I can’t believe how naive the most popular youtubers are

[epigramx]

Currently possibly the most popular youtube channel on wow (I won’t name names to not be considered an attack to them) has a video describing how the devs “decided” to double the stygia regards and how that change “was long needed” and they “finally” decided to do that and it should had been done earlier etc. etc.
I can’t fathom how that can be a popular source of “information” when it’s been clear for MANY expansions now that it’s ROUTINE to increase the rate of gaining resources and obviously that is BY DESIGN before the expansion even launches since the early content is less and people more eager to grind.

[Doctor Amadeus]

99% of YouTubers who are famous have no talent and are idiots, it's also why partly why it exploded elsewhere in on minute clicks of content and photoshop everywhere else. Stupid people doing bullshit in front of even dumber people with no lives. Except for maybe Streamers now, upper middle class kids with no jobs who might be semi attractive or popular getting paid as people live vicariously through their failed shallow lives..


Bottom line is Mass Media Entertainment and movies follow this trend because it's much easier and cheaper than creating these emotionally bankrupt people than before, everything from music to comedy.

Which is why "Cancel Culture" Otherwise known as consequences for people finding out who these people REALLY ARE gets complained about and crossed along ideologies and spectrums of thought.


It's the choice between doing nothing for as much as possible, and showing some effort and being reasonable.


Perfect example are list or top 10 list, of people debunking or not debunking bullshit, with even more bullshit, with no actual credibility. This trend has always been real popular for all the reasons above.

[Adamas102]

Currently possibly the most popular youtube channel on wow (I won’t name names to not be considered an attack to them) has a video describing how the devs “decided” to double the stygia regards and how that change “was long needed” and they “finally” decided to do that and it should had been done earlier etc. etc.
I can’t fathom how that can be a popular source of “information” when it’s been clear for MANY expansions now that it’s ROUTINE to increase the rate of gaining resources and obviously that is BY DESIGN before the expansion even launches since the early content is less and people more eager to grind.

You're not wrong that there is typically a trend of increasing the rate at which currencies are acquired as expansions go on, but there is also an argument for Blizzard starting at too low a rate. I felt it as well at the beginning of SL where the payoffs for accumulating things like anima were too spaced out, especially for people who enjoy playing alts. I knew the rate was going to increase later on, but it was slow enough at the start to sour my desire to play at all.

[Yeorgaki]

You're not wrong that there is typically a trend of increasing the rate at which currencies are acquired as expansions go on, but there is also an argument for Blizzard starting at too low a rate. I felt it as well at the beginning of SL where the payoffs for accumulating things like anima were too spaced out, especially for people who enjoy playing alts. I knew the rate was going to increase later on, but it was slow enough at the start to sour my desire to play at all.

The general consensus is that people have the most fun and feel most valued when their gear took effort and time to accomplish. Some say it's too low yet, if it started off any higher, people would've complained that there's no content and that the $15 monthly bill isn't justified because they have nothing to do.

The people who complain it isn't enough are usually the minority, starting at higher rates from scratch would greatly diminish the value of the game for the majority of players. At least judging from my experiences.

[Adamas102]

The general consensus is that people have the most fun and feel most valued when their gear took effort and time to accomplish. Some say it's too low yet, if it started off any higher, people would've complained that there's no content and that the $15 monthly bill isn't justified because they have nothing to do.

The people who complain it isn't enough are usually the minority, starting at higher rates from scratch would greatly diminish the value of the game for the majority of players. At least judging from my experiences.

You forgot to add the charts from the studies you're referencing! /s

The fact of the matter is that the ratio of effort to payoff can vary greatly from person to person. People also value rewards differently. Some people will spend months farming a mount, others see no value in even spending 10 minutes for it. There is also NO consensus on what constitutes as "effort" when playing video games. People who want faster grinds are still putting in time and effort into participating in the grinds, they just don't match whatever arbitrary number you've determined for yourself. And despite the all to common forum meme, I've never seen anyone argue that all rewards should be granted simply for logging on.

There will always be people who complain that there isn't enough content, especially in WoW where the content isn't usually extensive but mostly just repeatable. For anima specifically it wasn't so much a lack of content but rather a small pool of rewards that didn't feel very rewarding. If running out of rewards is the fear then there are two options: make people spend more time to acquire rewards or add more rewards. I feel like given the choice most people would go with the second option.

I've played WoW since vanilla so I'm no stranger to looooong grinds for pixels and I'm not coming with a mentality for instant gratification. The problem with SL was two fold: the currencies took too long to acquire and the rewards were lackluster. That might just be part of a natural progression for a lot of players, myself included. The longer the game goes on, the more mounts and transmogs we collect, the less value new ones have.

[Magneto]

utube is not a place of education in the first place, it is a place for entertainment. you want that dollar you better entertain no matter the subject or the truth. controversy, polarization, echoing your target audiences opinion, etc etc etc.

[Baza]

You're talking about Bellular, I saw that clip and it's actually pretty funny. "Double stygia bois! New game!"

Such a weird thing to get mad about, obviously some rates are being more relaxed as the game progresses, but in this case, the grind was way too big to get the rewards from it (I never bothered with it, and played only the 1st month of shadowlands anyway, but that was the impression I got).

Also the biggest WoW channel on youtube as far as I know, is AsmongoldTV, which only has clips from Asmon's streams

Many of WoW's youtubers/streamers make really good content and are very entertaining. Lets check some of the bigger ones:

Asmongold - the man, the legend. I almost never watch his streams, I'm a youtube guy, not a twitch guy, but I watch many of his clips on the AsmongoldTV channel. Very entertaining, and lots of funny moments.

Bellular - amazing work rate, great content, the addition of Matt is a welcomed one, he has 3 channels now, he's taking over youtube, and later, the world.

Preach - fantastic content and a great human being, someone to aspire to. The "drama time" series are some of the most entertaining stuff I ever listened to on youtube. It's a huge loss that he won't be covering WoW anymore. I also regret that I didn't attend any of the Preachcons, with the covid situation and him not covering WoW anymore, who knows if there will ever be another one.

Nobbel - Quality lore content. I barely watch him, because I don't care much about the lore, but he's really good at what he's doing.

Taliesin & Evitel - Good, high quality content with a lot of very nerdy jokes. Maybe he's too positive sometimes, but I like his channel.

I watch some other WoW youtubers sometimes, some of them are doing a good job IMO (signsofkelani, hazelnutty games, soulsobreezy, madseasonwow (who quit) ), and some of them less so. I don't come across bad or toxic WoW youtubers too often, but if I do, I don't stick around to watch more of their videos. One example of those is HeelVsBabyface, I don't like what he's doing.

I also want to point out that I'm not some kid who looks up to his youtube heroes, I'm 41, and I happen to enjoy some of the WoW content on youtube.

[Smallfruitbat]

I watched the clip, I get what you mean. I think this is just poking fun at Blizzard for lack lustre attempts to placate the player base. From the outset there were complaints about multiple currencies and the gating they brought with them. Now when Blizzard have taken a few big hits to their sub numbers, they're making things more available. It's not really a fix to the situation. If the two hadn't coincided I think he'd be less cynical about it.

[kranur]

They're not naive .. they simply dish out "content" based on whatever is popular to attract views.
Bashing blizz is popular? Bashing blizz it is.
Quitting wow is popular, suddenly everyone quits wow. I find particulalrly funny how someone quits wow yet almost all of their "content" is still about wow and blizz.

Kind of like some people here who claim to not have played for 10 years, yet they still come and post.

[Sadaukar]

They're not naive .. they simply dish out "content" based on whatever is popular to attract views.
Bashing blizz is popular? Bashing blizz it is.
Quitting wow is popular, suddenly everyone quits wow. I find particulalrly funny how someone quits wow yet almost all of their "content" is still about wow and blizz.

Kind of like some people here who claim to not have played for 10 years, yet they still come and post.

I don't want to disagree with ur first sentence, but if u're talking about Bellular, then he never said that he quit wow. He actively raids and to my knowledge he said before 9.1 that he wanted to do even more wow content (like m+) than normal. He's just enjoying FFXIV on the side when he has time to afaik.

[Ikza]

How ironic can a post be?
Let's find out.

99% of YouTubers who are famous have no talent and are idiots, it's also why partly why it exploded elsewhere in on minute clicks of content and photoshop everywhere else. Stupid people doing bullshit in front of even dumber people with no lives. Except for maybe Streamers now, upper middle class kids with no jobs who might be semi attractive or popular getting paid as people live vicariously through their failed shallow lives..

You're literally generalizing a mass of people and putting them all in the same category simply because you dont like that type of entertainment.

Bottom line is Mass Media Entertainment and movies follow this trend because it's much easier and cheaper than creating these emotionally bankrupt people than before, everything from music to comedy.

More of the above. You don't like it, so you're not even saying how wrong it is, you're plainly insulting everybody that doesn't share your taste. Thats how bullying and discrimination exist. Someone pretends they're above someone else because they do something they dont actually like. Thats 0 respectful and way too childish. I'm sorry.

Which is why "Cancel Culture" Otherwise known as consequences for people finding out who these people REALLY ARE gets complained about and crossed along ideologies and spectrums of thought.

You've just thrown a widespread term into the mix. This just shows how CLEARLY you don't understand what you're saying. Cancel culture has NOTHING to do with a, like you say it, consequences of finding who these people really are. Cancel culture (modern ostracism) has been dubbed as such because of how it helps wronged people feel vindicated. While I don't personally agree with it 100% (a whole other discussion with a LOT of nuances), CC is now used on everything that some people do not like, wether it's reasonable or not to call out a specific person on their behaviour.

What you're doing is actually a wrong cancel culture move: "I dont like this, I think everyone who does is an idiot and JUST LOOK AT HOW USELESS THEY ARE. CANCEL THEM."

It's the choice between doing nothing for as much as possible, and showing some effort and being reasonable.


Perfect example are list or top 10 list, of people debunking or not debunking bullshit, with even more bullshit, with no actual credibility. This trend has always been real popular for all the reasons above.

More of the same.

Please dont tell me they should be all cancelled.


Onto the actual topic:

Currently possibly the most popular youtube channel on wow (I won’t name names to not be considered an attack to them) has a video describing how the devs “decided” to double the stygia regards and how that change “was long needed” and they “finally” decided to do that and it should had been done earlier etc. etc.
I can’t fathom how that can be a popular source of “information” when it’s been clear for MANY expansions now that it’s ROUTINE to increase the rate of gaining resources and obviously that is BY DESIGN before the expansion even launches since the early content is less and people more eager to grind.

Usually some youtubers are shills of the games they play. You should also consider that's how they earn money as well. What good is there for them if they just complain and complain and incite everyone to leave the game? That will hurt their channels in the long run, if they plan to stick to WoW in this case.

Out of all the YTers, I just follow T&E, Nobbel and Hirumare. They seem to be the most correct, most neutral and are the most entertaining for me.
T&E has a clear view on the game, what it needs and how it needs to be implemented. I agree that he can be way too positive sometimes, but I dont find that to be a bad thing.
Nobbel for the lore and comments on how the game will progress story wise.
Hirumare for the nostalgia trip.

Regarding the other YTers, I dont really like their usual m.o. of overreacting to everything else and I think thats the OP's point in this post. Its not that they're naive, I just think that attracts more viewers than a plain and sober report.

[exochaft]

I've played WoW since vanilla so I'm no stranger to looooong grinds for pixels and I'm not coming with a mentality for instant gratification. The problem with SL was two fold: the currencies took too long to acquire and the rewards were lackluster. That might just be part of a natural progression for a lot of players, myself included. The longer the game goes on, the more mounts and transmogs we collect, the less value new ones have.

Another aspect is whether the activity to gain said currency is fun... which, depending on said currency, usually has not been the case for a while. If you're having fun, that can heavily reduce the negative aspects of a system or activity; the opposite is true as well: not having fun can exacerbate the negatives of a system. While how much fun an activity is depends on the individual, it's still a factor that should be kept in mind when designing content.

As a fellow long-time player since vanilla, I really enjoyed getting my Wintersaber mount, the Insane in the Membrane achievement a month after it came out, as well as collecting other various things. However, Blizz ultimately killed my experience as a collector because they made it a chore over time. The amount of mounts and pets added every patch rivals/exceeds what used to be added in an entire expansion, generally gated by a bunch of "rares" with very low drop rates and/or spawn times (I use quotations because most of them aren't what rares used to be) instead of interesting activities. If you were an achievement hunter, this suffered the same issue as mounts/pets: an insane amount of achievements that felt like they were designed just to annoy you (*cough* MoP/WoD archaeology achievements *cough*). In the end, Blizz flooded their own market to devalue mounts/pets/etc. while putting their acquisition behind uninspiring content or systems.

When it comes to currency systems and systems in general for Shadowlands, it's the exact same problem: too many systems where their implementation wasn't thought through and became chores, combined with the rewards themselves being terrible for the effort and not worth the time. I think the mentality Blizz has when it comes to trying to address giving people things to do is completely wrong, as their methodology is more about quantity rather than quality with little/no regard for fun. It's akin to governments and politicians throwing more money at a problem, when the amount of money isn't the problem... it's how you're spending the money that's almost always the issue.

[Hellobolis]

The general consensus is that people have the most fun and feel most valued when their gear took effort and time to accomplish. Some say it's too low yet, if it started off any higher, people would've complained that there's no content and that the $15 monthly bill isn't justified because they have nothing to do.

The people who complain it isn't enough are usually the minority, starting at higher rates from scratch would greatly diminish the value of the game for the majority of players. At least judging from my experiences.

wanna know how i would feel if i had grinded the renown tmog set last patch? i'd feel completely shit on by blizz instead of "proud" that i got it while it was hard.

anima gains went from a few thousand per week to a few thousand per day.

but if you complained about it back then people would say "it's designed to last the entire expansion". what a joke.

i get so much anima now i had to delete a bunch of it before they put in the new vendor for it. it's just stupid.

i thought "yeah this takes to much effort to farm, ill do it next patch when it's easier" with this covenant stuff right of the bat, but i had no idea it would become THIS trivial lol.

[epigramx]

The general consensus is that people have the most fun and feel most valued when their gear took effort and time to accomplish.

That's not consensus: that's your wrong opinion; it can objectively only be wrong because when the effort becomes extreme then it obviously becomes worse because you wouldn't even be able to do anything (e.g. imagine if Sylvanas mythic was the only raiding encounter in 9.1 to say the most extreme example).
On top of that I'm not sure that PURE GRINDING (no skill needed) helps anyone; it mainly triggers dopamine responses by tricking the mind and it requires minimal to no skill at all; some people say MMOs must be like that but that is nonsense since that's how WoW is (MMOs only have to be multiplayer).
The best experiment would be WoW WITH NO GRINDING AT ALL but good luck ever seeing that experiment even in a single patch that lasts a month because that terrifies Blizzard; the cash cow is the monthly fees for grinding; if people figure out grinding is useless to them they may move on.

[exsanguinate]

utube is not a place of education in the first place

It helped me getting my bsc.

[OokOok]

The general consensus is that people have the most fun and feel most valued when their gear took effort and time to accomplish. Some say it's too low yet, if it started off any higher, people would've complained that there's no content and that the $15 monthly bill isn't justified because they have nothing to do.

The people who complain it isn't enough are usually the minority, starting at higher rates from scratch would greatly diminish the value of the game for the majority of players. At least judging from my experiences.

Is that he general consensus? pretty sure it's

"GEAR SHOULD BE HARD TO GET! FUCK THIS CASUAL SHIT!"

"WAAAHHH I HAVENT GOT AN UPGRADE IN 2 WEEKS!"

Wow players are a walking contradiction. Which is why I don't blame blizzard for not giving a shit. Players want to work for their rewards, but also get them right away within 24hours of a new raid

[zetitup]

People have different opinions, people play games different. Some people wanted it for long, some don't.

[epigramx]

Is that he general consensus? pretty sure it's

"GEAR SHOULD BE HARD TO GET! FUCK THIS CASUAL SHIT!"

"WAAAHHH I HAVENT GOT AN UPGRADE IN 2 WEEKS!"

Wow players are a walking contradiction. Which is why I don't blame blizzard for not giving a shit. Players want to work for their rewards, but also get them right away within 24hours of a new raid

People are hardwired to want to struggle because it's nature/instinct. But at the same time WoW clearly has a hypertrophy of grinding because it clearly brings money because it clearly helps having more monthly fees because people would go through the content faster otherwise.
The game would be extremely better if there was approximately 0 grinding and the effort was mainly at dropping hard bosses on raiding and 5mans and doing pvp but I doubt Blizzard would let you see a patch like that even for a month because it would expose it's the truth.

[Low Hanging Fruit]

So people have opinions about the game and some people disagree with them? Who would have thoight? I recommend just letting it go honestly. So what if they make videos or not. This is just how the world works. If the fact they "lack" talent or make money from it all bothers you then odds are its just jealousy because obviously it's so easy anyone could do it and obviously you are the person that could easily do it because of how obviously you see it.

[Raven]

Biggest problem i have with youtubers is.

They always rush their "reaction" to information to be the first to react to it, and most of the times they havent really understood the information in the rush to be first and get alot wrong.

And then its already to late and their followers are spreading information which isnt accurate.