I had an idea last night while raiding with friends.

[Stabbyfists]

My Friends and I were doing Heroic Sylvanas and we were discussing wow and how its rough gearing alts when there is just so much things you have to do in order to get them raid ready.

I then thought of this - Add all dungeons to the Normal and Heroic Queues

What I mean by this is instead of having these max level dungeons for only one week during Timewalking, why not implement the same tech used in Normal mode dungeons and have them scale to players levels and roll them into the normal dungeon Queues and have level 60 versions of them in the random Heroic Dungeon queue.

This would also enable them to bring back another currency long forgotten - Justice badges.

Justice then can be used to buy item level 210 gear off a vendor as well as the conduit upgrades that can boost a conduit up to 226 ilvl. This would go a long long LONG way for

As for Timewalking - It can still exist However I feel like its such a waste that you only do some of these dungeons while leveling and never again until its that expansion's time walking week. Also I would like to see Timewalking expanded on with more raids.

I would kill for a Timewalking version of raids past Firelands, also get Legion in the rotation now. We had WoD during BFA so why wasn't Legion added during Shadowlands?

Mop - Throne of Thunder
WoD - Blackrock Foundry
Legion - The Nighthold

I dunno, I feel like this would be a nice way to gear alts between Korthia and such.

[Qnubi]

The problem is not gearing an alt, the problem are all the chores to do. Gearing was never an issue in WoW. They just created too many sub-systems of power that you have to feed time into, that's why we have this shitty alt-unfriendly situation where nobody wants to play more than 1 character..

[Kumorii]

Curious, why would this be required or enable the idea of bringing back justice badges? Badges work perfectly well with the current dungeon system... we even have valor which already proves that, you just have to tweak the usage of them and change the cap.

[OokOok]

The problem is not gearing an alt, the problem are all the chores to do. Gearing was never an issue in WoW. They just created too many sub-systems of power that you have to feed time into, that's why we have this shitty alt-unfriendly situation where nobody wants to play more than 1 character..

The problem is gearing though. Look at just shadowlands

In Legion and even BFA, if you made an alt it wasn't a big deal, even if it was the last tier of the expansion, You could just grind lfr/M+ and eventually you'd get WF/TF pieces to catch you up, and doing that would also get you azerite. But with the removal of WF/TF alts are fucked

This is only the 2nd tier, and you hit 60 then what? Well You need to get ilvl, well that's easy you can buy all 200 pieces. Except Normal drops 226 which means if you expect to get invited to anything you need atleast a 220-226 ilvl. "use your own key" ppl will still leave when they see you as a carry. WELL do lfr, cool, I got 1 piece and 1 shard in the last 2 weeks on my alt. So now I need to hope I get 2 more shards in another 4 weeks of the same variety or i'm out of luck.
And those don't even work in M+ so you're still behind on ilvl. While doing that you need to farm conduits, and legendaries and then uprgade them from farming torghast. Unless your legendary drops from a world boss who won't be up in 4 weeks then fuck you right?

OH THE VAULT, "Blizz made the vault which gives you 9 options a week" yeah if you pvp and manage to get in 10 Mythic + runs at 200 ilvl.

It's seriously the most unfriendly alt expansion i've ever seen.

[Greyvax]

Timewalking raids have been a massive failure.

Nobody ever wants to do them. I tried doing Ulduar once, and people were too braindead to pull off the 1 mechanic on Ignis. Even with multiple explanations, the raid failed and disbanded.

They need to make it LFR level of difficulty and queueable.

[potis]

snip

Gearing aint the problem, problem is that the players have gotten too spoilt.

Give someone a tiny taste of a cake and they ask for all of it type of situation.

They added all the extra paths to gear up, but its not enough.

Majority was "Happy" mostly in LFR/Irrelevant gear for expansions in a row, suddenly they arent, because of all the freebie gear mechanics, like weekly chest.

"WHY DO I HAVE TO TRYHARD FOR A +15 (Joke difficulty content) MAKE IT DROP HIGHEST ITEM LEVEL AT +5, NO ONE CARES ABOUT HARD CONTENT".

They created different paths but players are too dumb to realize the end cap "their cieling" is still the same if you dont actually put some effort, no, the cap must lower to them instead suddenly after so many years.

Expansion is "suffering" from the fact players are getting older and no one has time or the patience to do weekly requirements on multiple characters, i know i dont for example.

They are taking 1 step forward, 2 steps back with some mechanics that dont make no sense, all because the majority of the players has to sub for a second and third month.

[Ladey Gags]

Timewalking raids have been a massive failure.

Nobody ever wants to do them. I tried doing Ulduar once, and people were too braindead to pull off the 1 mechanic on Ignis. Even with multiple explanations, the raid failed and disbanded.

They need to make it LFR level of difficulty and queueable.

You must have had a really bad group, I did ulduar at the beginning of SL when it dropped all that loot and we cleared it in about 3 hours with only 3 wipes—1 on cat lady, 1 on vezax, and 1 on yogg. We had a full group of 25 too

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snip

That’s not gonna happen, blizz doeant wasn’t people to gear fast. They want alts and new players to be on a treadmill to increase playtime. They don’t care about keeping people playing for fun they literally don’t even if it meant more people playing, they literally only care about the no life hardcore NEETS who play 16 hours a day every day. THAT is their target demographic now

[OrangeJuice]

Gearing aint the problem, problem is that the players have gotten too spoilt.

Give someone a tiny taste of a cake and they ask for all of it type of situation.

They added all the extra paths to gear up, but its not enough.

Majority was "Happy" mostly in LFR/Irrelevant gear for expansions in a row, suddenly they arent, because of all the freebie gear mechanics, like weekly chest.

"WHY DO I HAVE TO TRYHARD FOR A +15 (Joke difficulty content) MAKE IT DROP HIGHEST ITEM LEVEL AT +5, NO ONE CARES ABOUT HARD CONTENT".

They created different paths but players are too dumb to realize the end cap "their cieling" is still the same if you dont actually put some effort, no, the cap must lower to them instead suddenly after so many years.

Expansion is "suffering" from the fact players are getting older and no one has time or the patience to do weekly requirements on multiple characters, i know i dont for example.

They are taking 1 step forward, 2 steps back with some mechanics that dont make no sense, all because the majority of the players has to sub for a second and third month.

Don't you dare use cake's name in vain. I like cake. It makes me feel good. I know what stores sell the best cake, and I go there to get that cake. If they stop selling that cake, I stop going there. But, on the other hand, if I'm going there to buy that cake, and they happen to be selling milk too, I might just buy some milk while I'm there. Do you understand?

[crakerjack]

I don’t think it would be beneficial to resurrect all old content. Gameplay and mechanics has only continued to improve over the years and old content is either mechanically stale or tank n’ spank. It’s also more beneficial to make sure everyone is doing the same content because your familiarize yourself with it and helps people with keystones. If we’re were doing every dungeon, people would have to remember too many mechanics.

In the end, normal and heroic dungeons are redundant because the ilvl of gear that drops from them is far lower than what most people use. Even on alts, it’s not hard to get into a mythic dungeon group which awards better gear.

The community is already shrinking and I believe increasing the pool of dungeons to queue from would only thin the community out more.

[Temp name]

Justice then can be used to buy item level 210 gear off a vendor as well as the conduit upgrades that can boost a conduit up to 226 ilvl. This would go a long long LONG way for

210 gear is worthless though.
It was basically worthless last patch and is 100% worthless this patch. You can get full 210 gear from Korthia in like a week after all, and full 220 in 2-3 weeks. Full 233 in 5-6 depending on how much you grind out rep for tier 6 archivists to unlock it

[Orwell7]

I still do believe that we need max-level progression, as the game stands. (we could have a much longer leveling experience where the "endgame" is shared between near-max level characters, but thats another story)

Gating and letting players get more-and-more powerful AS THE STORY PROGRESSES is good. Unlocking new abilities like the Legion Artifacts, or getting new abilities like essences could work.
But they need to make this shit account-wide, or so to say, independent of your characters/alts, BECAUSE the story is unfolding THEREFORE we get stronger. We need even more "timegating" of these new abilities/power upgrades, like get a meaningful (5%) thing every month.

This way every month the game rejuvenates itself, different specs could get different upgrades, one month fire mage is on top, next? survival hunter or shadow priest.

Even WF guilds could prepare for this as the first month is set in stone, no meaningful player power differences across the game (besides gear).
Also, please, just ignore WF guilds. Don't burden them with useless grindy shit. Hell, don't burden ME with that!

(please keep in mind that this suggestion is only a piece of the puzzle)

[Vongimi]

The answer is not gearing faster. Gearing fast is what created this problem of "You have to be higher ilvl then the instance drops in order to join this raid" issues. And raids being balanced around having that high of gear level. The issue is the endless chores. I don't want to do korthia on multiple characters. Or the covenant campaign. Or torghast. I'm actually pretty okay with Torghast myself, but imo there should be a catchup mechanic for it if you have already reached a point on your main. Like you get double soul ash/cinders up to a cap (that is equal to your first max rank legendary).

And then PvP gearing... yeah holy shit that needs BFAs catchup mechanic of 50% extra conquest, dunno why they did away with that.

[Tubben]

It took me 2 Weeks to Level an Lock from 1 to 60 get renown to cap and 230 ilv. With more playtime it could be done in 1 Week. I dont think gearing is an issue, and renown you can get pretty fast also. I started on friday and had my first normal sod raid on sunday evening with an ilv of 202. I dont really see an problem with getting an alt to raidready.

[Coldkil]

The problem is not gearing an alt, the problem are all the chores to do. Gearing was never an issue in WoW. They just created too many sub-systems of power that you have to feed time into, that's why we have this shitty alt-unfriendly situation where nobody wants to play more than 1 character..

Exactly. Leveling and getting drops/starter gear is easy. The massive time sink is on farming renown, thorghast, etc.

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It took me 2 Weeks to Level an Lock from 1 to 60 get renown to cap and 230 ilv. With more playtime it could be done in 1 Week. I dont think gearing is an issue, and renown you can get pretty fast also. I started on friday and had my first normal sod raid on sunday evening with an ilv of 202. I dont really see an problem with getting an alt to raidready.

You were 202 ilvl. So you basically got carried in the raid lol

EDIT: more in detail, you have a guild group willing/farming normal runs to gear alts. In two weeks you don't have even enough currency to get a deent ilvl leggo, until you got someone geared that ran you through higher thorghast layers. Which isn't wrong, but it's gearing an alt, it's getting boosted by friends/guild.

[Wavebossa]

The problem is gearing though. Look at just shadowlands

In Legion and even BFA, if you made an alt it wasn't a big deal, even if it was the last tier of the expansion, You could just grind lfr/M+ and eventually you'd get WF/TF pieces to catch you up, and doing that would also get you azerite. But with the removal of WF/TF alts are fucked

This is only the 2nd tier, and you hit 60 then what? Well You need to get ilvl, well that's easy you can buy all 200 pieces. Except Normal drops 226 which means if you expect to get invited to anything you need atleast a 220-226 ilvl. "use your own key" ppl will still leave when they see you as a carry. WELL do lfr, cool, I got 1 piece and 1 shard in the last 2 weeks on my alt. So now I need to hope I get 2 more shards in another 4 weeks of the same variety or i'm out of luck.
And those don't even work in M+ so you're still behind on ilvl. While doing that you need to farm conduits, and legendaries and then uprgade them from farming torghast. Unless your legendary drops from a world boss who won't be up in 4 weeks then fuck you right?

OH THE VAULT, "Blizz made the vault which gives you 9 options a week" yeah if you pvp and manage to get in 10 Mythic + runs at 200 ilvl.

It's seriously the most unfriendly alt expansion i've ever seen.

While I agree with what you have said, and I agree that it is very alt-unfriendly, the person you quoted is actually right.

Yes gearing alts is harder now than it is ever been, but it isn't the biggest hurdle.
Its the other systems.

Have a new character that has a BiS leggo from CN? Goodluck
Have a new character that was carried through SoD, has 3set, but only has 1 single shard? Goodluck
Have a new character that has 10 renown? Goodluck
Want to upgrade mythic+ gear with your mains KSM S2? Nope, doesn't apply like it did in S1, so Goodluck
Have a new character with no good conduits? Get to farming, Goodluck

etc etc etc. I can go on and on.

I currently play 4 alts, down from 7 in 9.0.5
Not because I stopped enjoying the other characters, not because I cant get 230 ilvl easy on them in guild carry runs... but because there isn't enough time in my day for me to have that many characters caught up.


My guild can run my 205 alt through a 15, time it, and trade the 236ilvl gear to me.
My guild cant trade me shards
My guild cant trade me soul cinders
My guild cant trade me korthia knowledge/rep/etc
My guild cant trade me renown

I agree gearing sucks, it sucks bad. But everything else sucks a little bit more.

[Inoculate]

My Friends and I were doing Heroic Sylvanas and we were discussing wow and how its rough gearing alts when there is just so much things you have to do in order to get them raid ready.

I then thought of this - Add all dungeons to the Normal and Heroic Queues

What I mean by this is instead of having these max level dungeons for only one week during Timewalking, why not implement the same tech used in Normal mode dungeons and have them scale to players levels and roll them into the normal dungeon Queues and have level 60 versions of them in the random Heroic Dungeon queue.

This would also enable them to bring back another currency long forgotten - Justice badges.

Justice then can be used to buy item level 210 gear off a vendor as well as the conduit upgrades that can boost a conduit up to 226 ilvl. This would go a long long LONG way for

As for Timewalking - It can still exist However I feel like its such a waste that you only do some of these dungeons while leveling and never again until its that expansion's time walking week. Also I would like to see Timewalking expanded on with more raids.

I would kill for a Timewalking version of raids past Firelands, also get Legion in the rotation now. We had WoD during BFA so why wasn't Legion added during Shadowlands?

Mop - Throne of Thunder
WoD - Blackrock Foundry
Legion - The Nighthold

I dunno, I feel like this would be a nice way to gear alts between Korthia and such.

Seems like you are describing FF14. Not saying you should play it but it's the exact system they use.

[Azerate]

I feel like some sort of scaling of the old content to max level will happen at some point. Maybe a big feature of 10.0? The tech is there cause it's used for leveling, all that's left is to throw capped players into that system and give decent rewards. It only makes sense, makes more content for everyone and people just like doing that (+ it works in ff14, so blizz might like to go that route as well).

Timewalking is fine (dungeons) but the timewalking raids, as mentioned above, are a huge failure. There is literally zero incentive to do them, except for BT which is required for warglaive transmog. For timewalking raids to work they need to offer GOOD/USEFUL rewards. Maybe not necessarily gear, but something an average player wants and can use.

[Myokony]

The problem is not gearing an alt, the problem are all the chores to do. Gearing was never an issue in WoW. They just created too many sub-systems of power that you have to feed time into, that's why we have this shitty alt-unfriendly situation where nobody wants to play more than 1 character..

"I wanna play a 2nd character, put no effort into it and be on par with people that do!"

[Tubben]

Exactly. Leveling and getting drops/starter gear is easy. The massive time sink is on farming renown, thorghast, etc.

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You were 202 ilvl. So you basically got carried in the raid lol

EDIT: more in detail, you have a guild group willing/farming normal runs to gear alts. In two weeks you don't have even enough currency to get a deent ilvl leggo, until you got someone geared that ran you through higher thorghast layers. Which isn't wrong, but it's gearing an alt, it's getting boosted by friends/guild.

Well yes and no.

First, it was an alt. I transfered enough soul ash and korthia gear to get him geared up and got him an 235 leggo. And it was an chill raid, i did not really got carried, atleast i was in the middle of the pack dps wise, but yes, everyone had an higher ilv than me. I did Torghast Lv 10 on my own, solo. Not with friends. Second week we did it with an group of 4, 5 staring L12. And at that point i was at around 225-230. Getting renown is really, really fast. That is absolute no problem.

So, no i was not boosted by my guild or friends. I boosed myself with my mainchar. I got carried through tazavesh HM once, with a guildgroup, thats why i said yes and no.

While i agree, for a new player it will take longer to get raidready because of gearing, it's no problem for alts. But renown and soul ash (for 235 leggo) is no problem at all.

[arkanon]

My Friends and I were doing Heroic Sylvanas and we were discussing wow and how its rough gearing alts when there is just so much things you have to do in order to get them raid ready.

That cant be right - someone said today it would take "a few hours" to get heroic/mythic ready on a new toon / forgotten alt.

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"I wanna play a 2nd character, put no effort into it and be on par with people that do!"

Lets be honest here - that is nothing at all like what the person said - and putting it in quotations doesnt change that.