any of the e sports teams is caught acting like that, they usually lose their spot and the team suffers a ton of bad press, lost sponsorship, etc (just like in regular sports). The more successful players actually help out less skilled players (with things like free runs on streams, q/a discords, etc).

The other things is that those players have cost Blizz hundreds of millions (if not billions of dollars). Many people I know that avoid this game or have stopped playing site the poor, pathetic elitism as one of the reasons. Nobody wants to deal with some immature fool that thinks he/ she is king of the world because they are halfway decent at a video game (you guys are just as cool as the pinball wizards of old!). Who has time for that childish nonsense?

The real truth is: when you are good , you don't have to act like a jerk or belittle people. That's just the truth across the board (not just in video games). People that act like a jerk and belittle people lack real confidence in themselves and figure the only way to rise up is to drag others down. It's such tired behavior.........

Blizz has enough bad press on its hands at the moment. It doesn't need some fool giving the game more bad press (or chasing paying customers away) because they want to stroke their little e-p33n.

Not sure why you say different reasons when I said they don't help the raid anyway acting that way (I guess you didn't read the message before answering).
I doubt they do it because they decided it to do it for gaming reasons. They are most probably cheap (poor indie company).

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Any automated "ban system" is ridiculously moronic (see hots and how it contributed to spectacular fall of entire game).

If you want to actually ban people from the game for their toxic behaviour, then there needs to be a dedicated team that investigates every particular case, which is obviously too costly and just unrealistic.

Nobody told you it would be automatic. IT HAS to be manual. You can't ban people using the F word (or even the N word) if they are doing it ironically or if they are black etc.

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all fine so.

but plz tell me, who is paying for this? investigation and banning costs money. blizz employees, effort, time, money investment. who pays/invests that money? Blizzard??? you mean, the same company milking wow by minimal investment in cheap „systems“ (some simple UIs, DB entries and quests) instead of real content (expensive gfx/world design, game logic code)? Bobby Kotick?

You REALLY think these ppl invest money for that ???

Let me quote Morgan Freeman in The Dark Knight here: „Good luck.“

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exactly this. its not „too costly“ per se, but ATVI Blizz simply will never ever invest money into that.

Poor indie company can't do much. They have all that money to collect each time. You know how much it costs to store all that money?

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I think they should reinstate the need to complete Silver Proving Grounds on your desired role in order to access the premade group finder.
Maybe even a progressive system where completing bronze gets you access up to a +5, silver to a +10 and gold to a +15.

I think that alone should clear up most of the issues as most people, (OP included) wouldn't be able to access content out of their league, and thus wouldn't get yelled at and made to feel bad.

You are COMPLETELY off topic. Kick the ass of those that fail in your raid in seconds and that's GOOD to happen if the goals of the group are clearly hard-core-ish. This is a discussion solely about abusive language that helps NO ONE (including the hard core goals of a raid because obviously nobody wants a drama queen around personally attacking people without any argument other than hate).

[Combatbutler]

Tell that to the parents of all the kids that killed themselves because of language on the internet.
Language is a powerful tool. It can topple countries.

Depends on the level of harassment, but usually these kids get mauled by their school bullies after school, which is a job for the parents and teachers to step in. As a general rule Kids shouldn't have unsupervised access to the internet.

Ultimately if people cannot handle the internet how are they supposed to function baseline society? How the hell are they supposed to handle being chewed out if they mess up a project, which might result in them loosing their job and their livelihood later on in life?

[DingDongKing]

Just do what Mythic Quest did. Don't ban anyone. Just move everyone being abusive to a server with other abusive people.

Everyone still gets to play the game, but doesn't get to mess with each other's experience.

[epigramx]

Hyperbole as your first response? We all see who the toxic person is and why you think you're in a toxic environment all the time. Clean yourself and the world will stop stinking so bad.

Nice strawman. Hyperbole is an extremely valid argument in this case because it proves it's a slippery slope to proclaim that you want to let people to abuse others.
Let alone abusive language on the internet routinely leads people to kill themselves so it's not that much of a hyperbole either.

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take responsibility for the groups you choose to join and get thicker skin

Do you even read what you reply to? The first part of what you said is EXACTLY what I said in the end.
Regarding you supporting the abuse of people with language: no comment.

[Mendzia]

Do you even read what you reply to? I said it was ninja looting IN PUGGING, and then you supposedly prove that that was wrong by saying to not pug(?????????????).

Again.
Stop pugging then.
Problem solved.