Imagine if the game had no grinding AT ALL (or almost) with these attributes

[epigramx]

1) You enter the game and you're immediately a geared "Hero" (you're already a "Hero" in lore anyway) and you are immediately geared to do anything currently in game including Sylvanas mythic (obviously: normal mode might have to be removed and some bosses might have to be buffed because of this and that is fine).
2) As a result: you focus mainly on PROGRESS and the true prestige in the game is who had the SKILL and determination and STRATEGY to be the fastest at dropping a boss and not who is also a no lifer that grinds all day.
3) Bonus PvP benefit: PvPers will be the happiest of all. Purely multiplayer games should have 0 gearing or grinding benefits because they are exclusively about fair competition between humans.

[Ninix]

1) You enter the game and you're immediately a geared "Hero" (you're already a "Hero" in lore anyway) and you are immediately geared to do anything currently in game including Sylvanas mythic (obviously: normal mode might have to be removed and some bosses might have to be buffed because of this and that is fine).
2) As a result: you focus mainly on PROGRESS and the true prestige in the game is who had the SKILL and determination and STRATEGY to be the fastest at dropping a boss and not who is also a no lifer that grinds all day.
3) Bonus PvP benefit: PvPers will be the happiest of all. Purely multiplayer games should have 0 gearing or grinding benefits because they are exclusively about fair competition between humans.

And how exactly is doing the same raid and dungeons every other day not "grinding"?

[Daedius]

You missed the part where this is an RPG, and gearing [improving your character] is a core part of it...

[Ivarr]

I like grinding. The game has too little of it, and it's all shoehorned into the same location. There are plenty of games that focus on competitive skill and do it a hundred times better than anything an MMORPG can ever offer.

[Lochton]

1) You enter the game and you're immediately a geared "Hero" (you're already a "Hero" in lore anyway) and you are immediately geared to do anything currently in game including Sylvanas mythic (obviously: normal mode might have to be removed and some bosses might have to be buffed because of this and that is fine).
2) As a result: you focus mainly on PROGRESS and the true prestige in the game is who had the SKILL and determination and STRATEGY to be the fastest at dropping a boss and not who is also a no lifer that grinds all day.
3) Bonus PvP benefit: PvPers will be the happiest of all. Purely multiplayer games should have 0 gearing or grinding benefits because they are exclusively about fair competition between humans.

That sounds freaking boring from the viewpoint of an RPG, even an MMORPG at that, much worse. The idea does not welcome development or actual progression, just offers people a template, go play. It is basically a MOBA MMO then, as everyone is geared up and ready.

Already horrible enough that our characters are elevated higher than a lot of the actual heroes of the game.

[epigramx]

And how exactly is doing the same raid and dungeons every other day not "grinding"?

Hence the "almost". It's LIMITED that way. EXTREMELY limited compared to the current situation.

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You missed the part where this is an RPG, and gearing [improving your character] is a core part of it...

RPG has NOTHING to do with grinding. MMO has NOTHING to do with grinding. Stop having the delusion that because BLIZZARD did something in a way that's how it should always be done because the only thing mmorpgs need to be mmorpgs is being massively multiplayer and role playing full stop.

[Kumorii]

nope, progressing my character is big part of the game.
MMORPG's and regular RPG's biggest genre defining thing is that you progress your character.

I don't even know what you would define this sort of game. It would be very similar to Left 4 Dead kind of games. Not gameplay, but the way it works. The thing you can do is play small maps with others over multiple difficulties. Only difference is you would have some bigger maps that would take longer.

[epigramx]

I like grinding. The game has too little of it, and it's all shoehorned into the same location. There are plenty of games that focus on competitive skill and do it a hundred times better than anything an MMORPG can ever offer.

We could still have grinding, for VANITY items, collections and mounts and transmog and other stuff that NEVER affect BATTLE (including battle pets!).

[Daedius]

RPG has NOTHING to do with grinding. MMO has NOTHING to do with grinding. Stop having the delusion that because BLIZZARD did something in a way that's how it should always be done because the only thing mmorpgs need to be mmorpgs is being massively multiplayer and role playing full stop.

You're the one being delusional wanting to change a fundamental part of the game...

If you don't like it, piss off and play another game that suits your needs, frankly. Go play Fortnite.

[Niwes]

It seems you confuse "gearing" with "grinding"...

The correct question would be:

What if you start a new character and he has no gear, but all rep, all renown, all soulbinds, stygia, anima, all campaign quests, etc. ? (I.e. lets say the same values as your main, or i.e. covenants etc. not even exists)

But the char has lets say 190 quest leveling gear.

Then you have to gear your char. But not to grind something.

In short: Like it was in older xpacs, before "systems"

Gearing and grinding are 2 diff things.

[epigramx]

That sounds freaking boring from the viewpoint of an RPG, even an MMORPG at that, much worse. The idea does not welcome development or actual progression, just offers people a template, go play. It is basically a MOBA MMO then, as everyone is geared up and ready.

Already horrible enough that our characters are elevated higher than a lot of the actual heroes of the game.

There's nothing in the concept of MMORPG that requires grinding. It must be online massively multiplayer and it must be role playing.
You seem to have the delusion that just because Blizzard or others did something in a way that's the only way to do it.

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It seems you confuse "gearing" with "grinding"...

The correct question would be:

What if you start a new character and he has no gear, but all rep, all renown, all soulbinds, stygia, anima all campaign quests, etc. ? (I.e. lets say the same values as your main, or i.e. covenants etc. not even exists)

But the char has lets say 190 quest leveling gear.

Then you have to gear your char. But not to grind something.

In short: Like it was in older xpacs, before "systems"

This is grinding

Potato - patato. If you grind to gear YOU GRIND. You can't polish a turd.

[Soon-TM]

1) You enter the game and you're immediately a geared "Hero" (you're already a "Hero" in lore anyway) and you are immediately geared to do anything currently in game including Sylvanas mythic (obviously: normal mode might have to be removed and some bosses might have to be buffed because of this and that is fine).
2) As a result: you focus mainly on PROGRESS and the true prestige in the game is who had the SKILL and determination and STRATEGY to be the fastest at dropping a boss and not who is also a no lifer that grinds all day.
3) Bonus PvP benefit: PvPers will be the happiest of all. Purely multiplayer games should have 0 gearing or grinding benefits because they are exclusively about fair competition between humans.

Looks like LoL or Fortnite would suit you better tbh. Ditto for all the self-styled hardcore crowd who want to turn WoW into World of Lobbycraft.

[Niwes]

There's nothing in the concept of MMORPG that requires grinding. It must be online massively multiplayer and it must be role playing.
You seem to have the delusion that just because Blizzard or others did something in a way that's the only way to do it.

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Potato - patato. If you grind to gear YOU GRIND. You can't polish a turd.

In most MMOS grinding is optional. Like Argent Dawn rep in Vanilla. The problem is when grinding results in player power and char power progression. Normally solely gearing is used for that. If you add player power progression to grinding, it is no longer optional.

Thats why ppl these days dont understand the difference between gearing and grinding

Grinding was and should be something you CAN do, if you wanna sink time in game and become the hero with the coolest mount.

Gearing is what you MUST do, when being competitive.

Blizz did the worst possible: they mixed that. Results: see comments of modern wow community. Search for the term "Treadmill"

[Ryzeth]

Imagine if you stopped making terrible threads.

[Asrialol]

Progressing your character is the whole point of this game, really.

The hard part here is for Blizzard to make it so that people who play the game 6 or even 10+ hours per day (quite a few of them exists, poor souls) can still have ways to have meaningful character progression during their playtime, while those who play 6-10 hours per week, 1-2 hours per day, or whatever also has the same, without feeling they're way too far behind in terms of character power.

I feel like they're handling the last part there quite nicely, as a person who plays a hour or so per day can get their mythic+ score up to give access to gear upgrades to a good level.

As for the first part, I'm not really sure how it is right now, as I don't play that much. Though I guess those people can find other ways to progress their characters that don't necessarily give character power, such as a higher m+ score, etc?

[epigramx]

In most MMOS grinding is optional. Like Argent Dawn rep in Vanilla. The problem is when grinding results in player power and char power progression. Normally solely gearing is used for that. If you add player power progression to grinding, it is no longer optional.

Thats why ppl these days dont understand the difference between gearing and grinding

Yes exactly. And the irony is someone told me in another forum about the same topic that there is supposedly "progression" with grinding.
With what I say it's the PUREST form of progression because you don't do MUNDANE stuff like Korthia but only use SKILL.

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Progressing your character is the whole point of this game, really.

The hard part here is for Blizzard to make it so that people who play the game 6 or even 10+ hours per day (quite a few of them exists, poor souls) can still have ways to have meaningful character progression during their playtime, while those who play 6-10 hours per week, 1-2 hours per day, or whatever also has the same, without feeling they're way too far behind in terms of character power.

I feel like they're handling the last part there quite nicely, as a person who plays a hour or so per day can get their mythic+ score up to give access to gear upgrades to a good level.

As for the first part, I'm not really sure how it is right now, as I don't play that much. Though I guess those people can find other ways to progress their characters that don't necessarily give character power, such as a higher m+ score, etc?

Speak of the devil. The predictable nonsense that it's supposedly progression to do MUNDANE stuff like Korthia. The PUREST form of progression is actually using SKILL without mundane grinding.

[Lorgar Aurelian]

Even games like dark souls which focus mostly on bosses exploring areas and figuring out how to deal with them has gearing and levelling, next to no one wants a game without those things and just bosses.

[Niwes]

You're the one being delusional wanting to change a fundamental part of the game...

If you don't like it, piss off and play another game that suits your needs, frankly. Go play Fortnite.

Nearly every MMORPG had grinds. But nearly none of them linked grinds to char power progression

[Erkor]

You're describing a pve private server

[epigramx]

Even games like dark souls which focus mostly on bosses exploring areas and figuring out how to deal with them has gearing and levelling, next to no one wants a game without those things and just bosses.

Literally wat: the world is FILLED with games with no grinding or minimal grinding to get gearing benefits.
The main reason Blizzard games have grinding is that they sell monthly fees that way easier.
THEY WILL NEVER EXPERIMENT WITH THIS EVEN FOR ONE PATCH to not expose the truth.