The Most evil of every race

[Shaqthefat]

Wait, King Thaurissian makes the Dwarf list, while Magni gets away for assassinating him? I feel like given Magni's treatment of Moira compared to Thaurissian, you have those two reversed.

Magni wasn't more evil than Thaurissian lol. Thaurissian kidnaps Moira to hold her hostage from Ironforge, Magni has him assassinated, because he still believed Moria was a prisoner and not his willing wife.

Not to mention Magni later spent two expansion communing with Azeroth to save the her from the Legion, the Old Gods and the massive hemorrhaging of her blood across the surface. This is in comparison to Thaurissian who made a deal with Ragnaros, putting the Dark Irons into his service.

[Aucald]

they are biologically, the same race, the draenei is just a group that renamed themselves

Race isn't really a function of biology, it's a division defined by phenotypic characteristics. Since the Eredar are now demonic, having traits like wings, horns, scales, and other signifiers of Fel corruption, there's quite a stark difference between the Draenei and the Eredar. Being demons, the Eredar are now also probably biologically distinct as well, as the Fel is mutative and often causes physiological and biological alterations. There are a great many Draenei now who were never of original pre-demonic Eredar extraction, so it's a pretty fundamental distinction.

[Combatbutler]

Race isn't really a function of biology, it's a division defined by phenotypic characteristics. Since the Eredar are now demonic, having traits like wings, horns, scales, and other signifiers of Fel corruption, there's quite a stark difference between the Draenei and the Eredar. Being demons, the Eredar are now also probably biologically distinct as well, as the Fel is mutative and often causes physiological and biological alterations. There are a great many Draenei now who were never of original pre-demonic Eredar extraction, so it's a pretty fundamental distinction.

While true, both groups are different now, the argument still somewhat holds, because ultimately the eredar chose to become this and even among those that ran a good portion later decided to join the vast majority of their people, despite knowing of the atrocities they were committing, or later sold themselves to another cosmic power.

The children of Argus as a whole are pretty much the most corrupted and vile beings in the warcraft universe, with a mortal origin.

[Progenitor Aquarius]

I always thought that Eredar were corrupted Draenei who originally lived in Argus.

[Combatbutler]

I always thought that Eredar were corrupted Draenei who originally lived in Argus.

Fun fact, Draenei literally means exiled ones.

[MrLachyG]

definitely agree with most of your list however I would list Kel'thuzad above Arthas.

Most evil Pandaren is definitely Nomi. fuckin' asshole burned so much food, if that doesn't make him evil I don't know what does. as for Worgen I would say Ralaar Fangfire is a worthy candidate.

[DatToffer]

Milhouse Manastorm

[Aucald]

While true, both groups are different now, the argument still somewhat holds, because ultimately the eredar chose to become this and even among those that ran a good portion later decided to join the vast majority of their people, despite knowing of the atrocities they were committing, or later sold themselves to another cosmic power.

The children of Argus as a whole are pretty much the most corrupted and vile beings in the warcraft universe, with a mortal origin.

The pre-demonic Eredar were pointedly tricked, though; what they were promised by Sargeras: "untold power, prestige and the opportunity to transform primitive worlds into peaceful sanctuaries" (Chonicle Vol. 1, pg. 51). The Eredar believed Sargeras to be beneficent and altruistic as they were, generally speaking, being described as believing they could "shape the universe into a better and more benevolent place." Instead, they were forcibly twisted into demons and became part of an army whose purpose was universal omnicide. They gained power, certainly; but nothing of their original benevolent desires remained in their corrupted forms.

[Combatbutler]

The pre-demonic Eredar were pointedly tricked, though; what they were promised by Sargeras: "untold power, prestige and the opportunity to transform primitive worlds into peaceful sanctuaries" (Chonicle Vol. 1, pg. 51). The Eredar believed Sargeras to be beneficent and altruistic as they were, generally speaking, being described as believing they could "shape the universe into a better and more benevolent place." Instead, they were forcibly twisted into demons and became part of an army whose purpose was universal omnicide. They gained power, certainly; but nothing of their original benevolent desires remained in their corrupted forms.

I'd still say they were always very akin to Azshara in terms of baseline goals of empire building, especially after it became clear what the pact would mean, the eredar did not resist on mass or fled, only a handful of them ever did. The change was not instantaneous and even among those that were pure so to speak, regretted their choice down the line, trying to get back into the eredar's good graces.

Ultimately the children of argus drowned the universe in blood

"Yes. Light willing, when the last victory is won, I will sit in a tower built on one of the lost
worlds, and I will record them all as my penance."

"Penance? For what? What have you done but help, Velen?"

"I failed long ago to turn my brothers from their course. And creation has paid the price."

[Aucald]

I'd still say they were always very akin to Azshara in terms of baseline goals of empire building, especially after it became clear what the pact would mean, the eredar did not resist on mass or fled, only a handful of them ever did. The change was not instantaneous and even among those that were pure so to speak, regretted their choice down the line, trying to get back into the eredar's good graces.

Ultimately the children of argus drowned the universe in blood

It would seem the inverse is likely for the Eredar when compared to Azshara. Azshara was always corrupt with power lust and vainglory and hid it beneath a facade of glamour and presumed enlightenment. The Eredar actually were altruistic and are described as desiring to improve the universe, but were forcibly corrupted by Sargeras' power and become demons. The change into demons seemed to spread quickly based on Velen's recollection, and even those among the soon-to-be Draenei like Talgath were shown to have been converted and had disguised their demonic nature to ensure Velen and his retinue were unable to leave Argus. The flight from Argus was described to have happened very quickly, so quickly that many of Velen's former followers were left behind on Argus and later became the Krokul Broken.

[Combatbutler]

It would seem the inverse is likely for the Eredar when compared to Azshara. Azshara was always corrupt with power lust and vainglory and hid it beneath a facade of glamour and presumed enlightenment. The Eredar actually were altruistic and are described as desiring to improve the universe, but were forcibly corrupted by Sargeras' power and become demons.

I disagree especially after we see how the draenei themselves turned out to be riddled with powerhungry traitors and all too willing to throw themselves at a greater power to serve and bring about "order"

The change into demons seemed to spread quickly based on Velen's recollection, and even those among the soon-to-be Draenei like Talgath were shown to have been converted and had disguised their demonic nature to ensure Velen and his retinue were unable to leave Argus. The flight from Argus was described to have happened very quickly, so quickly that many of Velen's former followers were left behind on Argus and later became the Krokul Broken.

Velen didn't trust most people, which is why they were so few, yet even among his most trusted and loyal was someone who embraced the change wholeheartedly.

[Skirdus]

Human: Arthas (then Kel'thuzzad)

Gotta remember that you don't necessarily have to have evil intent to be evil. Arthas did a lot of what he did because he felt it was the right thing, even if it wasn't, whereas someone like Gul'dan knew very well how evil he was and embraced it; and even though he was weaker than characters like Kil'jaeden or Sargeras, he was still arguably more "evil" in his intentions than either of them, since raw power is separate from how evil a person actually is.

I'd say in terms of true "evil", Blackmoore is probably the dude that most comes to mind. He may not have been nearly as powerful as most other humans, but he was definitely one of the most depraved characters to date, molesting and later killing Taretha Foxton as well as essentially aiming to enslave the orcish race; not because he felt they deserved it, but because he wanted to use them to conquer the rest of humanity, which he actually succeeded in doing in an alternate timeline

[Rhlor]

hmmm... we have a stellar crew:


Human: Arthas (then Kel'thuzzad)
Orc: Gul'dan (then Garrosh)

Draenei: Kil'jaeden (then Archimonde)
Thalassian Elf: Sylvanas (then Dark'han)

Night Elf: Azshara (then Xavius)
Worgen: none

Forsaken: Putris
Tauren: Magatha Grimtotem

Dwarf: King Thaurissian
Gnome: King Mechagon

Goblin: Gallywix
Panda:

Troll: Prophet Zul

Interesting how several horde leaders actually make the list of most evil of race. However, it's the so called pretty/good races that are typically famous for virtue that have the most evil race members. (

darkhan>>>>>>>>>>>sylvanas

darkhan was evil without being an undead

[Aucald]

I disagree especially after we see how the draenei themselves turned out to be riddled with powerhungry traitors and all too willing to throw themselves at a greater power to serve and bring about "order"

There are Draenei who later proved susceptible to the Legion's entreaties, sure; as represented by traitors like Othaar or the Sargerei from the AU continuity. But they're a marked minority of the Draenei people all the same.

Velen didn't trust most people, which is why they were so few, yet even among his most trusted and loyal was someone who embraced the change wholeheartedly.

We don't know if Talgath embraced the change wholeheartedly or not - and even still, the fact that Sargeras actively lied and misled the Eredar about the change in the first place is still present.

[Xez]

WC3 Kael'thas did nothing wrong and they completely assassinated his character in TBC

[Combatbutler]

There are Draenei who later proved susceptible to the Legion's entreaties, sure; as represented by traitors like Othaar or the Sargerei from the AU continuity. But they're a marked minority of the Draenei people all the same.

The draenei are a drop in the ocean of what their people became, they represent the purest of them and yet even they marked through their subservience to their naaru masters.

We don't know if Talgath embraced the change wholeheartedly or not - and even still, the fact that Sargeras actively lied and misled the Eredar about the change in the first place is still present.

Sargeras did the same with the highborne and ultimately pretty much half the caste rebelled, despite them being on loyalty koolaid that turned demons against sargeras.

But lets use Velen's own words

We disagreed with others in our world. We chose not to sell our people into slavery, and for that we were exiled.

[Tarba]

hmmm... we have a stellar crew:


Human: Arthas (then Kel'thuzzad)
Orc: Gul'dan (then Garrosh)

Draenei: Kil'jaeden (then Archimonde)
Thalassian Elf: Sylvanas (then Dark'han)

Night Elf: Azshara (then Xavius)
Worgen: none

Forsaken: Putris
Tauren: Magatha Grimtotem

Dwarf: King Thaurissian
Gnome: King Mechagon

Goblin: Gallywix
Panda:

Troll: Prophet Zul

Interesting how several horde leaders actually make the list of most evil of race. However, it's the so called pretty/good races that are typically famous for virtue that have the most evil race members. (

Arthas was not evil.
And even when completely corrupted and controled he did not try to erase all reality like what Anduin is doing right now.
So Garithos as uncorrupted because he tried to genocide his own allies instead of fighting the scourge.
Else, as corrupted, Anduin because he is trying to do worse than lich king Arthas.

As worgen Genn. A guy who ragequit because he can't do a genocide is not quite a good guy.

Sylvanas was not an evil high elf.

[Combatbutler]

darkhan>>>>>>>>>>>sylvanas

darkhan was evil without being an undead

The screecher caused so much more suffering, though she is like

https://youtu.be/5u8vd_YNbTw?t=8

[Aucald]

The draenei are a drop in the ocean of what their people became, they represent the purest of them and yet even they marked through their subservience to their naaru masters.

Further underscoring the strata of difference between the Eredar and the Draenei, yes.

Sargeras did the same with the highborne and ultimately pretty much half the caste rebelled, despite them being on loyalty koolaid that turned demons against sargeras.

But lets use Velen's own words

Sargeras didn't seem to need to misrepresent himself or his people to the Highborne, given that Azshara was onboard with his goals from the get-go with no need for deception. She didn't care if Azeroth was laid waste if it meant she could attain effective godhood - nothing matters to Azshara but Azshara, after all. This is very different from the ploy Sargeras used to acquire the Eredar for the Legion. Velen is also speaking in hindsight, with full knowledge of what became of the Eredar. Even Velen didn't know what Sargeras truly intended until the Naaru revealed his true agenda - he had suspicions, but nothing more.

[Combatbutler]

Further underscoring the strata of difference between the Eredar and the Draenei, yes.

Both being subservient puppets for their respective greater powers, both are slaves.

Sargeras didn't seem to need to misrepresent himself or his people to the Highborne, given that Azshara was onboard with his goals from the get-go with no need for deception. She didn't care if Azeroth was laid waste if it meant she could attain effective godhood - nothing matters to Azshara but Azshara, after all. This is very different from the ploy Sargeras used to acquire the Eredar for the Legion. Velen is also speaking in hindsight, with full knowledge of what became of the Eredar. Even Velen didn't know what Sargeras truly intended until the Naaru revealed his true agenda - he had suspicions, but nothing more.

He used pretty much the exact same argument, sargeras promised Azshara a perfect world, much like he promised the eredar the perfect universe, not to mention the eredar were always aware they would become conquerors, velen saw what was to come and initially was amazed by it, until he looked down and realized he had become a demon.